Barnes TSX/TTSX or Berger VLD

I've been using Barnes since 1992. These are the best bullets I've ever used for big game. The longest distance I've had an elk go after being hit with a Barnes is about 10 steps.

I got started with them through an article in a magazine in 1992. The writer was reloading 223 ammo, using various components. He said he was the first in the USA to try the 22cal Barnes. What got my attention was when he wrote that every time a Barnes hit the ballistic gelatin block it would expand so violently that it would knock the other block off the table. No other bullet could do that!

At the time, I had been hunting coyotes for a few years with my trusty Hornet, and I realized that the Hornet is a 'light' cartridge for coyotes. When I started using the Barnes in my Hornet, the number of runners were greatly reduced, and I could see a significant improvement in DRT numbers. That fall, I switched to Barnes in my 270 for big-game and have been thrilled with their accuracy (the TSX and TTSX, not the original X) and on-game performance.

Wicked bullets.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeThe old X's worked ok but, do to bearing surface one had to cut his load back a touch. The new TSX and TTSX are great performers.

Tim,

I agree, except I have a Savage Striker in 308 Win., that
absolutely loves the old X bullet in 130 gr.(I stocked up
before they went away). It shoots them sub-MOA out of a
14" barrel with a 2800 fps MV!
scared.gif
With no signs of
pressure...Well maybe a hint of primer flattening. I have
worked the load back up with the 130 gr. TSX, and I have yet
to prove it is even as accurate. The new bullet does kill
just as well, but I haven't found the magic load combo yet
to go sub-MOA. It is about 1 MOA, which is plenty
good for 250 yard shots, which is about my limit with a
bolt action pistol. Now the TSX and the TTSX bullets do
perform well in other rifles. I have an off the topic
question for Barnes bullet shooters. Do you have a more
difficult time finding a good load for the TTSX bullets
when transitioning from the TSX bullet?

I have a friend that seems to be having issues getting
the TTSX bullets to shoot well for him, and I was wondering
if it was him, or the bullets. For me, I have a 80 gr. 6mm
TTSX shooting a bit under 1 MOA in a 6mm Rem. and I have
a 95 gr. TTSX shooting under 1 MOA in my 6.8 SPC. But I
have only transitioned 2 rifles to the TTSX bullets, so
I was wondering if I am just lucky or is the general consensus
the TTSX bullets are as easy or not to get accurate loads
over the TSX bullets. Intuitively I would think the TTSX
would shoot better than the TSX bullets, but stranger things
have happened.

Squeeze
 
First/foremost and to noone in particular, I'm a Barnes fan. Especially in the smaller calibers. I've only shot one buck with the Berger VLD.

I have an honest question here. My question which I expect most to ignore, especially the Barnes guys (grin), is how many here have actually USED the VLD on game to form their opinion? That means much more to me than just theory, conjecture, and opinions formed by somebody on something they've never used.

I've used a lot of the Barnes bullets and only one VLD. I do shoot with an open mind and am going to run the VLD's exclusively this season in 2 states and in (2)243AI's and 25-06AI. I figure with a few more VLD kills under my belt I'll be able to form a fair opinion on what I think of them and the results I get, as compared to just guessing.....
 
the barnes are very accurat rounds in my 7mm i just dont like the fact that if you dont hit bone the blood trail dries up because of the small exit wound. not saying they arent good bullets, they do exactly what they are suppose to. the vld are just a target bullet. long ogive and thin skin. they grenade when the enter to cause alot of damage. ive used alot of the vld bullets in my 223 on coyotes and rabbits. they do a nasty job on dogs. i couldnt get a good accurate load worked up for my 7 in time to take it last year and ive just stopped since i saw how my amax round acted. ill stick with my amax for anything up to elk size game.
 
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Originally Posted By: Mike BWhy is it the junior members all KNOW that the Barnes TSX and it's iterations are junk, but the senior members say the opposite?!?!?!? LOL!!!!

You do realize that ranking on this forum has nothing to do with hunting/shooting experience right?

I happen to be a Barnes fan and because my interest in internet forums is seasonal at best you will see that I'm ranked as a new or junior member or whatever this site ranks me, but that is a rating of time on here not real world exp or accomplishments etc.

Also note that I would buck your observed trend being a new member that likes Barnes.

