AZ US Border Patrol Stops Man, Who is in the Right? YOUR Call!

Failure to provide a valid drivers license for one, proof of insurance in most states is also required. He was looking to push a few buttons and he succeeded. The border patrol called the Arizona highway patrol and they oversaw the arrest, he got what he wanted, an altercation.
Lets see where this goes from here. The coast is patrolled by the Coast Guard, they also do not need a warrant of any kind to stop someone in a boat, board it and conduct a search, they euphemistically refer to them as safety inspections, tons of drugs and more than a few illegal's have been picked up in just this manner. I have had my Vehicle searched both going into Canada and also at the Californian border.
Not to mention here in Oregon during hunting season, when they used to have check points. I'm not saying that he may not have a valid point, just that he could have handled the situation in a more diplomatic fashion and the outcome would have been much different, but I also think he knew that going in.
 
Oh, there's huge drug problems all over the NW. Portland pretty much allows heroin use on the streets, neeedle exchange programs, etc. Down here it's more meth, which is no better for society. I've been a victim of those crankers a time or two myself, sadly for them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I just don't believe that the solution is setting up random checkpoints 100 miles from the border and demanding American citizens to "show me ze papers".
I was just pointing out that probably 75% of the US population lives within 100 miles of "the border", legally defined.

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.




Now, I'm just a dumb Idaho cowboy, but I think I can see the intent of that. I'm as willing to surrender that right as I am to surrender the rest of them.


But I've said enough, you get my take on it, I'm sure.
Doesn't mean I'm right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
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We ask for illegal activity to be stopped and then ask the persons we task with this job to walk a razors edge while doing it.



You hit the nail on the head with that one. Mexicans yell at BP saying they are being harrassed because they are brown. White people yell at BP saying why are you bothering me I'm white. No matter what, LE is the loser because all knowing half-wits with too much time on their hands would rather harrass a law enforcement officer than spend 10 seconds answering a couple of questions at a checkpoint. It's real simple. Are you a United States Citizen? Yes. Is there contraband in your vehicle? No. Then you move on with your life.

I didn't watch the whole clip but did Pastor Steve mention that a K9 alerted to his vehicle? A K9 alert is probable cause to search both federally and in the state of Arizona. Everything he did after that point was failing to comply with lawful orders. I wondered why the Agents were so persistent that he go to secondary inspection while watching the clip but then I did some searching and both the news report and a DPS report mentioned the K9 alert. Also, why didn't he file a complaint with DPS (who were the ones primarily responsible for tuning him up) and instead put up a youtube clip against the BP.

Here's food for thought. These agents, and all law enforcement, are tasked under oath with protecting you, why make their lives more difficult? From what I've seen from all of these checkpoint fueds "constitutionalist" is becoming a new word for anarchist. If you don't like being bothered by law enforcement fine....enjoy your terrorists, drugs, and criminals. I'm sure they won't slit your throat when you tell them that you support their rights to not be bothered by law enforcement.

For more information look into INA 287, the 1976 supreme court decision in U.S. vs. Martinez-Fuerte, and keep in mind that even the dreaded (by law enforcement) 9th circuit court upholds the legality of BP checkpoints.

Ever notice how none of these lawsuits and "constitutionalist" youtube sensations never go anywhere? There's a good reason. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Nate
 
Now, I'm just a dumb Idaho cowboy, but I think I can see the intent of that. I'm as willing to surrender that right as I am to surrender the rest of them.


But I've said enough, you get my take on it, I'm sure.
Doesn't mean I'm right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



Your not wrong, and I hope I didn't imply that, most people forget that when you engage in certain activities, such as applying for a drivers license, hunting license, etcetera, the rules change and part of the agreement when accepting those documents or engaging in those activities are the possibilities of interaction with a form of law enforcement, and a certain amount of cooperation from both sides.
And when you start acting in a suspicious manner, whether by design or out of a guilty conscience, red flags start going up in the minds of the officers involved, hence probable cause. This can be true from both a state and also a federal level.
Right or wrong, I can't say, above my pay grade. This is why we have the Supreme Court.


It is my opinion that this is just what the individual wanted to happen, so as to make his point.

From here it will be his word against the officers involved, plus the tapes from both sides, before a court of law.
 
IMO the guy is an activist, no matter what his job description says. I also know a lot of the church's down South side with illegal immigration. I'm not sure of what his agenda is other than maybe some constitutionalists definition of the 4 Amendment is. I think the guy will lose and the Courts will side with the Border Patrol, right or wrong. The guy obviously set out to provoke and be as obnoxious as he could be. Here in WA, you have to follow the orders of a LEO whether they are right or not, failing to do so is obstruction. The ultimate right or wrong is left up to the Courts.
 
