One Cooper or Two Savages

Originally Posted By: Tim Neitzke
A Cooper " plastic" stock is not the same a JUNK "plastic" stock that comes on a Steven 200 or a Rem SPS for that matter.


Do you happen to know whos stock Cooper does use???
 
2much, you beat me to it. All the hype about Cooper stocks and all it is is a Bell & Carlson made for Cooper.
Having owned three Coopers, as nice as they are, I sold all three. One reason, they just never seemed to fit me comfortably. The LOP always seemed short and I'm not a big guy. 6'8" and around 325lb. LOL, More like 5'10" and 185. I like the Savages also but not sure I'd go that way either. Maybe a Savage action and a custom barrel and nice stock.JMO
 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunB&C.......
Originally Posted By: pyscodog2much, you beat me to it. All the hype about Cooper stocks and all it is is a Bell & Carlson made for Cooper.

A gun with that much thought put into it and stick it in a $200 stock??? Uhh theres the first flag!!!

Originally Posted By: pyscodog I like the Savages also but not sure I'd go that way either. Maybe a Savage action and a custom barrel and nice stock.JMO

Now you guys have me thinking...2Much suggested the same thing along with two friends of mine...
 
Lots of barrel mfg's are offering pre-fit barrels for the Savages and at decent prices. The Savage target action is pretty nice too!!
 
As others have said. Yes you can build a cheaper custom rifle for $2,000. It can be done. Just make sure it is exactly what you want. Because if you ever wannt to sell it then it is worth about 1/2 that or less for resale.

If you buy a Cooper and don't like it then it will take about 10 minutes to resell the rifle. They are that popular. And resale that fast. Values have consistently went up with them-not down like a cheaper custom build.

Buy a cheap Savage and build on it. And you stil have a cheap Savage when you are done. I have been trying to sell one for months. Not a bite yet!! Unless I wanted to give it away.

Savages are good rifles. But comparing a Savage to a Cooper just because both shoot well is nuts. There is so much more to a better made rifle. But if you don't already know that then there is no reason for me to try and explain it.

And if you are afraid to use a rifle with a nice stock?? Well that is just the silliest thing I have ever heard. Yes you should try to take care of it. But to leave it in the safe because you are afraid to put a scratch on it?? Just because it has pretty wood??

Wood has been knocked way too much in the hunting world. And good bedding will take care of wood for all but the smallest percentage of hunters. And those are the hunters who hunt in the harshest environments. And those gus are not buying TupperWare Savages!!

If I had to choose between a Cooper Phoenix that shot 1" groups at 100 yards for a deer rifle. And two Savage's that both shot 1/2" groups(even though that is pie in the sky), I would still choose the Cooper. OH BUT THEN I FORGOT. Cooper does have an accuracy guarantee. And Savage DOES NOT!!

Go with the 260. Fantastic cartridge. Tom.
 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgun

Nothing against Cooper. Coopers are nice, but nothing special for the money, IMO. You can build a rifle just as good, on several different actions, with a custom barrel, to your own specs, for the same price.




This is good advice. Just make sure you have built exactly what you want. Because if you decide to resell this rifle you had built. Be prepared to take a bath.

I have built a couple rifles like this. But I knew exactly what I wanted. And I built them for a specific application. So keep resale in mind. Tom.
 
Originally Posted By: MillerTime69Originally Posted By: 2muchgunI'd go 260 Rem......

Still doesn't help me with my decision lol...

Go with your choice. If you don't you'll regret it later on.

Everyone is gaga over the 6.5mm. Myself, I'm a hunter, a 6.5mm firing a bullet at 2700 fps just doesn't excite me. But if it's what you want, you're the one paying the bill. If I were in your shoes I'd get exactly what I wanted, nothing less.
 
Originally Posted By: DiYi Resale is a very good point.There's always a lot of people that pay for a name.

If the name represents TRUE QUALITY...then count me in. If its the front for lots of hype....I'll hang back and watch.

There are true custom built rifles "out there" that I'd pay $4k for....problem is they want $7500......:)
 
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Originally Posted By: sully2B&C plastic stock.....$144.00 from Stockys! Now there's a good reason to do hand springs.....NOT!


Why would you make a comment like that when you obviously know nothing about what you are talking about??

The stock price you quote is DEFINITELY NOT the stock that B&C makes for Cooper. They make a hand laid stock with Kevlar and aluminum bedding block. And that ABSOLUTELY IS NOT the $144 stock. Yet you say it as if you know what you are talking about. SHHEEESSSSHHHHH.

You complain in one post about someone paying for a name as if it is silly. Then you carte blanche the next post by saying since it is a B&C stock then it must be the $144 stock.

I am not trying to defend Cooper here. Or B&C. But to make a blanket statement like comparing the stock on the Phoenix to the $144 retail stock is just ridiculous. Responding with facts is great. Responding and creating a fallacy is PLAIN WRONG to do. And should be called out every time.

There is a big difference between a hand laid stock and an injection molded stock. The plastic stock you are speaking of is an injection molded stock. The stock Cooper is using is not the injection molded stock. It is a hand laid stock. The way they were orginally made. With fiberglas and Kevlar to strengthen while not adding as much weight.

Again I am not endorsing the current stock B&C is making for Cooper. I am only saying that it definitey IS NOT the cheaper INJECTION MOLDED PLASTIC stock. Which is the one Savage uses. Tom.
 
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Originally Posted By: HOGGHEADOriginally Posted By: sully2B&C plastic stock.....$144.00 from Stockys! Now there's a good reason to do hand springs.....NOT!


