POWELL FOR OBAMA: IT'S NOT ABOUT RACE
- Thread starter Jeff Mock
- Start date
For me Obama’s stance on the Second Amendment is a deal breaker. He thinks it’s about hunting and defending your home, in my opinion it’s about the final option for insuring freedom and it was second in the line up for a reason, that being it was trumped in the minds of the founders only by freedom of speech. He and his fellow liberals in the congress will push for a renewed AWB and they’ve learned since the last one, there won’t be the loopholes in this one that were found in the last one. As for not impacting the guns we hunt with…..I use my AR 90% of the time….so I guess in my mind that isn’t a valid argument either.
Mr. Johnson, I thank you for your service but I’m in complete disagreement with you on Obama.
Mr. Johnson, I thank you for your service but I’m in complete disagreement with you on Obama.
Totch94
New member
Quote:
Mr. Johnson, I thank you for your service but I’m in complete disagreement with you on Obama.
+1, I too thank you for your service, however, It seems to me that you are willing to sacrifice freedom for security. And you know how the quote goes, when one is willing to sacrifice one for the other, he is deserving of neither. If you are in the first brigade sent out to confiscate weapons, best of luck to you sir. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Mr. Johnson, I thank you for your service but I’m in complete disagreement with you on Obama.
+1, I too thank you for your service, however, It seems to me that you are willing to sacrifice freedom for security. And you know how the quote goes, when one is willing to sacrifice one for the other, he is deserving of neither. If you are in the first brigade sent out to confiscate weapons, best of luck to you sir. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Tommy Johnson
New member
cjdavis618 if Obama asked me to kill Americans, of course I wouldn’t. And no, to your second question. In the military I must obey orders, but IF I feel that they are unlawful I am obligated not to comply.
Let me finish up with a question for you, what is leading you to believe that martial law is right around the corner?
NE223 and Totch94, thank you for your appreciation.
Tocth94-I find that gun owners will vote one way every election regardless of what else is on the table. The country could go down the tubes and when a different point of view is available they will still focus on guns.
I respect your decision but we will disagree. And it seems to me that you will tolerate having less security for liberal gun rights. Clinton was supposed to send a paddy wagon to pick up our guns to but it never transpired. He had 8 years to do it and the AWB is all that was passed. I don’t support the AWB or any infringements on our rights. But my priorities are elsewhere and my guns are still safe in my gun cabinet where they will be for a very long time.
BTW, I believe there are more service members per capita who own guns than on the outside. I have no data to prove it, but we like guns.
Let me finish up with a question for you, what is leading you to believe that martial law is right around the corner?
NE223 and Totch94, thank you for your appreciation.
Tocth94-I find that gun owners will vote one way every election regardless of what else is on the table. The country could go down the tubes and when a different point of view is available they will still focus on guns.
I respect your decision but we will disagree. And it seems to me that you will tolerate having less security for liberal gun rights. Clinton was supposed to send a paddy wagon to pick up our guns to but it never transpired. He had 8 years to do it and the AWB is all that was passed. I don’t support the AWB or any infringements on our rights. But my priorities are elsewhere and my guns are still safe in my gun cabinet where they will be for a very long time.
BTW, I believe there are more service members per capita who own guns than on the outside. I have no data to prove it, but we like guns.
cjdavis618
New member
Quote:
cjdavis618 if Obama asked me to kill Americans, of course I wouldn’t. And no, to your second question. In the military I must obey orders, but IF I feel that they are unlawful I am obligated not to comply.
Let me finish up with a question for you, what is leading you to believe that martial law is right around the corner?
I never said anything about martial law. I am more concerned with totalitarian rule.
But, since you are now on record that you wouldn't follow his orders, you might be with us then. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I would like to ask a small question to all of you. Based on this premise. Not 30 years ago we "Played a game" well enough to end the cold war by turning Russia into a capitalist society. Do you think it is plausible that the other countries could be playing that game against us to become socialist?
