Abortion----Politics

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It was a yes or no question. Real simple. Are we going to get a straight answer?


I gave you a perfectly good answer. If you don’t want to accept it that’s your choice.
 
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If you don't believe in abortion then by all means don't have one. Don't tell me I can't do what is legal and in my best interests because you don't approve. You don't like people telling you what you can and can't do with your guns. Why is it O.K. to tell a women what she can and can't do with her own body.

I don't think people should be allowed to get so %$%$#@%$ fat, or smoke for that matter. It is a disgrace to God to treat his body like that. It is tatamount to suicide which is I believe is looked down on by God. But until they outlaw twinkies I guess I am just going to have to deal with it.



I'll pose the same question to you that Rimmy avoided twice. If a law was passed that made it legal for a parent to butcher their five year old child, would you support it? Doesn't a person have the "right" to make such a decision, if it in their best interests? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



You're dealing in speculation. You're assuming a law like that would get passed. But for kicks let's enter your fantasy world. I would have to assume that since a law like that was put into place there was a reason behind it. Would I support it? I would have to understand why it was being written into law. I would probably vote against it. But again if it came up there is probably a good reason. Would I kill my 5 year old? Can't see a why I would so no. Would I encourage other people to? Again probably not. If it is legal they can make up their own mind and deal with the consequences in this life and the afterworld.

Now let's get back to reality. A 5 year old is not a 1 month, 2 month old fetus that is the product of rape now is he. A fetus is not an individual self sustaining being is it?

How is it so many people on here want to keep their guns so they can protect themselves and kill another human. What's the difference between killing a 30yr old human to protect yourself and your property and killing a fetus in to potect your health and welfare? If you're going to play that game you don't need your guns because murder is murder. You can't have it both ways. You either believe it is ok to take a life or you don't.
 
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A fetus is not an individual self sustaining being is it?





Neither is my 4 1/2 year old son, but I wouldn't rip him from his bed, pierce his skull and suck his brain out.

Just so you know, this sickens me to even write or think of how the procedure is done, but I refuse to sterilize it to take the "ugly" away.
 
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No, not quite.

Why is stealing illegal? Because it means that you have taken something from someone against their will. You have violated their right to their property. Very simple, very clear. No religion involved nor required.





When a child is aborted, their right to life as outlined in the Declaration has been violated. That alone should be enough to end the argument. It's no accident that our founding documents WERE based on Christianity. That is why the Ten Commandments are displayed in courtrooms, as our laws are based on them. If someone chooses not to believe in the Ten Commandments, that's their choice, but if those laws are broken there are still consequences. I don't see anyone here advocating a theocracy.
 
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Those of you who want abortion banned are you also against birth control? Are you against sex education? I would gladly see abortion replaced by other means but don’t think it should be banned in all cases.



I too would prefer people not have to make the decision. But it is a personal decision that people should have the right to make. God will judge it's not someone elses job to do it in his stead. We have been warned.


So in the same token if I was to want to walk around shooting people.That would be my personal decision.Murder is murder.There should be a law against all murder.Your saying somebody should have the right to murder someone. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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Now let's get back to reality. A 5 year old is not a 1 month, 2 month old fetus that is the product of rape now is he. A fetus is not an individual self sustaining being is it?

A fetus,1 month,2 month,5 year old are all human beings and have a right to live.Period amen.
 
red,, the distinction with your question comes down to"when is a person a person?"

In this country, legally, it is after they are born, not before. Mostly, there have been some cases that fuzzed this up a bit, but by & large that's how it is.

So if anyone seriously proposed a law like that, what they would be doing, as defined by our laws, would be to attempt to legalize murder.

With an abortion, the person isn't, just yet. So legally it is not considered a murder.

That's the distinction & it's why such a law will never pass here, which makes the question & comparison irrelevant. It won't happen, period, so why argue about it?

People who fundamentally oppose abortion believe that you are a person once conceived. People who do not believe that you are a person once born. I think that unless & until those people change their views on that, you'll have this gulf that won't be crossed.
 
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One problem.Everybody has to answer to god, who is above any human laws.His laws is above any other law in any country.Abortion is against gods wishes.


Then by all means don’t have one.


I won't and nobody else should either as murder is wrong.
 
the law is what the law is, and right now that is that abortion is legal. Period. Sorry, but that's where we are.

If you want to change that, it's going to take a lot of time. It's going to take convincing a lot of people to change their thoughts, feelings & beliefs.

Well, if you want to do that then you have to be effective at doing it. If you think going around hollering "gods will" & quoting scripture is effective, think again. If it was, this would have been changed long ago. It is effective with people who share your beliefs, and those are not the people you need to convince.
 
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If you don't believe in abortion then by all means don't have one. Don't tell me I can't do what is legal and in my best interests because you don't approve. You don't like people telling you what you can and can't do with your guns. Why is it O.K. to tell a women what she can and can't do with her own body.

I don't think people should be allowed to get so %$%$#@%$ fat, or smoke for that matter. It is a disgrace to God to treat his body like that. It is tatamount to suicide which is I believe is looked down on by God. But until they outlaw twinkies I guess I am just going to have to deal with it.



