ncyotecaller
New member
I am seriously considering another Kahles but this time in a Helia C w/ Multi-Zero
Which $1000 Scope
- Thread starter ncyotecaller
- Start date
stanimals2
New member
1000 dollar scopes !! what the [beeep] do you people do for a living, you people crack me up LOL!!!!!!!!
2muchgun
New member
Quote:
Quote:
$1000? Id scoop up a slightly used MK4 M1 4.5-14x40. Should easily be able to find one for $800-850. Spend the rest on a quality set of rings/base.
Leupold doesn't make that scope. But you can send your VXIII 4.5-14x40 LR in and have them put the M1 knobs on. It will run you about what you said $800-$850 for the total package. Now you pretty much have a MK4, short of the double spring erector and a little beefier tube.
This ia a Vari-XII 4.5-14x40AO with M1's added. I have $575 into it, including sunshade. Could someone please tell me what deer/elk/pronghorn hunt it is insufficient for?
Quote:
$1000? Id scoop up a slightly used MK4 M1 4.5-14x40. Should easily be able to find one for $800-850. Spend the rest on a quality set of rings/base.
Leupold doesn't make that scope. But you can send your VXIII 4.5-14x40 LR in and have them put the M1 knobs on. It will run you about what you said $800-$850 for the total package. Now you pretty much have a MK4, short of the double spring erector and a little beefier tube.
This ia a Vari-XII 4.5-14x40AO with M1's added. I have $575 into it, including sunshade. Could someone please tell me what deer/elk/pronghorn hunt it is insufficient for?
ncyotecaller
New member
Are those Badger Rings?
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$1000? Id scoop up a slightly used MK4 M1 4.5-14x40. Should easily be able to find one for $800-850. Spend the rest on a quality set of rings/base.
Leupold doesn't make that scope. But you can send your VXIII 4.5-14x40 LR in and have them put the M1 knobs on. It will run you about what you said $800-$850 for the total package. Now you pretty much have a MK4, short of the double spring erector and a little beefier tube.
This ia a Vari-XII 4.5-14x40AO with M1's added. I have $575 into it, including sunshade. Could someone please tell me what deer/elk/pronghorn hunt it is insufficient for?
Personally I would never go into the deer woods, or elk hunting for that matter with that scope. IMO it is a huge mistake to go into the woods with any optics that have exposed turrets. I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions. I am also of the opinion that a sunshade is also a worthless accessory for deer and elk hunting. Extra weight with no real gain. I realize it is not much weight, but I also believe that it is just one more accessory you can have a problem with.
Now if you intended to say that the quality of the glass is more than adequate, then I would agree with you that the quality of the glass is more than acceptable for a hunting rifle. However I disagree that the particular scope you have shown is a good choice. However I truly do believe that the Swarovski glass is better glass. And I do own both scopes. Tom.
Quote:
Quote:
$1000? Id scoop up a slightly used MK4 M1 4.5-14x40. Should easily be able to find one for $800-850. Spend the rest on a quality set of rings/base.
Leupold doesn't make that scope. But you can send your VXIII 4.5-14x40 LR in and have them put the M1 knobs on. It will run you about what you said $800-$850 for the total package. Now you pretty much have a MK4, short of the double spring erector and a little beefier tube.
This ia a Vari-XII 4.5-14x40AO with M1's added. I have $575 into it, including sunshade. Could someone please tell me what deer/elk/pronghorn hunt it is insufficient for?
Personally I would never go into the deer woods, or elk hunting for that matter with that scope. IMO it is a huge mistake to go into the woods with any optics that have exposed turrets. I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions. I am also of the opinion that a sunshade is also a worthless accessory for deer and elk hunting. Extra weight with no real gain. I realize it is not much weight, but I also believe that it is just one more accessory you can have a problem with.
Now if you intended to say that the quality of the glass is more than adequate, then I would agree with you that the quality of the glass is more than acceptable for a hunting rifle. However I disagree that the particular scope you have shown is a good choice. However I truly do believe that the Swarovski glass is better glass. And I do own both scopes. Tom.
knockemdown
New member
Quote:
I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions.