Is it not possible with all of the recent "Coincidences"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
cjdavis618 if Obama asked me to kill Americans, of course I wouldn’t. And no, to your second question. In the military I must obey orders, but IF I feel that they are unlawful I am obligated not to comply.
Let me finish up with a question for you, what is leading you to believe that martial law is right around the corner?
I never said anything about martial law. I am more concerned with totalitarian rule.
But, since you are now on record that you wouldn't follow his orders, you might be with us then. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I would like to ask a small question to all of you. Based on this premise. Not 30 years ago we "Played a game" well enough to end the cold war by turning Russia into a capitalist society. Do you think it is plausible that the other countries could be playing that game against us to become socialist?
Is it not possible with all of the recent "Coincidences"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Tommy Johnson
New member
You didnt use the term martial law but looking at the meaning of martial law it goes along with your question.
Main Entry: martial law
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : the law applied in occupied territory by the military authority of the occupying power
2 : the law administered by military forces that is invoked by a government in an emergency when the civilian law enforcement agencies are unable to maintain public order and safety
Yes cjdavis618 you have me on record saying I would not kill Americans on orders of a president. I really dont know how to debate that issue to be honest lol. Its kinda like asking if I believe he will open the doors to all the prisons when elected. I mean are we serious?
Main Entry: martial law
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : the law applied in occupied territory by the military authority of the occupying power
2 : the law administered by military forces that is invoked by a government in an emergency when the civilian law enforcement agencies are unable to maintain public order and safety
Yes cjdavis618 you have me on record saying I would not kill Americans on orders of a president. I really dont know how to debate that issue to be honest lol. Its kinda like asking if I believe he will open the doors to all the prisons when elected. I mean are we serious?
cjdavis618
New member
Just clarifying. This makes everything look just peachy under his administration.
""ABC News’ Matthew Jaffe Reports: Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.
“Mark my words,” the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. “It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”
“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate,” Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. “And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him - we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.""
About prisons... Well.
It shows in public record that he doesn't let his friends (Criminals) ever go to prison. Instead, he likes the companies they work for to pay millions for their "Good" deeds. Then go free with no responsibility at all for what they have done.
You know; like running a mortgage group into the ground, then letting them advise him on financial policy.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
""ABC News’ Matthew Jaffe Reports: Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.
“Mark my words,” the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. “It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”
“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate,” Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. “And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him - we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.""
About prisons... Well.
It shows in public record that he doesn't let his friends (Criminals) ever go to prison. Instead, he likes the companies they work for to pay millions for their "Good" deeds. Then go free with no responsibility at all for what they have done.
You know; like running a mortgage group into the ground, then letting them advise him on financial policy.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Tommy Johnson
New member
Ok I was way off base then. I thought you were referring to him collecting up everyone's guns. Maybe the 6 month time frame he is talking about is the Middle East is going to test a new president and maybe Russia needs addressed or lack thereof since they are aiding Iran with weapon technologies.
Where does killing Americans come in?
Where does killing Americans come in?
Totch94
New member
Quote:
Tocth94-I find that gun owners will vote one way every election regardless of what else is on the table. The country could go down the tubes and when a different point of view is available they will still focus on guns.
I respect your decision but we will disagree. And it seems to me that you will tolerate having less security for liberal gun rights. Clinton was supposed to send a paddy wagon to pick up our guns to but it never transpired. He had 8 years to do it and the AWB is all that was passed.
T. Johnson,
First, let me remind you that Clinton did have a Republican majority in the House and Senate after 1994 to keep him in check and not allow him to run free spreading his liberal non-sense. B. Hussein Obama will have a possible super majority in the House and Senate and be able to pass whatever legislation his Marxist heart desires.
Second, let me assure you that I am not simply staking my position on one issue. I have a long list of things that I cannot support Barry on. Let me share just a few. I would love to know which ones you do support him on.