I'll pose the same question to you that Rimmy avoided twice. If a law was passed that made it legal for a parent to butcher their five year old child, would you support it? Doesn't a person have the "right" to make such a decision, if it in their best interests? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



You're dealing in speculation. You're assuming a law like that would get passed. But for kicks let's enter your fantasy world. I would have to assume that since a law like that was put into place there was a reason behind it. Would I support it? I would have to understand why it was being written into law. I would probably vote against it. But again if it came up there is probably a good reason. Would I kill my 5 year old? Can't see a why I would so no. Would I encourage other people to? Again probably not. If it is legal they can make up their own mind and deal with the consequences in this life and the afterworld.

Now let's get back to reality. A 5 year old is not a 1 month, 2 month old fetus that is the product of rape now is he. A fetus is not an individual self sustaining being is it?

How is it so many people on here want to keep their guns so they can protect themselves and kill another human. What's the difference between killing a 30yr old human to protect yourself and your property and killing a fetus in to potect your health and welfare? If you're going to play that game you don't need your guns because murder is murder. You can't have it both ways. You either believe it is ok to take a life or you don't.



It wasn't that long ago that a partial birth abortion would have been considered speculation. Now, it is reality, not "fantasy". There is no doubt that the child can survive outside the womb- because it IS outside the womb. Then comes the cruel, sharp jab, and after the screaming and thrashing ends another innocent life is snuffed out- all under the guise of the mother's "health" when in reality the mother's "health" can equate to the mother's "inconvenience". It was once speculation to consider offing old folks, because they can be such a burden. Who's next- retards? blacks? Jews? You want to compare a "fetus" to the dirtbag who wants to break into my home. Yes, I do have the right to take his life, because he is threatening the rights of me and my family. If the difference isn't obvious to you, then you sir are the one in the fantasy world. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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If you don't believe in abortion then by all means don't have one. Don't tell me I can't do what is legal and in my best interests because you don't approve. You don't like people telling you what you can and can't do with your guns. Why is it O.K. to tell a women what she can and can't do with her own body.


So if it is in your best interest its ok to murder some poor inocent child /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gifThats exactly why we need certain laws as some people will murder,rape,molest children if they legaly can.I don't like people telling me what to do with my guns because I'am not murdering people with my guns.A woman that has a abortion is murdering someone.Big diffrence. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif
 
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It's no accident that our founding documents WERE based on Christianity. That is why the Ten Commandments are displayed in courtrooms, as our laws are based on them. If someone chooses not to believe in the Ten Commandments, that's their choice, but if those laws are broken there are still consequences. I don't see anyone here advocating a theocracy.


Is there a statute that requires you to honor your father and mother? Is there a statute that stops you from having any other gods before you? What about keeping the Sabbath? While there are parallels between some of the 10 commandments and our laws they are not the basis for our laws.
 
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No, not quite.

Why is stealing illegal? Because it means that you have taken something from someone against their will. You have violated their right to their property. Very simple, very clear. No religion involved nor required.

If you tell me we need to pass a law "because it's against god's will", I'll tell you to stuff it & keep on hiking. We do not have a state religion.

Not everyone subject to our laws is a christian. All people do not believe in the 10 commandments, nor any other part of the bible, yet the laws apply to all equally.

When I said that people will simply shut down on the subject with you, I mean it. I'm one of them. I simply have no interest in drafting legislation based on what someone believes god wants, nor what it says in any particular religious book.

Why? Because then you have the problem over who's scripture to use. Who's interpretation of it to use. Who's belief to use. For example, if it's OK to pass laws based on biblical scripture, then it is perfectly OK to do the same based on the koran.

You want that? I [beeep] sure don't.

Legally & legislatively this is a secular nation. It's people are free to pursue any faith they individually choose, even none at all. Its govt is not free to force religion on people in the form of laws.

I have no problem with religious people in govt. It's entirely appropriate that their faith & values guide their decisions. It is not appropriate that they should force laws on us with no basis other than those beliefs.



Well said.
 
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red,, the distinction with your question comes down to"when is a person a person?"

In this country, legally, it is after they are born, not before. Mostly, there have been some cases that fuzzed this up a bit, but by & large that's how it is.

So if anyone seriously proposed a law like that, what they would be doing, as defined by our laws, would be to attempt to legalize murder.

With an abortion, the person isn't, just yet. So legally it is not considered a murder.

That's the distinction & it's why such a law will never pass here, which makes the question & comparison irrelevant. It won't happen, period, so why argue about it?

People who fundamentally oppose abortion believe that you are a person once conceived. People who do not believe that you are a person once born. I think that unless & until those people change their views on that, you'll have this gulf that won't be crossed.



Science and common sense tells us life begins at conception. If further evidence is needed one only has to look at children who have been born several months premature and gone on to live long, productive lives. Consider also those children who actually SURVIVED an attempted abortion- and carried the permanent scars inflicted by a heartless butcher out to make some cash, also leading productive lives. The subject may be "fuzzy" in the court system, but it's really black and white. Or, life and DEATH.
 
To even allow abortion is outragious.You say don't bring god into this, but you must as god makes every one of us and nobody has that right to take a person's life whether its legal or not.Its sick and very sad that murder is allowed in this country at all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif
 
"Yes, I do have the right to take his life, because he is threatening the rights of me and my family. If the difference isn't obvious to you, then you sir are the one in the fantasy world. "

Why do you have the right to take another's life?
 
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