What is a Decoy dog?

Devin, I am not in the same class as you and a few others on here. I like my dogs a little bigger as the coyotes seem to not charge in and take a bite out of them. I would love to kill every coyote that I call when using my dogs, but want to keep my dogs unharmed as a first priority. Decoy dogs(loose term) have become a way for guys like me to expand the way we hunt coyotes. There are a lot of things that most of the recreational guys will never do with their dogs. I would venture to say that most recreational guys, myself included, look to get the "show" 6-12 times a year. By show I mean having the dogs and hunter really come together and look like they know what they are doing! I hunt my dogs more than that but have days where coyotes don’t cooperate, dogs are hunting for themselves, or I flat blow it with a miss. I really enjoy having the dogs to hunt with and am not disappointed when they are not the magic weapon that guarantees I will kill coyotes. I appreciate your insight in using dogs for coyotes. Maybe this thread should have been titled- The difference between coyote dogs, recreational vs professional? I would be interested in seeing how many traits overlap between the two and what are important to the pro vs recreational caller?
 
Ya, I would hope you wouldn't be in the same class with me (lower class), that would suck for you.
So since you like the bigger dogs because they don't come in and bite, do you think that you may loose some for the very same reason?
I have seen with the smaller dogs, I have lost coyotes becasue they were getting their butts chewed on and they couldn't get back to me, I had to go to them and that ruined the chance to get them killed. That is why I thought the medium sized dog would be the way to go. But me thinking is a scary thought too.
Pro vs recreational caller, Take the best bred pup with everything going for him and don't give him the chance and you will still have just a dog. Kind of like not letting a kid go to middle and high school and then sending him to college. It is just not going to work as good as if he would have had the pre schooling.
I don't think a idiot like me would ever be able to figure out the full potential of my dogs ablity and I know I have ruined more good dogs that most guys ever own.
 

"So since you like the bigger dogs because they don't come in and bite, do you think that you may loose some for the very same reason?"

I feel it depends on the time of year. Early/mid spring when coyotes are defending a den/home area it doesn't seem to matter much to the dominate pair and beta female, if there is one helping out. They are very killable. Year old dogs seem to know their place and don't want anything to do with any other K9. If they do come in they usually sit and watch from a distance, being careful not to move when the dogs are looking their way. Most of those coyotes can be shot, just at a longer distance than the alphas. The rest of the year I get few coyotes to respond aggressively. They will sit and watch from a distance or want to, for lack of a better word, play. When the dogs engage the sitters they will often run the coyote out of the area. The "playful" coyotes are easy to kill. So dog size seems to matter less in breeding season than most of the year. These are just my observations from the limited time I spend dogging coyotes. Have you seen diferent? As far as "lower class", I would have to move up a few classes just to have "no class"
 
Devin didn't ask the ? to me, but I'll answer anyway.
I like 50 to 60 #, I do breed for that size, I have dam sure had bigger over the years, and made changes.
The "big" dog, Dustballs, is talking about is one of mine, from a litter a few years ago. The stud was,95# catahoula, the [beeep] was,80# Black and Tan.Those pups ended up "big",(to be expected), after using them to decoy, I decided not to make the same cross again.They work well, just bigger than what I wanted.As stated before, they are affected by heat, yotes are more timid, they break down, are not as fast,or agile and of course eat more.(when feeding 20 dogs that is something to look at.)I still use that stud to decoy, and lots of other stuff, but want my pups smaller. I started breeding to a Cur female.Some of the pups have the traits I like,and most are the "right size". I do get a "big" pup now and then, but some guys like a bigger dog.
As for best breed??????????
When I figure that one out, I'll have a few.
There is no right or wrong answer to any of these ?'s.
I don't know anyone that is successful, thats doing the same thing now they were doing when they started, whether it was 5 years ago, or 25 years ago. Experience has a way of making a a person look at things from a diff angle.
(By the way, Dustballs dog "Zipper" is the dog in my avatar")
 
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Speaking of size, my two dogs came from Duane and my male is right at a year old and 56 pounds on the dot. My female is the same age and is sitting at around 48 to 50 pounds. In my opinion big enough to handle coyotes, and small enough to avoid the down sides of a "big" dog.
DaFUnk
 
Originally Posted By: Wackmaster
Have you seen diferent?
I have. On a very small dogs ( Jack Russel or Jagd size)to a smaller med sized dog, really anything smaller than a coyote, but the smaller the better. Coyotes will and least come close enough to get the scent or size up the dog, but never really hang up like with a bigger dog.