He is Pro-Abortion ---- I am not
He believes in redistributing wealth --- I do not
He is against the death penalty --- I am for it
He believes that the 2nd Amendment is flexible at best --- I read it to say: "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"
He believes that taxing small business is good for job creation --- I have had ECON 101 and know it is not
He hangs around with people like Ayers, Wright, Farrakon --- I would not
He believes that teachers should indoctrinate my children about sex and homosexuality --- I refuse to let them
He is for Gay Marriage --- I am not
He believes we should surrender in defeat in Iraq --- I believe we should see it through till the end and win with honor
He says he will cut taxes for 95% of American Families, I know that 40% of American Families pay NO taxes now. This means he will give them a CHECK out of my taxes.
He believes that more government is the solution to everything --- I believe that government is the problem, not the solution.
He believes that we should sign the Kyoto Protocol --- I believe that it is economic death for our country.
He wants me to check the pressure in my tires to increase gas mileage --- I want to tap our domestic petroleum supply
His wife has only one time in her life been proud of her country --- I have never failed to be proud of my country
He believes in reviving the fairness doctrine --- I believe that it is liberal censorship of the First Amendment.
He believes in increasing welfare, food stamps and give aways to fight poverty --- I know that if it would work it would have by now.
He has proposed a trillion dollars in new spending --- I would like to CUT a trillion dollars in spending
He believes in socialized medicine --- I know what the system looks like in Canada.
He believes that we should be more like France in our words, deeds and actions --- I remember who saved their azzes time and again.
You see, Mr. Johnson, I am not the one issue simpleton that you have accused me of being. I have a grasp of the issues and realize that I am a CONSERVATIVE, He is a LIBERAL. We are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I am willing to stand up and face the issues, you and anyone else out there who thinks about voting for this man must also do the same and not hide behind the shelter of "we need change" and lob one liners at those of us who do not believe the hype. You either believe that our country should continue to be a free market capitalist endeavor or it should take a giant leap towards socialism. You either believe that we should let the people make decisions with their own lives, money and futures, or you believe that they will be better served by government deciding for them.
I mean you no disrespect and DO honor your service to our country, but I could not disagree more strongly with your position in this election.
Tocth94-I find that gun owners will vote one way every election regardless of what else is on the table. The country could go down the tubes and when a different point of view is available they will still focus on guns.
I respect your decision but we will disagree. And it seems to me that you will tolerate having less security for liberal gun rights. Clinton was supposed to send a paddy wagon to pick up our guns to but it never transpired. He had 8 years to do it and the AWB is all that was passed.
T. Johnson,
First, let me remind you that Clinton did have a Republican majority in the House and Senate after 1994 to keep him in check and not allow him to run free spreading his liberal non-sense. B. Hussein Obama will have a possible super majority in the House and Senate and be able to pass whatever legislation his Marxist heart desires.
Second, let me assure you that I am not simply staking my position on one issue. I have a long list of things that I cannot support Barry on. Let me share just a few. I would love to know which ones you do support him on.
He is Pro-Abortion ---- I am not
He believes in redistributing wealth --- I do not
He is against the death penalty --- I am for it
He believes that the 2nd Amendment is flexible at best --- I read it to say: "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"
He believes that taxing small business is good for job creation --- I have had ECON 101 and know it is not
He hangs around with people like Ayers, Wright, Farrakon --- I would not
He believes that teachers should indoctrinate my children about sex and homosexuality --- I refuse to let them
He is for Gay Marriage --- I am not
He believes we should surrender in defeat in Iraq --- I believe we should see it through till the end and win with honor
He says he will cut taxes for 95% of American Families, I know that 40% of American Families pay NO taxes now. This means he will give them a CHECK out of my taxes.
He believes that more government is the solution to everything --- I believe that government is the problem, not the solution.
He believes that we should sign the Kyoto Protocol --- I believe that it is economic death for our country.
He wants me to check the pressure in my tires to increase gas mileage --- I want to tap our domestic petroleum supply
His wife has only one time in her life been proud of her country --- I have never failed to be proud of my country
He believes in reviving the fairness doctrine --- I believe that it is liberal censorship of the First Amendment.
He believes in increasing welfare, food stamps and give aways to fight poverty --- I know that if it would work it would have by now.
