There a lots of good answers, but it also depends on what you intend to hunt with it. If you are hunting coyotes or prairie dogs, you hardly need a large caliber with all the recoil and reloading expense. I would say that if you are going to be shooting at varmints over 400 yards, I would say that the .264 class of calibers would be about as big as you would want. First off, the rifle has to be capable of it and then the shooter must have lots of practice doing it.
What would you call a long range caliber
- Thread starter Ernest II
- Start date
Coyotejunki
Well-known member
IMO, I have two groups for long range, either hunting or target shooting.
With target shooting, 500-600+ yards.
In hunting conditions, I'd say past 300.
Drop is definitely a big factor, but there are lazer range finders, and some people just have the ability to judge distance well. But doping the wind is harder (again IMO) at long ranges, so a heavier bullet with better BC's may be more beneficial, even though it drops faster.
With target shooting, 500-600+ yards.
In hunting conditions, I'd say past 300.
Drop is definitely a big factor, but there are lazer range finders, and some people just have the ability to judge distance well. But doping the wind is harder (again IMO) at long ranges, so a heavier bullet with better BC's may be more beneficial, even though it drops faster.
nightcaller
Active member
wow! not sure what to think of most of the answers you're getting. BC is nice but not very relavant out to the distances that you're looking at. run the numbers.
just so everyone has a better idea of what your definition of long range is; what are you hunting? what do you consider your max range to be?
a quick example: if you're shooting a 30cal bullet at 2900fps with a BC of .475 it will have 15" of drop at 650yds and 90 degree 5mph wind pushing it 2". compared to a .243 bullet with a BC of .299 at 3550fps drops 12" and the same wind pushing just under 3".
velocity can make up for a lack of BC.
i would not use the .243 bullet in question to hunt deer but it's a great coyote load to as far as my abilities will allow.
my point is that if you are only shooting coyotes to 400yds max it doesnt matter which caliber you chose. if your gun is accurate either caliber will do what you need it to out to 400yds. BC is not a big factor in this decision.
just so everyone has a better idea of what your definition of long range is; what are you hunting? what do you consider your max range to be?
a quick example: if you're shooting a 30cal bullet at 2900fps with a BC of .475 it will have 15" of drop at 650yds and 90 degree 5mph wind pushing it 2". compared to a .243 bullet with a BC of .299 at 3550fps drops 12" and the same wind pushing just under 3".
velocity can make up for a lack of BC.
i would not use the .243 bullet in question to hunt deer but it's a great coyote load to as far as my abilities will allow.
my point is that if you are only shooting coyotes to 400yds max it doesnt matter which caliber you chose. if your gun is accurate either caliber will do what you need it to out to 400yds. BC is not a big factor in this decision.
nastynatesfish
Active member
ive seen some good things come from the 260 and 7wsm, honestly i think it just comes down to what type of recoil your looking for. honestly i wouldnt hunt with a 22250 at 400 on deer sized game. 243 min would be my choice. its easier to get an "overkill" caliber and be overgunned. id rather have to much gun that not enough. my 7mag is a do all for me, i just built a 308 that im using for targets so i dont wear out my 7. 400yds here is a pretty average shot for deer unless your in the treed mountains.
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Coyotejunki
Well-known member
I guess, going back to the original post, IMO 200 yards or abouts is pretty much a moot point for the cartridges you listed.
At 400 you will see some defining factors. When I was talking about the wind, I was thinking in the terms of over 600 yards. I believe most think this is where long range begins. But again that is just my opinion. Wind has a bigger effect at those long range distances.
Just to clarify, are we talking about shooting coyotes with a target kill area of about 4 inches in diameter? With a rifle that shoots MOA, at 400 yards and no wind, elevation, or shooting error, the shooter should be able to put bullets in the kill area. That is if everything is done perfectly.
Was the OP'r going to use factory box ammo, and not reloads too?
At 400 you will see some defining factors. When I was talking about the wind, I was thinking in the terms of over 600 yards. I believe most think this is where long range begins. But again that is just my opinion. Wind has a bigger effect at those long range distances.
Just to clarify, are we talking about shooting coyotes with a target kill area of about 4 inches in diameter? With a rifle that shoots MOA, at 400 yards and no wind, elevation, or shooting error, the shooter should be able to put bullets in the kill area. That is if everything is done perfectly.