That phenonemon hasn't stopped our various military outfits from using these types of optics in "rugged conditions" where a soldier's life depends on his gear...
I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions.
That phenonemon hasn't stopped our various military outfits from using these types of optics in "rugged conditions" where a soldier's life depends on his gear...
7mnRM
New member
Quote:
Quote:
$1000? Id scoop up a slightly used MK4 M1 4.5-14x40. Should easily be able to find one for $800-850. Spend the rest on a quality set of rings/base.
Leupold doesn't make that scope. But you can send your VXIII 4.5-14x40 LR in and have them put the M1 knobs on. It will run you about what you said $800-$850 for the total package. Now you pretty much have a MK4, short of the double spring erector and a little beefier tube.
Ya, my bad that was a typo. Leupold "should" make that scope. Actually, CSGunworks had Leupold make a run of these for them.
Quote:
$1000? Id scoop up a slightly used MK4 M1 4.5-14x40. Should easily be able to find one for $800-850. Spend the rest on a quality set of rings/base.
Leupold doesn't make that scope. But you can send your VXIII 4.5-14x40 LR in and have them put the M1 knobs on. It will run you about what you said $800-$850 for the total package. Now you pretty much have a MK4, short of the double spring erector and a little beefier tube.
Ya, my bad that was a typo. Leupold "should" make that scope. Actually, CSGunworks had Leupold make a run of these for them.
7mnRM
New member
Quote:
Quote:
I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions.
That phenonemon hasn't stopped our various military outfits from using these types of optics in "rugged conditions" where a soldier's life depends on his gear...
+1. The argument the exposed turrets is a liability is always good for a laugh.
Quote:
I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions.
That phenonemon hasn't stopped our various military outfits from using these types of optics in "rugged conditions" where a soldier's life depends on his gear...
+1. The argument the exposed turrets is a liability is always good for a laugh.
2muchgun
New member
Quote:
Quote:
I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions.
That phenonemon hasn't stopped our various military outfits from using these types of optics in "rugged conditions" where a soldier's life depends on his gear...
Couldn't have said it any better.
The sunshade was on because I last shot it on a sunny day. Never hunted with it on before. Just the Butler Creek flip-ups....
Quote:
I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions.
That phenonemon hasn't stopped our various military outfits from using these types of optics in "rugged conditions" where a soldier's life depends on his gear...
Couldn't have said it any better.
The sunshade was on because I last shot it on a sunny day. Never hunted with it on before. Just the Butler Creek flip-ups....
dmfd1836
New member
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions.
That phenonemon hasn't stopped our various military outfits from using these types of optics in "rugged conditions" where a soldier's life depends on his gear...
+1. The argument the exposed turrets is a liability is always good for a laugh.
I hope you never have to learn the hard way. But it has happened many times to many hunters. Experienced hunters will tell you one thing. And that is to keep it simple.
And to argue that the miltary personell does it is also a non-starter. A military person is a professional. There are very few professional's in the deer woods. A few of you guy's may be professionals, but the other 99% of the hunters are not.
I have seen and been around 1,000's of shooters. And I doubt that more than a handful of them are capable of turret turning in a big game hunting situation. And that would only be long distance shooters(over 400 yards) who are highly trained.
I have seen some of the highest trained military personell at the range adjust turrets. Then I have seen them shoot there next shot and say OOOPPPSSS I forgot to set the turret back to zero.
You guys may think they look cool. And that is great if you like them. But to try and justify them to the average shooter is just wrong. And to recommend them to the average Joe is also wrong. Tom.
Quote:
Quote:
I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions.
That phenonemon hasn't stopped our various military outfits from using these types of optics in "rugged conditions" where a soldier's life depends on his gear...
+1. The argument the exposed turrets is a liability is always good for a laugh.
I hope you never have to learn the hard way. But it has happened many times to many hunters. Experienced hunters will tell you one thing. And that is to keep it simple.
And to argue that the miltary personell does it is also a non-starter. A military person is a professional. There are very few professional's in the deer woods. A few of you guy's may be professionals, but the other 99% of the hunters are not.
