1/4" all day long rifle's.....

brdeano

brdeano

New member
Got to wondering about all the super duper internet rifles that guy's own that group sub-1/2 MOA all day long...you know, all those savage/steven's rifle's. I was shooting a target for another website this afternoon and ended up with a .695" agg for 5 5shot groups. It just made me wonder if anyone else would pull out their internet rifles and shoot some real world groups with them? I would like to see some tries at this target. I don't mean that you should show all your old pics of the little groups you've shot. Just shoot some new groups on this target that I linked. No big deal to print multiple, little, groups on demand, right???? I doubt I'll see a bunch of groups on the target I linked, but I'm sure gents will post pics that don't pertain to the target....but they'll have 1 or 2 little groups shown...LOL

Here is the target, simply shoot 5, 5 shot groups on the same paper in one sitting. It's definately a lot harder to sit down and crank out 25 rounds on 1 piece of paper. I've shot lots of little groups with the above rifle, but I was VERY suprised when I tried this multiple group exercise. It's not easy to stay on your game for 25 shots. I can't do it, and that's not a test of the rifle.....it's a test of the shooter.

[beeep], I only agg'd .695" on my try. I'd have thought that rifle would have done much better, but......it didn't.

100_2833-1.jpg


Here is the link to download the target, and try your hand at it.

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileS...=US&lang=en
 
Looks darn good for 1,000 yards!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif





Is this the one you blew up a couple months ago? Told ya the barrel still looked good
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
Maybe the 1/4 inch all day means.. It takes all day to shoot the Group?.. That is.. " If you do Your Part" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
no problem,as soon as the weather gets better ill do it. but i dont know which to use savage 12fv .223 or dpms .223 16"
 
Check out this thread at BR Central... a factory Savage actually beat out the customs to win the Hickory Groundhog shoot this year.

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51200&highlight=savage+hickory

And I'm sure in order to do that, it averages well under 1/2 MOA for the match.

The Savages will actually shoot a lot better than the average bench shooter can. There are a lot more 1/4 MOA rifles out there than 1/4 MOA riflemen... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Dan
 
I think both my savage and CZ 223's are capable of 1/2"
groups all day.Unfortunatly Im not.But useually can one group a day like that.Does that count.lol.
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

This will be interesting. People already coming to to defend there factory rifles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I will be willing to bet that not many post a pic of their agg target though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.

Not that I don't think some rifles will not do it. I just think they get multiplied exponentially on the computer screen. BTW, the hickory shoot is based off score not groups, but yeah, I'm sure that Savage is a good one. Big diff between the $1000 LRPV & a $400 plastic sporter though.

Print 'em off guys, let's see them ragged holes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I think most people can shoot better than there guns can. Many times at our range I have let people shoot one of my BR guns "22 ppc short on a stolle panda with a Leopold 40x and 1 1/2 oz. jewel trigger" that have never shot less than a 3/4" group in there life with a hunting gun. If the wind is calm there first group will be around .200 or better. After that you need a stick to beat them off, and get my gun back. A .250 group once and while is just luck. I spend lots of money to get mine to shoot like that. If you can do it five time in a row on any given day then you have a .250 rife.
 
Brdeano,

I love this! You hit the nail on the head with this one. It has been very interesting to me how these "internet" super guns have changed the expectation of the average shooter. I have a good friend that I reload for that has a 6.5 Remington Magnum. I have developed loads for the 100 gr. noslers and the 120 gr. hornadys that will shoot 5 shots into a little less than .600". Now I think that is incredible for a factory rifle with a worked over trigger and a 22 inch medium contour barrel. He is not satisfied, he thinks it should shoot .500" or less or I haven't arrived at the best load combination. Did I mention this guy probably shoots less than 150 rounds a year out of this rifle? I have personally only seen one factory rifle that would consistently shoot between .250" and .500" 5 shot groups. I think I'm a pretty fair shot, but without a high powered scope (32 to 40 power), I'm not capable of consistently shooting .500" groups. I'll stop ranting. You my friend have spoke the truth, and the truth will set you free.
 
People,

Also keep in mind that Brad's rifle has about 1200rds through the tube from the last cleaning...

Brad, everyone says a dirty barrel won't shoot. [beeep], that one .308 of mine is around 900+rds and still shooting fine...

I love the stuff I read on the net, don't you.

What about the moly thread, LOL.

"Moly is a pita any way you look at it, it also attracts moisture so shooting moly during high humidity or not thouroghly cleaning your firearm will cause rust in the bore and chamber, this will degrade accuracy. So Moly gives no real benifit, and has many side effects, that are a detriment."
 