Was the OP'r going to use factory box ammo, and not reloads too?
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Originally Posted By: Ernest III look at some of the vmax boxes at the velocity and trajectory and the 22-250 doesnt seem that much better than the 243. I just wonder what is a great long range cal? On the 243 box I believe it says 2 high at 100 is on at 200 and about 7 low at 300. Well the 22-250 says 1 high at 100 is on at 200 and 5 low at 300. The 243 is around 17 low and the 22-250 is 14 low at 300. Im just going by memeory so done quote me on these numbers. What Im getting at is for the avrg shooter 14 or 17 low at 300 ,whats the diff? Most guys dont shoot much past 2 to 250 anyway. I hate to say it but 200 is a long a@#^*( shot for me.So what cal and what power scope would a avrg shooter need to to make say a 400 yard shot?
Daryl P. THE GUN is most important. NOT CALIBER. few factory rifles can shoot a 5 shot, 5 inch group at 400 yards. the savage lrpv, savage f-class , might. they cost over 900. even fewer can shoot a 5 shot 5 inch group at 500. m
Daryl P. THE GUN is most important. NOT CALIBER. few factory rifles can shoot a 5 shot, 5 inch group at 400 yards. the savage lrpv, savage f-class , might. they cost over 900. even fewer can shoot a 5 shot 5 inch group at 500. m
264WM
New member
Originally Posted By: Ernest III look at some of the vmax boxes at the velocity and trajectory and the 22-250 doesnt seem that much better than the 243. I just wonder what is a great long range cal? On the 243 box I believe it says 2 high at 100 is on at 200 and about 7 low at 300. Well the 22-250 says 1 high at 100 is on at 200 and 5 low at 300. The 243 is around 17 low and the 22-250 is 14 low at 300. Im just going by memeory so done quote me on these numbers. What Im getting at is for the avrg shooter 14 or 17 low at 300 ,whats the diff? Most guys dont shoot much past 2 to 250 anyway. I hate to say it but 200 is a long a@#^*( shot for me.So what cal and what power scope would a avrg shooter need to to make say a 400 yard shot?
Daryl P.
Here is the 264 WM 123gr Amax
Ballistics Table in Yards 264wm 123 gr., .510 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 3500 3394 3291 3092 2901 2719 2544
Energy (ft.-lb)3346 3146 2958 2610 2299 2019 1768
Traj(400 yd.0in)-1.5 1.7 4.1 6.5 5.3 0.0 -10.0
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -3.2 -3.9 -3.1 -1.7 0.0 1.9
The following table is provided as a "cheat sheet" that you can tape to your gun.
Ballistics Table in Yards 264wm 123 gr., .510 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Trajectory (400 yd.0) -1.5 1.7 4.1 6.5 5.3 0.0 -10.0
Come Up in MOA -1.5-3.2-3.9-3.1-1.7 0.0 1.9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ballistics Calculator v1.0
Hornady Mfg, Inc., by ARIS, Inc.
Daryl P.
Here is the 264 WM 123gr Amax
Ballistics Table in Yards 264wm 123 gr., .510 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 3500 3394 3291 3092 2901 2719 2544
Energy (ft.-lb)3346 3146 2958 2610 2299 2019 1768
Traj(400 yd.0in)-1.5 1.7 4.1 6.5 5.3 0.0 -10.0
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -3.2 -3.9 -3.1 -1.7 0.0 1.9
The following table is provided as a "cheat sheet" that you can tape to your gun.
Ballistics Table in Yards 264wm 123 gr., .510 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Trajectory (400 yd.0) -1.5 1.7 4.1 6.5 5.3 0.0 -10.0
Come Up in MOA -1.5-3.2-3.9-3.1-1.7 0.0 1.9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ballistics Calculator v1.0
Hornady Mfg, Inc., by ARIS, Inc.
Jim n Iowa
New member
Long range hunting for me is out to 500 yds, Moose, Bear and ELK. I use a .338 mag. Long range shooting like 1000 yds I like a custom 6.5-284 on a Rem 700 VLS. I started with the .338 on long range first. There are a few shooters at my club that compete at 600 using .308's and do quite well.