I have seen and been around 1,000's of shooters. And I doubt that more than a handful of them are capable of turret turning in a big game hunting situation. And that would only be long distance shooters(over 400 yards) who are highly trained.
I have seen some of the highest trained military personell at the range adjust turrets. Then I have seen them shoot there next shot and say OOOPPPSSS I forgot to set the turret back to zero.
You guys may think they look cool. And that is great if you like them. But to try and justify them to the average shooter is just wrong. And to recommend them to the average Joe is also wrong. Tom.
knockemdown
New member
Quote:
I hope you never have to learn the hard way. But it has happened many times to many hunters. Experienced hunters will tell you one thing. And that is to keep it simple.
And to argue that the miltary personell does it is also a non-starter. A military person is a professional. There are very few professional's in the deer woods. A few of you guy's may be professionals, but the other 99% of the hunters are not.
I have seen and been around 1,000's of shooters. And I doubt that more than a handful of them are capable of turret turning in a big game hunting situation. And that would only be long distance shooters(over 400 yards) who are highly trained.
I have seen some of the highest trained military personell at the range adjust turrets. Then I have seen them shoot there next shot and say OOOPPPSSS I forgot to set the turret back to zero.
You guys may think they look cool. And that is great if you like them. But to try and justify them to the average shooter is just wrong. And to recommend them to the average Joe is also wrong. Tom.
I'll attempt to reply to this without being argumentative...
You make it seem like a shooter needs a PhD. to twist turrets. A shooter need not be a "professional" to understand & utilize scope turrets. In reality, it is nothing more than simple JR high school math. Or, if utilizing a laser range finder and dope card, it is more like playing "connect the dots". (Reading wind is a whole 'nutha ball 'o wax)...
Don't take this the wrong way, there surely is a learning curve to shooting at long range. But if one can operate a vehicle competently enough to get to the rifle range, then surely one can deduce the operation of scope turrets...
By no means am I advocating that "average Joe hunter" should pick up a NXS scope (or the like) for his '06 and start taking pot shots on game animals at distances beyond their ability. Shooting at distance requires PRACTICE. And one's ability on targets will determine their effective range on game...
Believe me, I'm the farthest thing from a "professional", but I can say this. Before I send one downrange, I look at my turrets before I shoot to make sure they are adjusted where I want them (my normal zero). OR, this is precisely when I'll be making my adjustments! Being that they are "exposed" it takes a fraction of a second to confirm my zero or a couple more to dial the turrets as needed. If a shooter can't implement that into his "mental checklist" before taking a shot, then he most likely shouldn't be operating a firearm at all...
Only a few of my hunting rigs have exposed turrets. But I know how to use them and I don't feel hindered carrying them in the field. If anything, I'm a better shot for it! It is more repeatably accurate to dial an exact range and hold dead on than it is to use "Kentucky windage" or a perceived holdover...
Respectfully, your opinion of target turrets in the field sounds like something you just read on the Internet. I say that because I've read the "exposed turrets have no place on a hunting rifle" line plenty enough, as have others. If you can't drive one, then don't get behind the wheel! But please don't make inaccurate statements as to their potential in the field. My first post in this thread was meant to substantiate that point...
I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. method as well, and exposed turrets on a scope dont' make anything "harder" to do. And I've killed plenty enough critters and shot enough targets to be able to say that...
On side note...
Some guys like to knock shooters for having a $1000+ scope with turrets on their sticks saying that they don't "need" them. Well, for a shooter to make such a sizable investment in his gear, he must be serious about learning how to use it. Ya think? And that commitment can only help the shooter become more proficient at both long and "average" range...
So don't be knockin' shooters with the high dollar glass 'cause more than likely we'll be the ones hitting what we're aiming at... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
And yes, they do look cool too... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I hope you never have to learn the hard way. But it has happened many times to many hunters. Experienced hunters will tell you one thing. And that is to keep it simple.
And to argue that the miltary personell does it is also a non-starter. A military person is a professional. There are very few professional's in the deer woods. A few of you guy's may be professionals, but the other 99% of the hunters are not.