With that covered I can say Barnes are great bullets and I've used em on lots of animals/calibers/velocities and always had great results, although in the heavier weight bullets I usually get better accuracy out of my other stand-by, Nosler partition. Can't compare the VLD since I haven't used it.
 
I've used the old barnes XLCs in a 25-06 and 300 WM, not impressed to say the least on mule deer here in Oregon. My 100g XLC left a hole in teh shoulder the size of a pieplate, while my dads 165g XLC lost 3 of the 4 petals and penciled through his deer, had to shoot it again.

On top of that, trying to find an accurate/consistent load was a PITA.

I vowed to never shoot barnes again for various reason. There expensive as $hit for one, there BCs suck, they weren't accurate/consistent for me, I dont need a bullet that acts like a FMJ, if I remember correctly, there illegal for a reason...

I have also tried Berger VLDs, obviously since I am a LR shooter/hunter. These also get mixed opinions/review from me.

I've shot them in quite a few calibers, and have experience with the 7mm 168 and 180g and 30 cal 210g on deer from a 7 RM and 300 RUM, ranges from 100-625 yards. The 168 and 210 were extremely fragile. The 168 blew up on one of my bucks at 625 on the shoulder and had to be shot again. The 180 the following year penciled through at 100 yards. The 210g from the 300 RUM was also showing signs of violent expansion as it left a softball exit in another buck at about 200.

What people dont realize is these 2 bullets couldn't be further apart from each other in how they react. VLDs are some of the most explosive bullets I have seen, but yet other times they still pencil through. Barnes typically dont expand much, but I did have that 8" hole in the shoulder of my buck.

Bottom line, I wouldn't use either of these bullets again, sure as hel not Barnes...I"ll use the VLDs in a target/LR rifle or LR coyote rifle if need be, but the AMAX in the calibers I have wins hands down for me in price and performance.

IMO, the best all around, short/long range bullet is the AB. Its not to expensive, it holds up at closer ranges in your magnums, it still expands enough at LR to ensure quick clean kills, they are usually very accurate, they have high BCs for strictly "hunting bullets", for up and out to about 600 yards, gimme an AB and I'll kill anything I want and have confidence everytime. Past 600, gimme something with an AMAX and watch it die everytime as well...
 
i have used to 87gr VLD on several coyote this year out of my 243wssm. small entrance holes and softball size exits. Had kill shots from 200 yards out to 478 yards

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this is the same gun i am taking to Alaska. Not worried about bears my Guide/friend is taking a 338-378 mag. I am more worried about if the TTSX will even expand at 400-500 yards on a caribou or if the VLD will splash at that range out of a .243.
I have my 87gr VLD at 3320fps at the muzzle so i have the speed. Was just throwing this out there to see what bullet would be best. My dad will be taking a 270WSM which i know either bullet will be fine in.
 
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You'll definately wanna slip that VLD behind the shoulder on a caribou if hes inside I'm gonna say at least 200-250 yards, just to make sure. Like I said, a 168 VLD at 2950fps splashed on the shoulder of a small forked horn muley at 625 yards.

And yes I would worry about the TTSX expanding at 500 yards. That is one tough bullet, and its not going very fast at 500 yards to initiate expansion.

Most VLDs I've shot in wet newspaper at 100 yards hold about 25% of there weight, and are a mangled piece at the end. This is not a bullet you want to use at close range and hit bone with IMO and IME.

Hel, I love how everyone talks soo much crap about NBTs. They usually hold 40-50% of there weight in the wet newspaper at 100 yards. They ARE NOT designed for close range hunting, let alone hitting shoulder bone at that...With that said, the NBT is my favorite antelope and deer bullet. I"ve never had one not fully penetrate and usually be DRT to boot, if it did go far, you had a blood trail a blind person could follow.

Common sense can go along ways in bullet selection.
 
Squeeze ,

I can not answer your TSX to TTSX change over. I set up one rifle (.223AI )with 62 TSX and the other (.300wsm) with 180 MRX (the really expensive TTSX).

Tim
 
yotehunter243,

It took me a while to dtermine for sure that you were intending to use a 243 on caribou......defintely go with the Barnes TTSX.....a caribou is usually twice the size of most white tails.....The TTSX tends to open a little easier than the TSX......

The splash bullets are for coyotes....yes, they may kill a caribou but why not use a bullet designed for bigger game?