He has proposed a trillion dollars in new spending --- I would like to CUT a trillion dollars in spending
He believes in socialized medicine --- I know what the system looks like in Canada.
He believes that we should be more like France in our words, deeds and actions --- I remember who saved their azzes time and again.
You see, Mr. Johnson, I am not the one issue simpleton that you have accused me of being. I have a grasp of the issues and realize that I am a CONSERVATIVE, He is a LIBERAL. We are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I am willing to stand up and face the issues, you and anyone else out there who thinks about voting for this man must also do the same and not hide behind the shelter of "we need change" and lob one liners at those of us who do not believe the hype. You either believe that our country should continue to be a free market capitalist endeavor or it should take a giant leap towards socialism. You either believe that we should let the people make decisions with their own lives, money and futures, or you believe that they will be better served by government deciding for them.
I mean you no disrespect and DO honor your service to our country, but I could not disagree more strongly with your position in this election.
Jeff Mock
Active member
Quote:
Tommy Johnson - I have question for you.
If your Commander and Chief (Obama) ordered you to kill Americans. Would you do it?
What if he ordered you to detain people that do not agree with his beliefs?
WOW... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
In my opinion , no matter what Mr Johnson states his beliefs are, to ask a service member, who has had is A&% in the grass, if he'd kill Americans is a bit much, and borders on being disrespectful. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Just because you don't agree with his politics, doesn't give ANYONE the right to question his partiotism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
He deserve's more respect than that...HE HAS EARNED IT!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Tommy Johnson - I have question for you.
If your Commander and Chief (Obama) ordered you to kill Americans. Would you do it?
What if he ordered you to detain people that do not agree with his beliefs?
WOW... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
In my opinion , no matter what Mr Johnson states his beliefs are, to ask a service member, who has had is A&% in the grass, if he'd kill Americans is a bit much, and borders on being disrespectful. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Just because you don't agree with his politics, doesn't give ANYONE the right to question his partiotism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
He deserve's more respect than that...HE HAS EARNED IT!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Quote:
Quote:
Tommy Johnson - I have question for you.
If your Commander and Chief (Obama) ordered you to kill Americans. Would you do it?
What if he ordered you to detain people that do not agree with his beliefs?
WOW... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
In my opinion , no matter what Mr Johnson states his beliefs are, to ask a service member, who has had is A&% in the grass, if he'd kill Americans is a bit much, and borders on being disrespectful. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Just because you don't agree with his politics, doesn't give ANYONE the right to question his partiotism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
He deserve's more respect than that...HE HAS EARNED IT!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I agree!
As to my concern with the Second Amendment.
I’ve observed over the years that a person’s philosophy concerning the right to keep and bear arms as outlined in the Second Amendment is generally a reflection on that person’s overall philosophy concerning individual freedoms.
My fundamental disagreement with Obama is this, I believe the Founding Fathers included the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights as the final option to tyranny. I don’t believe it is there to protect my right to hunt or defend my home. Obama either doesn’t share this vision of what the intent was or he knows full well what the goal of the founders was and is purposefully seeking to subvert it, I find that troubling.
When I see actions of individuals like Obama and Biden which are designed to infringe on one of the basic premises of the Bill of Rights I become concerned about what other liberties they might be willing to sacrifice in the name of national unity or security or whatever else might be the flavor of the week.
I agree, J McCain hasn’t been a stauch supporter of the Second Amendment UNLESS you compare him to Obama and Biden, then he looks like Mr NRA. I opt not to vote for individuals I know are seeking to restrict my rights, I’ll take a chance on the other guy.
.
Quote:
Tommy Johnson - I have question for you.
If your Commander and Chief (Obama) ordered you to kill Americans. Would you do it?
What if he ordered you to detain people that do not agree with his beliefs?
WOW... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
In my opinion , no matter what Mr Johnson states his beliefs are, to ask a service member, who has had is A&% in the grass, if he'd kill Americans is a bit much, and borders on being disrespectful. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Just because you don't agree with his politics, doesn't give ANYONE the right to question his partiotism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
He deserve's more respect than that...HE HAS EARNED IT!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I agree!