I have seen and been around 1,000's of shooters. And I doubt that more than a handful of them are capable of turret turning in a big game hunting situation. And that would only be long distance shooters(over 400 yards) who are highly trained.
I have seen some of the highest trained military personell at the range adjust turrets. Then I have seen them shoot there next shot and say OOOPPPSSS I forgot to set the turret back to zero.
You guys may think they look cool. And that is great if you like them. But to try and justify them to the average shooter is just wrong. And to recommend them to the average Joe is also wrong. Tom.
I'll attempt to reply to this without being argumentative...
You make it seem like a shooter needs a PhD. to twist turrets. A shooter need not be a "professional" to understand & utilize scope turrets. In reality, it is nothing more than simple JR high school math. Or, if utilizing a laser range finder and dope card, it is more like playing "connect the dots". (Reading wind is a whole 'nutha ball 'o wax)...
Don't take this the wrong way, there surely is a learning curve to shooting at long range. But if one can operate a vehicle competently enough to get to the rifle range, then surely one can deduce the operation of scope turrets...
By no means am I advocating that "average Joe hunter" should pick up a NXS scope (or the like) for his '06 and start taking pot shots on game animals at distances beyond their ability. Shooting at distance requires PRACTICE. And one's ability on targets will determine their effective range on game...
Believe me, I'm the farthest thing from a "professional", but I can say this. Before I send one downrange, I look at my turrets before I shoot to make sure they are adjusted where I want them (my normal zero). OR, this is precisely when I'll be making my adjustments! Being that they are "exposed" it takes a fraction of a second to confirm my zero or a couple more to dial the turrets as needed. If a shooter can't implement that into his "mental checklist" before taking a shot, then he most likely shouldn't be operating a firearm at all...
Only a few of my hunting rigs have exposed turrets. But I know how to use them and I don't feel hindered carrying them in the field. If anything, I'm a better shot for it! It is more repeatably accurate to dial an exact range and hold dead on than it is to use "Kentucky windage" or a perceived holdover...
Respectfully, your opinion of target turrets in the field sounds like something you just read on the Internet. I say that because I've read the "exposed turrets have no place on a hunting rifle" line plenty enough, as have others. If you can't drive one, then don't get behind the wheel! But please don't make inaccurate statements as to their potential in the field. My first post in this thread was meant to substantiate that point...
I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. method as well, and exposed turrets on a scope dont' make anything "harder" to do. And I've killed plenty enough critters and shot enough targets to be able to say that...
On side note...
Some guys like to knock shooters for having a $1000+ scope with turrets on their sticks saying that they don't "need" them. Well, for a shooter to make such a sizable investment in his gear, he must be serious about learning how to use it. Ya think? And that commitment can only help the shooter become more proficient at both long and "average" range...
So don't be knockin' shooters with the high dollar glass 'cause more than likely we'll be the ones hitting what we're aiming at... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
And yes, they do look cool too... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
RePete
New member
Well said knock'emdown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I'd much rather see a guy twisting turrets than hear the tired old stories about how "I just held her about ?feet over the shoulder and let er rip"". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I especially like the new low profile turrets of Leupolds that 2MG posted recently...
Hunter style turrets for hunters..... Brilliant!!!
I'd much rather see a guy twisting turrets than hear the tired old stories about how "I just held her about ?feet over the shoulder and let er rip"". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I especially like the new low profile turrets of Leupolds that 2MG posted recently...
Hunter style turrets for hunters..... Brilliant!!!
Quote:
Quote:
I hope you never have to learn the hard way. But it has happened many times to many hunters. Experienced hunters will tell you one thing. And that is to keep it simple.
And to argue that the miltary personell does it is also a non-starter. A military person is a professional. There are very few professional's in the deer woods. A few of you guy's may be professionals, but the other 99% of the hunters are not.
I have seen and been around 1,000's of shooters. And I doubt that more than a handful of them are capable of turret turning in a big game hunting situation. And that would only be long distance shooters(over 400 yards) who are highly trained.