OK, now this makes more sense.

While it is definitely the same man--I stand politely corrected, thank you Crazy Horse--these were two separate incidents, different stops at different checkpoints on different days.

Here is his website.

Does he perhaps have a wee bit of an agenda here?

http://www.truebornsons.com/

Tempe pastor says border agents stopped, beat him
By JJ Hensley - Apr. 17, 2009 07:00 PM
The Arizona Republic
What started as a business trip to San Diego has turned Tempe resident Steven Anderson into online crusader as his emotional video detailing his detention and abuse at the hands of Border Patrol agents and state Department of Public Safety officers has made its way around the Internet.

Anderson has a history of run-ins with authorities, several of which he has chronicled on youtube.

In the most recent video, both agencies say they are conducting internal investigations into an incident that took place Tuesday night at a checkpoint on Interstate 8 about 70 miles east of Yuma.
According to Anderson's video, which has been viewed more than 100,000 times since it was posted on youtube.com on Wednesday, the trouble started when he refused to consent to Border Patrol agents searching his car.

“I have the right to travel in this country without being stopped and searched and grilled and interrogated,” Anderson said. The 27-year-old is a pastor at Faithful Word Baptist Church.

Laura Boston, a Border Patrol agent from the Yuma sector, said a K-9 unit alerted officers that drugs or people could be concealed inside Anderson's car, giving the federal officers probable cause to search the vehicle. Anderson refused to move his car or roll down his windows, Boston said.

Anderson, skeptical that the dog detected anything, refused the search, setting of a 90-minute standoff that wasn't resolved until agents broke out the windows of Anderson's car and took him to the ground forcefully.

Anderson said he required 11 stitches to his face, and that he was shocked repeatedly with a Taser while he was lying prone on the ground.

Boston said Border Patrol agents called in DPS officers after Anderson was blocking a lane of traffic, and that DPS officers were carrying the Tasers.

Bart Graves, a DPS spokesman, said the department is conducting an internal investigation but that preliminary reports indicated the officers followed proper procedure.

Anderson said it was Border Patrol agents who were angry with him for refusing to consent to the search, and they used the most force after he was taken from his car.

“Why the violence? Why the excessive brutal force? I think it was just to punish me because I didn't like the things I said to them,” Anderson said. “I told them, ‘no.' I stood my ground. So they decided to punish me by brutalizing me.”

Anderson said his attorney entered a not-guilty plea at a court proceeding on Friday where he was arraigned on two misdemeanor counts of resisting a lawful order.

DPS also cited a 1976 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that upheld the constitutionality of checkpoints near border areas, and that the stop on Interstate 8 is in compliance with the law.

Anderson said the issue was now the force with which Border Patrol agents and DPS officers enforced that law.

“What I did not comply with was being interrogated or searched. Does that 1976 Supreme Court case give them the right to beat the [beeep] out of somebody?” Anderson asked. “What they did to me was totally unnecessary. They're not even claiming I fought back.”

Anderson said he plans on meeting with attorneys Monday to explore his legal options.

In the past several months, Anderson has posted several youtube videos in which he confronts authorities.

In February, he posted a video showing an encounter he claims was at a checkpoint at the New Mexico border. He keeps his windows rolled up. He questions the agents why he's being stopped.

In March, he shot a video entitled “Another Cop Harrasses me for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON *Minnesota” (sic).

In January, he posted another video shot at Sky Harbor International Airport. He walks up to a Phoenix police officer and ask him about his machine gun. When the officer replies that it's none of my business, Anderson says, “It's none of my business? Don't you work for me since I'm a citizen of Phoenix and of the United States? … How would you feel is somebody walked up to your car with a machine gun? Huh? You don't want to answer me?”
 
The guy is a troublemaker.

He rolled up to the Border Patrol checkpoint, and IMMEDIATELY began to NOT COOPERATE. The very first thing he was "guilty" of was "sabataging" a Federal Law Enforcement Operation, and then failing to comply with the instruction of a Law Enforcement Officer.

This was obvious planned, staged, and recorded for his YOU-TUBE home page on which you will find ALL of his recordings:

http://www.youtube.com/user/sanderson1611
 
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No matter what, LE is the loser because all knowing half-wits with too much time on their hands would rather harrass a law enforcement officer than spend 10 seconds answering a couple of questions at a checkpoint. It's real simple. Are you a United States Citizen? Yes. Is there contraband in your vehicle? No. Then you move on with your life.