Why would you make a comment like that when you obviously know nothing about what you are talking about??

The stock price you quote is DEFINITELY NOT the stock that B&C makes for Cooper. They make a hand laid stock with Kevlar and aluminum bedding block. And that ABSOLUTELY IS NOT the $144 stock. Yet you say it as if you know what you are talking about. SHHEEESSSSHHHHH.

You complain in one post about someone paying for a name as if it is silly. Then you carte blanche the next post by saying since it is a B&C stock then it must be the $144 stock.

I am not trying to defend Cooper here. Or B&C. But to make a blanket statement like comparing the stock on the Phoenix to the $144 retail stock is just ridiculous. Responding with facts is great. Responding and creating a fallacy is PLAIN WRONG to do. And should be called out every time.

There is a big difference between a hand laid stock and an injection molded stock. The plastic stock you are speaking of is an injection molded stock. The stock Cooper is using is not the injection molded stock. It is a hand laid stock. The way they were orginally made. With fiberglas and Kevlar to strengthen while not adding as much weight.

Again I am not endorsing the current stock B&C is making for Cooper. I am only saying that it definitey IS NOT the cheaper INJECTION MOLDED PLASTIC stock. Which is the one Savage uses. Tom.


I NEVER SAID they were one and the same...Dont read into a post wording thats NOT THERE.

So whats the true cost of the "hand laid" gizmo? $200?...$250?...It sure as hekc isnt the same price as a piece of presentation grade Bastogne walnut..now is it?
 
Originally Posted By: HOGGHEADOriginally Posted By: sully2B&C plastic stock.....$144.00 from Stockys! Now there's a good reason to do hand springs.....NOT!

Why would you make a comment like that when you obviously know nothing about what you are talking about??

The stock price you quote is DEFINITELY NOT the stock that B&C makes for Cooper. They make a hand laid stock with Kevlar and aluminum bedding block. And that ABSOLUTELY IS NOT the $144 stock. Yet you say it as if you know what you are talking about. SHHEEESSSSHHHHH.



Its rather funny that you know enough to complain but evidently dont know enough to READ. ON B&C's webpage they talk about their hand laid up methods of manufacturing and SAY NOTHING about any "injected molded" stock construction. Therefore one has to assume that THEY DONT MAKE ANY "injected molded" stocks. If that assumption is correct..??..then the B&C stocks that Stocky sells are IDENTICAL with what is installed on the rifle under discussion!


"Bell and Carlson stocks are constructed using a "hand lay-up" process, using a variety of "composite" materials. These composites, including fiberglass, aramid fibers, graphite, epoxy gel coats and laminating resins; and polyurethane reinforcement with milled fiberglass, provide a warm and solid feel rather than the hollow, toy like impression one gets from injection molded stocks. "

The preceding is directly from their webpage.
http://www.bellandcarlson.com/
 
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Originally Posted By: sully2B&C plastic stock.....$144.00 from Stockys! Now there's a good reason to do hand springs.....NOT!

You are contradicting yourself with this statement and your statement in the above post. Injection molded=plastic. B&C does not make "plastic" stocks. Maybe it is you that cannot read?

Tom knows exactly what he is talking about, and I agree.....
 
Originally Posted By: sully2

Its rather funny that you know enough to complain but evidently dont know enough to READ. ON B&C's webpage they talk about their hand laid up methods of manufacturing and SAY NOTHING about any "injected molded" stock construction. Therefore one has to assume that THEY DONT MAKE ANY "injected molded" stocks. If that assumption is correct..??..then the B&C stocks that Stocky sells are IDENTICAL with what is installed on the rifle under discussion!


"Bell and Carlson stocks are constructed using a "hand lay-up" process, using a variety of "composite" materials. These composites, including fiberglass, aramid fibers, graphite, epoxy gel coats and laminating resins; and polyurethane reinforcement with milled fiberglass, provide a warm and solid feel rather than the hollow, toy like impression one gets from injection molded stocks. "

The preceding is directly from their webpage.
http://www.bellandcarlson.com/




I am going to make one ASSUMPTION here. And only one. and that ASSUMPTION is that you do not know what you are talking about. Obvioulsy you don't know the differences between synthetic stocks.

As 2 much said. Injection molded=Plastic. It is that simple.

But that is still not the point.

A company makes products to the specifications of the end user.

For example the same manufacurer that makes Night Force scopes also makes a sub $100 cheap scope as well. So would you say NF is bad because the same manufacturer also make a cheap product?? NO. No one would do that.

Same as B&C. Do they make some cheap products?? Yes they do. But just because they make an inexpensive stock that does not preclude them from also building a higher grade stock?? Does it??

You specifically said that Cooper was using the cheap $144 plastic stock that B&C made. And when you said that you were wrong. It is that simple. The Cooper stock IS NOT PLASTIC. Is that simple enough for you?? Where have I misread anything?? SHHEEESSSSHHHHH.

Stop making assumptions. Tom.
 
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Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD
You specifically said that Cooper was using the cheap $144 plastic stock that B&C made. And when you said that you were wrong. It is that simple.


I NEVER stated that and to say I did is an outright LIE!

I stated that I can buy a B&C stock from Stockys for approx $145. It was stated elswhere that Cooper used B&C stocks. For all I know God or Snow White made the stocks for Douglas...so dont make the statement that "I SAID" that Douglas used either a cheap stock..or the same stock that can be purchased for $150 from Stockys. As I siaid..dont read into a post what you want it to say..just read what it says PERIOD!
 
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