I have seen some of the highest trained military personell at the range adjust turrets. Then I have seen them shoot there next shot and say OOOPPPSSS I forgot to set the turret back to zero.
You guys may think they look cool. And that is great if you like them. But to try and justify them to the average shooter is just wrong. And to recommend them to the average Joe is also wrong. Tom.
I'll attempt to reply to this without being argumentative...
You make it seem like a shooter needs a PhD. to twist turrets. A shooter need not be a "professional" to understand & utilize scope turrets. In reality, it is nothing more than simple JR high school math. Or, if utilizing a laser range finder and dope card, it is more like playing "connect the dots". (Reading wind is a whole 'nutha ball 'o wax)...
Don't take this the wrong way, there surely is a learning curve to shooting at long range. But if one can operate a vehicle competently enough to get to the rifle range, then surely one can deduce the operation of scope turrets...
By no means am I advocating that "average Joe hunter" should pick up a NXS scope (or the like) for his '06 and start taking pot shots on game animals at distances beyond their ability. Shooting at distance requires PRACTICE. And one's ability on targets will determine their effective range on game...
Believe me, I'm the farthest thing from a "professional", but I can say this. Before I send one downrange, I look at my turrets before I shoot to make sure they are adjusted where I want them (my normal zero). OR, this is precisely when I'll be making my adjustments! Being that they are "exposed" it takes a fraction of a second to confirm my zero or a couple more to dial the turrets as needed. If a shooter can't implement that into his "mental checklist" before taking a shot, then he most likely shouldn't be operating a firearm at all...
Only a few of my hunting rigs have exposed turrets. But I know how to use them and I don't feel hindered carrying them in the field. If anything, I'm a better shot for it! It is more repeatably accurate to dial an exact range and hold dead on than it is to use "Kentucky windage" or a perceived holdover...
Respectfully, your opinion of target turrets in the field sounds like something you just read on the Internet. I say that because I've read the "exposed turrets have no place on a hunting rifle" line plenty enough, as have others. If you can't drive one, then don't get behind the wheel! But please don't make inaccurate statements as to their potential in the field. My first post in this thread was meant to substantiate that point...
I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. method as well, and exposed turrets on a scope dont' make anything "harder" to do. And I've killed plenty enough critters and shot enough targets to be able to say that...
On side note...
Some guys like to knock shooters for having a $1000+ scope with turrets on their sticks saying that they don't "need" them. Well, for a shooter to make such a sizable investment in his gear, he must be serious about learning how to use it. Ya think? And that commitment can only help the shooter become more proficient at both long and "average" range...
So don't be knockin' shooters with the high dollar glass 'cause more than likely we'll be the ones hitting what we're aiming at... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
And yes, they do look cool too... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I enjoy a good discussion as well as the next guy. So I am with you when you say a friendly argument.
I would like to point out a few flaws in your discussion.
You have made too many assumptions about my posts.
First of all I am the one that recommended the highest price scope to start with. I am the one that recommended the Swarovski A-Line scope. After I suggested the A-line then the other posters came in and said the Leupold(lesser scope IMO)was more than adequate. Then I only commented on the specific Leupold. If you had read the entire 5 or 6 pages then you would have known that I was the one that actually suggested the higher dollar scope, not the one knocking the high dollare scope. So how am I knocking high dollar scopes?? I can not figure that one out??
You also assumed that my information came from what I read online. That is also a false assumption. I have hunted in at least 3(if not more) different states for deer for the past 41 years. So I have seen a lot of things go wrong. And that includes hunters making mistakes with target turrets. And if you read my post it clearly says "for rugged conditions", Heck I have target turrets on my "Field Guns".
Now in the beginning of your post you said the exact same thing I said, and that is that Target turrets are not for the average "Joe". And that was the jist of my post. However I must have stepped on the toes of the wrong person with my comment.
I have not knocked anyone for high dollar scopes. In fact that is what I use.
And I am not knocking long distance shooting or hunting. I am fairly adept at that type of shooting myself. And I do use Target turrets on my hunting rifles.