I didn't watch the whole clip but did Pastor Steve mention that a K9 alerted to his vehicle? Nate



I wonder how it would have turned out if the agent in the video had been professional and just asked those two questions to begin with instead of getting all puffed up because the driver wouldn't roll his window all the way down.

As for the K9 alerting to the car, that was on a subsequent stop and I highly doubt it happened, since nothing was found in the search. The pastor asked to see the dog "alert" to the car and the agents refused to show him.

If illegal immigration wasn't such a joke in this country, maybe I could sympathize with these agents. But brandishing a weapon (was that a collapsible baton?) in an attempt to intimidate a citizen, and beating and tazing a citizen who isn't intimidated, while illegals roam freely (Yes, I can show you where to look right now), does nothing for the "jack booted thug" image that many citizens have of federal officers in this country.

I know not all LEOs are like this (see link below), and I'm not saying this pastor is right. But he does have a point in the escalating amount of control being forced upon law abiding citizens in this country.

Example of professionalism in the face of an idiot:
 
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Yes Java, the guy does have an agenda, no doubt. But the agents taking the bait is what is most disturbing.



Oh, I agree. And that is part of what makes this such an interesting case to me.

Like most male Conservatives, I tend to see things as clear cut, in black and white. This is a rare occasion where I'm seeing lots of grey.

That said, I would like to see the footage of him getting his head all scrapped up. I am curious to see what preceeded that happening.
 
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I am curious to see what preceeded that happening.



I imagine more of the same, except they "one-upped" him with the dog. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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I wonder how it would have turned out if the agent in the video had been professional and just asked those two questions to begin with instead of getting all puffed up because the driver wouldn't roll his window all the way down.



You can wonder all you want. I know how this would have turned out if the guy had pulled up to the point and rolled down his window like every other law abiding citizen did. You think this guy would have reacted better to a different demeanor?!? Really? You don't think he was looking to cause problems? What was unprofessional? They asked him to roll down his window, and he refused. They continued to attempt to get him to comply. Are leo's supposed to sweet talk and coerce uncooperative subjects into complying? C'mon, they have a job to do and if they let people walk all over them nothing will get done and criminals will run things. Our job isn't to sweet talk you it's to take care of crime. By the way, the attitude your talking about is part of the reason we have the problems with illegals that we do. We have to coddle them and not offend anyone. That attitude has turned this into a game and a joke.

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As for the K9 alerting to the car, that was on a subsequent stop and I highly doubt it happened, since nothing was found in the search.



When you are talking about subsequent stops and multiple videos of the same guy I think he's the problem and looking to instigate things. I can't believe I have to explain this on a coyote hunting site but here goes nothing. A dogs nose is very, very sensitive. They can smell drugs on money that has been transported with drugs, small amounts of narcotics in a gas tank, and residual drugs (i.e. if dope has been smoked in the vehicle or by the person if he hasn't changed clothes and washed). The same goes for the scent of illegal aliens. I don't think it's a stretch to say that this guy smoked dope in the car or rubbed some "shake" into the carpet to stir up trouble. The last thing a K9 handler would do is fake an alert. Especially considering the number of cameras there are at permanent checkpoints. They would lose their dog and job amongst other things. They are also very sensitive about the possibility of creating bad case law (supreme court). They have a good thing going and they know it. They wouldn't jeopardize that just to mess with this idiot.

There are enough of these guys running around causing trouble to keep agents very well trained on what they can and can't do. As briliant as he thinks he is he isn't the first and he won't be the last.

Again, the BP didn't taze the guy. That was DPS.

Nate
 
Rumer has it the officer in this video was repremanded for that verbal judo thing.....yes crazy I know, but I seen it on a tv program along time ago. It used the video as an example because the LEO's cool demeanor towards the "idot" escalated the situation.

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Quote:
Example of professionalism in the face of an idiot:




One word: Wow!



 
I've been stopped at an interior checkpoint North of El Paso, waaay out in the middle of nowhere, and had no problem.

Having been in law enforcement all of my adult career, I know enough to roll down my window, answer any questions, and go on my way....But, I would never voluntarily allow a search of my vehicle or person either..

Certainly, this guy was trying to instigate an Ego-Syntonic situation where he was hoping to get the officers to commit a gross violation of his rights, so he could post it..and he almost succeeded... Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed..

I have a feeling the eventually, this guy will get his due, in one form or another....his kind always do...
 
It was a setup by the pastor to purposely act uncooperative before he stopped at the check point. That is evident when he began video taping the incident before his vehicle stopped. Disorderly conduct is a violation and the pastor certainly displayed that in his own video. The pastor got what he deserved.
 
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