Jim
Jim
264WM
New member
Here is the 264WM 107gr
Ballistics Table in Yards 264WM 107gr Sierra HPBT 107 gr., .430 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 3700 3568 3441 3197 2967 2749 2541
Energy (ft.-lb.) 3252 3025 2813 2429 2092 1795 1533
Trajectory (300 yd. zero) -1.5 0.6 2.1 2.7 0.0 -6.7 -17.9
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -1.2 -2.0 -1.3 0.0 1.6 3.4
Ballistics Table in Yards 264WM 107gr Sierra HPBT 107 gr., .430 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 3700 3568 3441 3197 2967 2749 2541
Energy (ft.-lb.) 3252 3025 2813 2429 2092 1795 1533
Trajectory (300 yd. zero) -1.5 0.6 2.1 2.7 0.0 -6.7 -17.9
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -1.2 -2.0 -1.3 0.0 1.6 3.4
264WM
New member
264WM 160gr PPSN woodleigh
Ballistics Table in Yards 264WM 160gr woodleigh 160 gr., .509 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 2900 2808 2718 2542 2374 2211 2056
Energy (ft.-lb.) 2988 2801 2624 2296 2002 1737 1501
Trajectory (300 yd. zero) -1.5 1.8 3.9 4.6 0.0 -10.8 -28.8
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -3.4 -3.7 -2.2 0.0 2.6 5.5
Ballistics Table in Yards 264WM 160gr woodleigh 160 gr., .509 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 2900 2808 2718 2542 2374 2211 2056
Energy (ft.-lb.) 2988 2801 2624 2296 2002 1737 1501
Trajectory (300 yd. zero) -1.5 1.8 3.9 4.6 0.0 -10.8 -28.8
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -3.4 -3.7 -2.2 0.0 2.6 5.5
264WM
New member
264WM 130gr JLK
Ballistics Table in Yards 264WM 130 JLK 130 gr., .630 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 3500 3414 3330 3166 3009 2857 2711
Energy (ft.-lb.) 3536 3364 3200 2894 2614 2357 2121
Trajectory (300 yd. zero) -1.5 0.7 2.2 2.8 0.0 -6.7 -17.6
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -1.4 -2.1 -1.4 0.0 1.6 3.4
Ballistics Table in Yards 264WM 130 JLK 130 gr., .630 B.C. www.hornady.com
Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 3500 3414 3330 3166 3009 2857 2711
Energy (ft.-lb.) 3536 3364 3200 2894 2614 2357 2121
Trajectory (300 yd. zero) -1.5 0.7 2.2 2.8 0.0 -6.7 -17.6
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -1.4 -2.1 -1.4 0.0 1.6 3.4
MO1
New member
Originally Posted By: Ernest III look at some of the vmax boxes at the velocity and trajectory and the 22-250 doesnt seem that much better than the 243. I just wonder what is a great long range cal? On the 243 box I believe it says 2 high at 100 is on at 200 and about 7 low at 300. Well the 22-250 says 1 high at 100 is on at 200 and 5 low at 300. The 243 is around 17 low and the 22-250 is 14 low at 300. Im just going by memeory so done quote me on these numbers. What Im getting at is for the avrg shooter 14 or 17 low at 300 ,whats the diff? Most guys dont shoot much past 2 to 250 anyway. I hate to say it but 200 is a long a@#^*( shot for me.So what cal and what power scope would a avrg shooter need to to make say a 400 yard shot?
Daryl P. The .243 is a much better long range choice than the .22-250. Find some heavier, high ballistic coefficient .243 bullets that your gun likes and it'll very likely make a fine 500 or 600 yard shooter.
Daryl P. The .243 is a much better long range choice than the .22-250. Find some heavier, high ballistic coefficient .243 bullets that your gun likes and it'll very likely make a fine 500 or 600 yard shooter.
nightcaller
Active member
[/quote] The .243 is a much better long range choice than the .22-250. Find some heavier, high ballistic coefficient .243 bullets that your gun likes and it'll very likely make a fine 500 or 600 yard shooter.[/quote]
i'd like to know why you think the .243 is "much better" for his application; because i disagree. which of the two calibers are you currently shooting to those ranges?
i'd like to know why you think the .243 is "much better" for his application; because i disagree. which of the two calibers are you currently shooting to those ranges?
Hey fellow pm hunters. I dont know what long range is. For me I would say long range is 3 to 400 yards. Im a good shot but actually 200 is long enough for a hunting situation for me. I was just asking out of cuiosity. Another reason is I have drawn the conclusion that 308 is and all around long range caliber. I am in no way a 1000 yard shooter just curious what a decent long range caliber was with a fairly flat or flatest trajectory was and mainly I guess I was thinking 500 to 600 yards as long range. To me that is really long range. Just wanted some opinions ,, didnt mean to start a big caliber debate.