Quote:
Got to wondering about all the super duper internet rifles that guy's own that group sub-1/2 MOA all day long...you know, all those savage/steven's rifle's. I was shooting a target for another website this afternoon and ended up with a .695" agg for 5 5shot groups. It just made me wonder if anyone else would pull out their internet rifles and shoot some real world groups with them? I would like to see some tries at this target.

Here is the target, simply shoot 5, 5 shot groups on the same paper. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif Surely the 1/4MOA savage rifles would have no problem spanking the custom rifles in this regard.

[beeep], I only agg'd .695" on my try.

100_2833-1.jpg


Here is the link to download the target, and try your hand at it.

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileS...=US&lang=en



What choke and load did you use to shoot those patterns? LOL
 
My guess or belief is that a LOT of those "all day long rifles' are rifles that shot a .25 group once or twice,(the saying even a blind squirrel finds a nut, comes to mind). I'm perfectly happy with sub MOA which I think a lot of factory rifles are capable of with hand loads. MOA kills coyotes so I'm happy with that.

Mahamari
 
I've only ever had but one factory rifle I'd be willing to bet on to agg under .500 at 100 yards, in good conditions. Never had, or even seen one, that I would bet on to agg .250 or better. Of course, I have not owned all that many rifles, either. And I'm not much of a range rat, so have not seen all that many, compared to a lot of other guys. Note - I've shot PLENTY of .250 groups with my factory rifles. But one group is many light years away from an agg. [beeep], I once shot a group in the very low teens with a pre '64 M70 '06. The owner of the rifle carried that group in his wallet until the paper sublimed into dirt. But the real fact of the matter, is that rifle was about a 1.25 MOA shooter, on average. The one tiny group was a fluke, and all rifles shoot them once in awhile.

Most of my rifles wear custom barrels though. And most of them will agg sub .500, in good conditions. I agree with the notion that most shooters do shoot better than most rifles. Seen the exact same thing with sitting someone down behind a really accurate rifle and all the sudden they are drilling dots under .300 with ease. Most people can shoot groups like that, with the right rifle, under the right conditions.

A target from my favorite prairie dog rifle, which is a genuine sub .250 rifle:

BR-Agg.jpg


Note - these are five shot groups, but only four of them. The cluster in the lower right corner isn't really a group at all, it's what I was using as a sighter. And the only reason for even taking a picture of this, was the fly that I splattered in the extreme lower right there. Otherwise, this target is nothing to even get excited about, for this rifle.

I bet 8 out of 10 guys on this board, could sit down behind that rifle in good conditions and plunk out a sub .300 group. Easy. And of the 2 out of 10 that couldn't, one of them would be because he just wouldn't listen to good advice.

- DAA
 
In order I would put these as the things that have done the most to improve on the average shooters groups:

1) The rifled barrel.
2) The internet.
3) Not using corrective lens when using the calipers.
4) Losing old targets and going off of memory to develop averages.
 




What choke and load did you use to shoot those patterns? LOL



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif So now a .695 agg is a pattern. You must have some outstanding shooting rifles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

The whole point was/is that I can sit down and crank out little 3 shot groups with that rifle, but when I tried putting 25 good shots on a target it was much harder to do. I just wonder if any of the guys who post the ONE little 3 shot groups, then say their rifle shoots in the .2's, would shoot and post a multiple group target. I've shot my share of internet groups with that rifle, but was a little suprised at this one as I thought it would have been better.

Mike's right, this rifle is an experiment of sorts in cleaning, or lack thereof. I last cleaned it at 1500 rounds back last winter, currently it's round count is just over 2700. A cleaning might shrink those groups, but it's still shooting good enough for what it does. It'll get cleaned when the groups open up past MOA, til then I'll just keep running with it.
 
here ya go
ita a stevens mod 200 .223
with 27.7 gr of RL-15
i dont know the size of the grps i dont have a caliper
it was off a leadsled @ 94 yds
DSC00312-1.jpg

DSC00311-1.jpg
 
Quote:
DAA, that's some fine shooting!!! What are the specs on that rifle?



That's a .22BR, built on a single digit S/N Nesika K, Lilja 3 groove, Jewell, Nightforce, Lee Six HBR. When the wind isn't blowing too bad and I've had just the right amount of coffee, it's pure [beeep]-on-wheels in a dog town. Killed a decent sized pile of 'chucks with it too.

- DAA
 
There is one post on this forum where a stock sporter does 1/4 on a bad day, better the rest of the time. Lord grant me one 1/4 inch gun in my life and if you already have, teach me how to operate it.
 
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