All I said is that TT's are not for the average Joe. Can you honestly say I am wrong about that?? I do not think so?? And I did not read it in Outdoor Life.
I learn new things and have discussions on a daily basis with hunters and shooters. And the biggest thing I see guys do is make assumptions that are wrong. I do it myself, so I am guilty also. However it sems like you and I agree on this one. Not disagree. Tom.
Quote:
I hope you never have to learn the hard way. But it has happened many times to many hunters. Experienced hunters will tell you one thing. And that is to keep it simple.
And to argue that the miltary personell does it is also a non-starter. A military person is a professional. There are very few professional's in the deer woods. A few of you guy's may be professionals, but the other 99% of the hunters are not.
I have seen and been around 1,000's of shooters. And I doubt that more than a handful of them are capable of turret turning in a big game hunting situation. And that would only be long distance shooters(over 400 yards) who are highly trained.
I have seen some of the highest trained military personell at the range adjust turrets. Then I have seen them shoot there next shot and say OOOPPPSSS I forgot to set the turret back to zero.
You guys may think they look cool. And that is great if you like them. But to try and justify them to the average shooter is just wrong. And to recommend them to the average Joe is also wrong. Tom.
I'll attempt to reply to this without being argumentative...
You make it seem like a shooter needs a PhD. to twist turrets. A shooter need not be a "professional" to understand & utilize scope turrets. In reality, it is nothing more than simple JR high school math. Or, if utilizing a laser range finder and dope card, it is more like playing "connect the dots". (Reading wind is a whole 'nutha ball 'o wax)...
Don't take this the wrong way, there surely is a learning curve to shooting at long range. But if one can operate a vehicle competently enough to get to the rifle range, then surely one can deduce the operation of scope turrets...
By no means am I advocating that "average Joe hunter" should pick up a NXS scope (or the like) for his '06 and start taking pot shots on game animals at distances beyond their ability. Shooting at distance requires PRACTICE. And one's ability on targets will determine their effective range on game...
Believe me, I'm the farthest thing from a "professional", but I can say this. Before I send one downrange, I look at my turrets before I shoot to make sure they are adjusted where I want them (my normal zero). OR, this is precisely when I'll be making my adjustments! Being that they are "exposed" it takes a fraction of a second to confirm my zero or a couple more to dial the turrets as needed. If a shooter can't implement that into his "mental checklist" before taking a shot, then he most likely shouldn't be operating a firearm at all...
Only a few of my hunting rigs have exposed turrets. But I know how to use them and I don't feel hindered carrying them in the field. If anything, I'm a better shot for it! It is more repeatably accurate to dial an exact range and hold dead on than it is to use "Kentucky windage" or a perceived holdover...
Respectfully, your opinion of target turrets in the field sounds like something you just read on the Internet. I say that because I've read the "exposed turrets have no place on a hunting rifle" line plenty enough, as have others. If you can't drive one, then don't get behind the wheel! But please don't make inaccurate statements as to their potential in the field. My first post in this thread was meant to substantiate that point...
I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. method as well, and exposed turrets on a scope dont' make anything "harder" to do. And I've killed plenty enough critters and shot enough targets to be able to say that...
On side note...
Some guys like to knock shooters for having a $1000+ scope with turrets on their sticks saying that they don't "need" them. Well, for a shooter to make such a sizable investment in his gear, he must be serious about learning how to use it. Ya think? And that commitment can only help the shooter become more proficient at both long and "average" range...
So don't be knockin' shooters with the high dollar glass 'cause more than likely we'll be the ones hitting what we're aiming at... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
And yes, they do look cool too... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I enjoy a good discussion as well as the next guy. So I am with you when you say a friendly argument.
I would like to point out a few flaws in your discussion.
You have made too many assumptions about my posts.
First of all I am the one that recommended the highest price scope to start with. I am the one that recommended the Swarovski A-Line scope. After I suggested the A-line then the other posters came in and said the Leupold(lesser scope IMO)was more than adequate. Then I only commented on the specific Leupold. If you had read the entire 5 or 6 pages then you would have known that I was the one that actually suggested the higher dollar scope, not the one knocking the high dollare scope. So how am I knocking high dollar scopes?? I can not figure that one out??