The TSX and TTSX don't over penetrate as much as some say. I have a small collection of recovered TSXs from my 300 WSM 180 gr loads and my 375H&H 270 gr loads. All from very large bull moose. Two 180gr TSXs from 80 yard neck shot that never hit bone and never dropped the moose...perfect 4 petal performance. A hundred yard shot with 270 gr through lungs of another bull, recovered under hide on opposite side.

I really like TSX in my large rifles but haven't got loads figured out for my 22-25 or 243.....any ideas?

I hope you enjoy your caribou hunt as a prime bull is a beautiful and elegant animal. They are not very tenacious of life and react very little to most shots.
 
I don't know if they can be had by the reloader yet, but the Fed Fusion seem to be a good hunting bullet. Bought some for the wife to try in her .243 win. She killed 4 deer with 95 gr and we recovered 2 bullets. All 4 deer were shot at an average of 150 yards. The nicely mushroomed pills weighed in at 92 and 94gr IIRC.
 
thanks guys. My other 2 choice of Bullets were the 90 gr Nosler Accubond or the 85gr Hornady Interbond. My gun doesnt really like 90gr as well as 85gr but they are worth a try. From what i have read on both of them they are they same bullet. Both retain 90% of there weight and expand at long range. I hate to have to go back thru load development when i have a sub 1/2MOA load with thos VLDs worked up. So many choices haha.
 
Have you tried the 90g AB yet??

Thats what I would opt for. I cant see them not shooting at least 1 MOA which is more then enough out to 600 yards still on deer size game. They will not retain 90% of there weight either, more like 60-65% which is a good balance.

In my experience, The ABs have been a lot easier to find a load for then Hornady SSTs which are the same design.

Try some H4350 or H4831 with the 90g AB and I'm betting one of them will give promising results.
 
Originally Posted By: VernAK
I really like TSX in my large rifles but haven't got loads figured out for my 22-25 or 243.....any ideas?

Vern,

Have you tried the 6mm 80 gr. TTSX bullet? I am loading it
for a 6mm Rem. custom barrel(24") on a Savage 16 action, and
I am getting average groups under 1 MOA, in ideal conditions.
IIRC, the load is Vihtavuori N-160 with a CCI LR Benchrest
primer, in a Winchester case. The bullet performed well on
antelope in the high plains winds of Wyoming. The on game
performance was impressive, too.

For the 22-250, I don't shoot mine for game, unless one finds
P Dogs tasty.
grin.gif
So no help there.

Squeeze
 
Squeeze, since the TTSX bullets came out we have shot them through a 243 Win, 260 Rem, 6.5 Grendel and a 300 WSM and they all shot the TTSX bullets a little better than the TSX bullets.

Over the years we have killed quite a few deer with Nosler Partitions, Nosler E-Tips, Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets. On most of these deer there was a small entrance hole and a small exit hole. On most of these deer the tissue and or bone damage that we found when we skinned and butchered the deer was very impressive. After seeing the small exit holes I didn't really think I was going to find that much damage on the inside of the deer.
 
Thanks Squeeze.

I'll get some N160 to try.

I like tough bullets as my targets vary in size quite a lot. If calling coyotes and a large male wolf shows up, the game has changed as you now have a varmint the size of a good doe deer. The harder bullets will still do well on coyotes although not as dramatic as splash bullets. Also, the splash bullets tend to make a mess of lynx and I'd like to avoid that.

I have taken a grizzly with that 243 but that's not the norm.
 
Originally Posted By: jlh321I have shot tsx for a couple of seasons for deer and antelope and would not recommend them.Tsx act like a full metal jacket small hole in small hole out,I will be shooting berger vld next season. ok small in small out but what was between those holes? most the animals i have killed the vitals looked like jello. i love the bergers for longer range but the deer i shot with the 190 gr. at 75 yds was not fun to clean afterwards.
 
VernAK lets hear aboutt he grizz with the 243 thats sounds like an interesting story. IM not afraid to shoot my wssm at one i Do have 11 rounds in my Mag. hahaha
 
Not much of a story on the grizzly......I was out varmint hunting in the fall and decided to visit my buddy on his construction job. He asked If I had a rifle as a grizzly was chasing his surveyors around. They had taken to using an ATV but the bear even chased that.

I only had my 243 with 58gr Hornadys in it.....when we drove down the survey trail, the bear came out to greet us and as it turned its head, I shot right behind his ear. End of story.
 
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