As to my concern with the Second Amendment.
I’ve observed over the years that a person’s philosophy concerning the right to keep and bear arms as outlined in the Second Amendment is generally a reflection on that person’s overall philosophy concerning individual freedoms.
My fundamental disagreement with Obama is this, I believe the Founding Fathers included the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights as the final option to tyranny. I don’t believe it is there to protect my right to hunt or defend my home. Obama either doesn’t share this vision of what the intent was or he knows full well what the goal of the founders was and is purposefully seeking to subvert it, I find that troubling.
When I see actions of individuals like Obama and Biden which are designed to infringe on one of the basic premises of the Bill of Rights I become concerned about what other liberties they might be willing to sacrifice in the name of national unity or security or whatever else might be the flavor of the week.
I agree, J McCain hasn’t been a stauch supporter of the Second Amendment UNLESS you compare him to Obama and Biden, then he looks like Mr NRA. I opt not to vote for individuals I know are seeking to restrict my rights, I’ll take a chance on the other guy.
.
cjdavis618
New member
Quote:
Quote:
Tommy Johnson - I have question for you.
If your Commander and Chief (Obama) ordered you to kill Americans. Would you do it?
What if he ordered you to detain people that do not agree with his beliefs?
WOW... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
In my opinion , no matter what Mr Johnson states his beliefs are, to ask a service member, who has had is A&% in the grass, if he'd kill Americans is a bit much, and borders on being disrespectful. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Just because you don't agree with his politics, doesn't give ANYONE the right to question his partiotism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
He deserve's more respect than that...HE HAS EARNED IT!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I never questioned his patriotism and I see his choice in politics. I also am the last person to berate someone in the military. I will thank someone for their service every time I see them in uniform and have several close friends in the Air Force. And I have thanked him and others in the past on this board and others for their service. That stands regardless of politics. I think you are reading into this more than I mean.
With that said... His oath is to protect the country first and foremost - with guidance from the Commander in chief. As with any military member; or civilian for that matter; should it turn out that this country is headed for socialism. The common people may decide once again to stand our ground, I wanted to know where he would stand. That would be for the military in general.
I pray to God every day that this country doesn't get attacked and doesn't fail. But everyday, there is more news that could tip the scales in the wrong direction. I merely wanted to know where his dedication was directed. The country or the controlling leader. I thought that was a fair question. If you want a direct answer, you ask a direct question without double speak.
Such a situation happened during hurricane Katrina and there were people threatened by law enforcement and military with being arrested or shot if they didn't follow gun Confiscation orders. Some reported to have disappeared long after the waters receded. Along with the majority of guns. The sad part is that the few that did obey orders didn't uphold their oath to the country and constitution. In my book they should be tried for treason for the terrible crimes they committed. I can link more than one story where people were beaten to remove their means of protection. So yes it can and most likely would happen in a national crisis.
Look, I knew he was going to say no to both questions. As he should have - and Did - confirm his character and honor to me. His political ideals are much different, and I do have to question some of them as he would of mine. But that is not the reason I asked him those questions. I would surmise that based on his answers, he will have a long military career ahead of him as he clearly states his thoughts and without rhetoric.
Do you realize that recently there was a investigative team put together for the Army? To find out why there have been several murders recently in the US committed by army soldiers. Can I question those soldiers patriotism since they served?
This day and age, if you are not willing to question someone directly, you will likely not know the truth. Based on his answer, I trust he is being genuine. In my book he is a good guy.
If you still feel that I was out of line. Then I apologize to you Tommy. I'm more concerned about our future than my feelings though.
Quote:
Tommy Johnson - I have question for you.
If your Commander and Chief (Obama) ordered you to kill Americans. Would you do it?
What if he ordered you to detain people that do not agree with his beliefs?