You also assumed that my information came from what I read online. That is also a false assumption. I have hunted in at least 3(if not more) different states for deer for the past 41 years. So I have seen a lot of things go wrong. And that includes hunters making mistakes with target turrets. And if you read my post it clearly says "for rugged conditions", Heck I have target turrets on my "Field Guns".
Now in the beginning of your post you said the exact same thing I said, and that is that Target turrets are not for the average "Joe". And that was the jist of my post. However I must have stepped on the toes of the wrong person with my comment.
I have not knocked anyone for high dollar scopes. In fact that is what I use.
And I am not knocking long distance shooting or hunting. I am fairly adept at that type of shooting myself. And I do use Target turrets on my hunting rifles.
All I said is that TT's are not for the average Joe. Can you honestly say I am wrong about that?? I do not think so?? And I did not read it in Outdoor Life.
I learn new things and have discussions on a daily basis with hunters and shooters. And the biggest thing I see guys do is make assumptions that are wrong. I do it myself, so I am guilty also. However it sems like you and I agree on this one. Not disagree. Tom.
2muchgun
New member
HH--You are confusing the heck out of me. First you said you find using target turrets in the woods to be a huge mistake and that you would never do it.
Now you are saying you do have/use target turrets on your hunting rifles and you show a pic of a Conquest with exposed turrets. Which is it man /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Now you are saying you do have/use target turrets on your hunting rifles and you show a pic of a Conquest with exposed turrets. Which is it man /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
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HH--You are confusing the heck out of me. First you said you find using target turrets in the woods to be a huge mistake and that you would never do it.
Now you are saying you do have/use target turrets on your hunting rifles and you show a pic of a Conquest with exposed turrets. Which is it man /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
That is a ground hog rifle. It is not a rifle that is carried into "rugged areas". As a matter of fact I am a handicapped person, and am unable to even hunt in "rugged areas". That ended about 6 years ago. I have had to completely relearn how to hunt with a handicap, but I will never give up.
And as I clearly stated "Average Joe". You probably are not an average Joe, I will grant you that. Please show me where I said that I find using target turrets to be a huge mistake(you can not find that but you are welcome to look). My statement was directed to your post when you suggest target turrets and sun shades as the perfect big game scope. And when you suggested that your Leupold was either superior or on par to the Swarovski A-Line(which by the way it is not).
If you are confused then maybe you should read the post from an unbiased view point, then you might use an open mind to my suggestions?? But then maybe not??
I guess my post count is not high enough to question a recommendation. I should have known better than to question the resident expert. My fault, I am sorry. Tom.
HH--You are confusing the heck out of me. First you said you find using target turrets in the woods to be a huge mistake and that you would never do it.
Now you are saying you do have/use target turrets on your hunting rifles and you show a pic of a Conquest with exposed turrets. Which is it man /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
That is a ground hog rifle. It is not a rifle that is carried into "rugged areas". As a matter of fact I am a handicapped person, and am unable to even hunt in "rugged areas". That ended about 6 years ago. I have had to completely relearn how to hunt with a handicap, but I will never give up.
And as I clearly stated "Average Joe". You probably are not an average Joe, I will grant you that. Please show me where I said that I find using target turrets to be a huge mistake(you can not find that but you are welcome to look). My statement was directed to your post when you suggest target turrets and sun shades as the perfect big game scope. And when you suggested that your Leupold was either superior or on par to the Swarovski A-Line(which by the way it is not).
If you are confused then maybe you should read the post from an unbiased view point, then you might use an open mind to my suggestions?? But then maybe not??
I guess my post count is not high enough to question a recommendation. I should have known better than to question the resident expert. My fault, I am sorry. Tom.
knockemdown
New member
Funny HH, I just got done funnin' ya in the Varmint section to keep things on a "light note" and here you are responding on this thread with the same pic!!! You can't make this stuff up!