Thanks Daryl P.
Thanks Daryl P.
MO1
New member
Originally Posted By: nightcalleri'd like to know why you think the .243 is "much better" for his application; because i disagree. which of the two calibers are you currently shooting to those ranges?
It's much better because you're able to shoot 100 to 115 grain bullets with a much higher ballistic coefficient and carry much more energy to the target. Light bullets suck at long range, getting blown all over by wind.
It's not even a comparison really, the .243 is in a differentl league when it comes to longer range ability. Run some numbers and see for yourself - or better yet do some long range shooting with each and you'll see it firsthand.
It's much better because you're able to shoot 100 to 115 grain bullets with a much higher ballistic coefficient and carry much more energy to the target. Light bullets suck at long range, getting blown all over by wind.
It's not even a comparison really, the .243 is in a differentl league when it comes to longer range ability. Run some numbers and see for yourself - or better yet do some long range shooting with each and you'll see it firsthand.
nightcaller
Active member
Originally Posted By: MO1Originally Posted By: nightcalleri'd like to know why you think the .243 is "much better" for his application; because i disagree. which of the two calibers are you currently shooting to those ranges?
It's much better because you're able to shoot 100 to 115 grain bullets with a much higher ballistic coefficient and carry much more energy to the target. Light bullets suck at long range, getting blown all over by wind.
It's not even a comparison really, the .243 is in a differentl league when it comes to longer range ability. Run some numbers and see for yourself - or better yet do some long range shooting with each and you'll see it firsthand.
sounds like someone reads too much and understands too little. i know the feeling, i was that way for all 6 years of high school, but my GED was graspable with a little effort!
i've had this discussion with me, myself and I a few times and my wife is getting sick of the three of us always argueing. but ok i'll run the numbers one more time just for you.
energy is mute in a conversation assuming coyotes, and smaller game, are the target.
lets compare two common loads from the .243 to see how your high BC bullets give the claimed advantage:
-70gr sierra blitzking (love this load for coyotes)
BC: .299
3535fps
500 yard drop: 7.66moa (40.12")
5 mph wind: 2.05moa (10.7")
-115 Berger VLD
BC: .545 (pretty impressive!)
2900 fps
500 yard drop: 9.94moa (52.09")
5 mph wind: 1.34moa (7")
i'm not going to give a full analysis of the results; i'll let everyone decipher them for themselves. but.....maybe you should rethink your claims about the high
BC bullets at that range. they do nothing for you! me and myself win this arguement quite often and I hates losing it. although we all agree that after about 650yds the benefits of the high BC really exposes itself to you. (in a good way.... i enjoy it anyway!)
It's much better because you're able to shoot 100 to 115 grain bullets with a much higher ballistic coefficient and carry much more energy to the target. Light bullets suck at long range, getting blown all over by wind.
It's not even a comparison really, the .243 is in a differentl league when it comes to longer range ability. Run some numbers and see for yourself - or better yet do some long range shooting with each and you'll see it firsthand.
sounds like someone reads too much and understands too little. i know the feeling, i was that way for all 6 years of high school, but my GED was graspable with a little effort!
i've had this discussion with me, myself and I a few times and my wife is getting sick of the three of us always argueing. but ok i'll run the numbers one more time just for you.
energy is mute in a conversation assuming coyotes, and smaller game, are the target.
lets compare two common loads from the .243 to see how your high BC bullets give the claimed advantage:
-70gr sierra blitzking (love this load for coyotes)
BC: .299
3535fps
500 yard drop: 7.66moa (40.12")
5 mph wind: 2.05moa (10.7")
-115 Berger VLD
BC: .545 (pretty impressive!)
2900 fps
500 yard drop: 9.94moa (52.09")
5 mph wind: 1.34moa (7")
i'm not going to give a full analysis of the results; i'll let everyone decipher them for themselves. but.....maybe you should rethink your claims about the high
BC bullets at that range. they do nothing for you! me and myself win this arguement quite often and I hates losing it. although we all agree that after about 650yds the benefits of the high BC really exposes itself to you. (in a good way.... i enjoy it anyway!)