WOW... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
In my opinion , no matter what Mr Johnson states his beliefs are, to ask a service member, who has had is A&% in the grass, if he'd kill Americans is a bit much, and borders on being disrespectful. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Just because you don't agree with his politics, doesn't give ANYONE the right to question his partiotism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
He deserve's more respect than that...HE HAS EARNED IT!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I never questioned his patriotism and I see his choice in politics. I also am the last person to berate someone in the military. I will thank someone for their service every time I see them in uniform and have several close friends in the Air Force. And I have thanked him and others in the past on this board and others for their service. That stands regardless of politics. I think you are reading into this more than I mean.
With that said... His oath is to protect the country first and foremost - with guidance from the Commander in chief. As with any military member; or civilian for that matter; should it turn out that this country is headed for socialism. The common people may decide once again to stand our ground, I wanted to know where he would stand. That would be for the military in general.
I pray to God every day that this country doesn't get attacked and doesn't fail. But everyday, there is more news that could tip the scales in the wrong direction. I merely wanted to know where his dedication was directed. The country or the controlling leader. I thought that was a fair question. If you want a direct answer, you ask a direct question without double speak.
Such a situation happened during hurricane Katrina and there were people threatened by law enforcement and military with being arrested or shot if they didn't follow gun Confiscation orders. Some reported to have disappeared long after the waters receded. Along with the majority of guns. The sad part is that the few that did obey orders didn't uphold their oath to the country and constitution. In my book they should be tried for treason for the terrible crimes they committed. I can link more than one story where people were beaten to remove their means of protection. So yes it can and most likely would happen in a national crisis.
Look, I knew he was going to say no to both questions. As he should have - and Did - confirm his character and honor to me. His political ideals are much different, and I do have to question some of them as he would of mine. But that is not the reason I asked him those questions. I would surmise that based on his answers, he will have a long military career ahead of him as he clearly states his thoughts and without rhetoric.
Do you realize that recently there was a investigative team put together for the Army? To find out why there have been several murders recently in the US committed by army soldiers. Can I question those soldiers patriotism since they served?
This day and age, if you are not willing to question someone directly, you will likely not know the truth. Based on his answer, I trust he is being genuine. In my book he is a good guy.
If you still feel that I was out of line. Then I apologize to you Tommy. I'm more concerned about our future than my feelings though.
cjdavis618
New member
One other thing Jeff.
Just because someone is in the Military doesn't mean they are a patriot. Does the name Benedict Arnold ring a bell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Just because someone is in the Military doesn't mean they are a patriot. Does the name Benedict Arnold ring a bell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
azmastablasta
New member
cjdavis,totch & ne223.Very well thought out responses.Your conservatism shines through.
Jeff Mock
Active member
Quote:
One other thing Jeff.
Just because someone is in the Military doesn't mean they are a patriot. Does the name Benedict Arnold ring a bell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
I'd say that the odd's our in our favor here with Tommy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
One other thing Jeff.
Just because someone is in the Military doesn't mean they are a patriot. Does the name Benedict Arnold ring a bell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
I'd say that the odd's our in our favor here with Tommy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
jimanaz
New member
Quote:
My fundamental disagreement with Obama is this, I believe the Founding Fathers included the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights as the final option to tyranny.
Bingo!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
They say this and they say that as to why we don't need this type of weapon or that type of weapon. Their arguments are compelling and substantive as witnessed by some of the comments in this thread. They need a starting point to chip away at the very foundation that this country was built upon. It's my greatest fear that once it starts, it won't stop until the citizens of this country are disarmed and have no choice but to bow to the "chosen one". They hope to turn Americans into a flock of sheep who must helplessly follow the lead of the shepherds, instead of a well armed citizenship who can stand up to tyranny, should the situation arise. The only thing, and I mean the only thing that keeps these elitists from ruling the citizens rather than governing them is right there in our safes, under our beds, on our hips, and in our hands. It's also probably the biggest reason our shores have never been invaded. We're freaking DANGEROUS, and I for one like it that way.
A vote for a politician who supports any modification to the 2nd Amendment is another signature on the death warrent for the USA as the Founding Fathers invisioned it. You may think it could never happen here, but it has happened elsewhere and could happen here. The first step is disarming the citizenship. After that, everything and everyone falls in line.