Suggesting turrets to the "average Joe" is wrong but you have a Zeiss w/ turrets? That's pretty condescending and hypocritical of you. How much better do you think you are than the "average Joe"???
I've been following this thread from the get go and I'm not going to get into nitpicking tidbits to reiterate a point. That'd be making a "mountain out of a mole hill"...
And as they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words, so I'm walking away from this one...
Good shootin' & happy dialing!
Suggesting turrets to the "average Joe" is wrong but you have a Zeiss w/ turrets? That's pretty condescending and hypocritical of you. How much better do you think you are than the "average Joe"???
I've been following this thread from the get go and I'm not going to get into nitpicking tidbits to reiterate a point. That'd be making a "mountain out of a mole hill"...
And as they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words, so I'm walking away from this one...
Good shootin' & happy dialing!
2muchgun
New member
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$1000? Id scoop up a slightly used MK4 M1 4.5-14x40. Should easily be able to find one for $800-850. Spend the rest on a quality set of rings/base.
Leupold doesn't make that scope. But you can send your VXIII 4.5-14x40 LR in and have them put the M1 knobs on. It will run you about what you said $800-$850 for the total package. Now you pretty much have a MK4, short of the double spring erector and a little beefier tube.
This ia a Vari-XII 4.5-14x40AO with M1's added. I have $575 into it, including sunshade. Could someone please tell me what deer/elk/pronghorn hunt it is insufficient for?
Personally I would never go into the deer woods, or elk hunting for that matter with that scope. IMO it is a huge mistake to go into the woods with any optics that have exposed turrets. I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions. I am also of the opinion that a sunshade is also a worthless accessory for deer and elk hunting. Extra weight with no real gain. I realize it is not much weight, but I also believe that it is just one more accessory you can have a problem with.
Now if you intended to say that the quality of the glass is more than adequate, then I would agree with you that the quality of the glass is more than acceptable for a hunting rifle. However I disagree that the particular scope you have shown is a good choice. However I truly do believe that the Swarovski glass is better glass. And I do own both scopes. Tom.
Right above here is where you said it was a "huge mistake."
I don't hunt with the sunshade on. They have their purpose, though.
I never once anywhere made a single comment about Swarovski or my above scope being superior to anything. My point was that it will easily do anything a long range deer rifle needs to do, without a 30mm tube, 50mm obj., or $1000 price tag.
Lighten up a bit Tom, it's all good........
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$1000? Id scoop up a slightly used MK4 M1 4.5-14x40. Should easily be able to find one for $800-850. Spend the rest on a quality set of rings/base.
Leupold doesn't make that scope. But you can send your VXIII 4.5-14x40 LR in and have them put the M1 knobs on. It will run you about what you said $800-$850 for the total package. Now you pretty much have a MK4, short of the double spring erector and a little beefier tube.
This ia a Vari-XII 4.5-14x40AO with M1's added. I have $575 into it, including sunshade. Could someone please tell me what deer/elk/pronghorn hunt it is insufficient for?
Personally I would never go into the deer woods, or elk hunting for that matter with that scope. IMO it is a huge mistake to go into the woods with any optics that have exposed turrets. I think esposed turrets are a detractor from a scope that goes into "rugged coditions". And I say this from the viewpoint of how easy it would be for the turrets to be accidently turned in "rugged" conditions. I am also of the opinion that a sunshade is also a worthless accessory for deer and elk hunting. Extra weight with no real gain. I realize it is not much weight, but I also believe that it is just one more accessory you can have a problem with.
Now if you intended to say that the quality of the glass is more than adequate, then I would agree with you that the quality of the glass is more than acceptable for a hunting rifle. However I disagree that the particular scope you have shown is a good choice. However I truly do believe that the Swarovski glass is better glass. And I do own both scopes. Tom.
Right above here is where you said it was a "huge mistake."
I don't hunt with the sunshade on. They have their purpose, though.
I never once anywhere made a single comment about Swarovski or my above scope being superior to anything. My point was that it will easily do anything a long range deer rifle needs to do, without a 30mm tube, 50mm obj., or $1000 price tag.
Lighten up a bit Tom, it's all good........