Tommy, I too thank you for your service, but the trade you are considering is a dangerous one IMO, and I hope you give the implications some serious thought before you cast your ballot.
I don't have any aspirations of becomming a criminal, but if the order comes down to surrender any of my weapons to the government, I will surely become one. One of many. And as we all know, criminals are dangerous.
My fundamental disagreement with Obama is this, I believe the Founding Fathers included the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights as the final option to tyranny.
Bingo!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
They say this and they say that as to why we don't need this type of weapon or that type of weapon. Their arguments are compelling and substantive as witnessed by some of the comments in this thread. They need a starting point to chip away at the very foundation that this country was built upon. It's my greatest fear that once it starts, it won't stop until the citizens of this country are disarmed and have no choice but to bow to the "chosen one". They hope to turn Americans into a flock of sheep who must helplessly follow the lead of the shepherds, instead of a well armed citizenship who can stand up to tyranny, should the situation arise. The only thing, and I mean the only thing that keeps these elitists from ruling the citizens rather than governing them is right there in our safes, under our beds, on our hips, and in our hands. It's also probably the biggest reason our shores have never been invaded. We're freaking DANGEROUS, and I for one like it that way.
A vote for a politician who supports any modification to the 2nd Amendment is another signature on the death warrent for the USA as the Founding Fathers invisioned it. You may think it could never happen here, but it has happened elsewhere and could happen here. The first step is disarming the citizenship. After that, everything and everyone falls in line.
Tommy, I too thank you for your service, but the trade you are considering is a dangerous one IMO, and I hope you give the implications some serious thought before you cast your ballot.
I don't have any aspirations of becomming a criminal, but if the order comes down to surrender any of my weapons to the government, I will surely become one. One of many. And as we all know, criminals are dangerous.
mspingy
New member
As a military veteran, I feel that no one should be given a "free pass" regarding the subject of patriotism or any other subject. In this day, questions always need to be asked and answers need to be given regarding subjects that involve our national interests.
As a former member of the military, I personally can not understand how anyone could possible support a man who has had associations with people who have a proven track record and criminal record involving treasonous activities against this nation.
This is a man (Obama) that I could never trust with the security of this nation.
As a former member of the military, I personally can not understand how anyone could possible support a man who has had associations with people who have a proven track record and criminal record involving treasonous activities against this nation.
This is a man (Obama) that I could never trust with the security of this nation.
Totch94
New member
TJ,
Just a few questions that I would love to hear your answers to:
What specifically do you think that Obama will do to "fix" the country???
Quote:
Ill be a pin cushion on that one, take my 30 round capacity just fix the country.
What specifically do you think Obama will do to give us more "security"???
Quote:
I respect your decision but we will disagree. And it seems to me that you will tolerate having less security for liberal gun rights.
Would "shall not be infringed" be considered "liberal gun rights"???
I am not trying to beat this in the ground or be disrespectful, but I am deeply troubled by your stand. You are a moderator here on this site that is dedicated to preserving our rights to hunt and own firearms. That is a leadership position. You cannot make statements like this and then just say "I support gun rights, but...". There are no if's, and's, or but's about it. You either stand with the 2nd Amendment, or you stand on the side of Sara Brady.
Just a few questions that I would love to hear your answers to:
What specifically do you think that Obama will do to "fix" the country???
Quote:
Ill be a pin cushion on that one, take my 30 round capacity just fix the country.
What specifically do you think Obama will do to give us more "security"???
Quote:
I respect your decision but we will disagree. And it seems to me that you will tolerate having less security for liberal gun rights.
Would "shall not be infringed" be considered "liberal gun rights"???
I am not trying to beat this in the ground or be disrespectful, but I am deeply troubled by your stand. You are a moderator here on this site that is dedicated to preserving our rights to hunt and own firearms. That is a leadership position. You cannot make statements like this and then just say "I support gun rights, but...". There are no if's, and's, or but's about it. You either stand with the 2nd Amendment, or you stand on the side of Sara Brady.