Originally Posted By: BoeydafunkSpeaking of size, my two dogs came from Duane and my male is right at a year old and 56 pounds on the dot. My female is the same age and is sitting at around 48 to 50 pounds. In my opinion big enough to handle coyotes, and small enough to avoid the down sides of a "big" dog.
DaFUnk

I would concider that a large dog.

Originally Posted By: kerstinlinne"My idea of a 'decoy dog' is a dog that will provide a 'focus' for the approaching coyote to concentrate on. ."

Wow, thank you for this information, now I know what is decoy dog. great post.

I don't think you really need a dog to achive this, They make many decoys that don't eat anything.

Not one of you have hit on color of the dog, does it or doesn't it have anything to do with the game we are playing? Does it affect or could it affect a coyote from running out of the country or hanging up bad
 
I would agree that my dogs are certainly larger than a jack russel or Jagd sized dogs, but I never have to watch my dogs when out. A coyote or even two or three isnt going to grab my dog and take off. Im not saying one would with your dogs either, Im just saying that I think that size just like everything is a compromise. As far as color goes I have a light golden brown and a dark brown brindle dog and coyotes dont look at them any different. Would white work better? Not sure, its a great question. I know that they bred dogos white so that hunters could see them in the terrain. Would love some others oppinions on this.
DaFUnk
 
I have seen coyotes tear up dogs bigger than yours so I wouldn't feel to safe. As for "a compromise" I guess it is how you look at it, I feel you are compromising more than I with larger dogs.
As far as coyotes taking off with my dogs, it's never happened.
In your case, I would think they are looking at the size of the dog more than the color of yours.
Coyotes are not at the top of the predator list and there are many other animals that can put a whoopin on a coyote so I believe the size of a animal that a coyote is going to take on is very, very inportant to it. Remember, this is a game to us and our dogs but it is no game for a coyote.
 
Here is one time that living in LV has some huge advantages. You have to look for a farm within 45 minutews of my house. Alot of the places that I hunt have never been exposed to anykind of decoy or coyote dogs period. Coyotes are not exposed to dogs here exept the fat and lazy house dogs who are taken every year. In my case I think you could show up with any kind of dog, and get some coyotes. Other places where coyots know dogs are tougher, Im sure they stay away.
DaFunk
 
The main thing that you need to remember is that your dog has to be trained to comeback to you. I knew a rancher that carried 4 greyhounds with him while feeding his cows. 2 greyhounds would be able to chase down a coyote, but the coyote still had enough fight left in him to kill one of those greyhounds. He would follow the dogs until they got the coyote turned, and then he would release the other two to finish it off.

I really like the beeper collar, my dog is trained to return to me when he hears the beeper go off. If he doesn't, he knows what's next.

I think size does play a roll into a coyotes thinking. They are oportunistic hunters and really do prefer easier meals. My dog is right about 40 lbs. I have tried to bulk him up, but that is his frame and he moves really good with that weight.
 
Originally Posted By: Devin69I don't think you really need a dog to achive this, They make many decoys that don't eat anything.
Absolutely. I'm just doing this for fun, and if it don't work my pup will hopefully still tree me a squirrel or coon every now & again. By no means do I think having a 'decoy' dog on stand is some kind of magic attractant. Ya still gotta call the coyote to a spot to where it can see the 'decoy', be it a dog or otherwise.
With the terrain I usually hunt, that usually puts the coyote already within rifle range! Like I mentioned before, I don't know of anyone around here that utilizes a 'decoy' dog, so I'm just messin' around to see how it works out. If I don't, I won't be disappointed in my pup. He's already a top notch companion...

Quote:Not one of you have hit on color of the dog, does it or doesn't it have anything to do with the game we are playing? Does it affect or could it affect a coyote from running out of the country or hanging up bad

My pup's 'red' color is kinda hard to pick up in the fall woods. Out in the green meadows, he sticks out like a sore thumb. And he'll prolly do the same on a blanket of snow. There is NO mistaking him for another coyote, don't know if that is good or bad?

I suspect that some of you guys out west hunt around ranches with sheep where 'protection dogs' are in use? Some breed of big, white fluffy beast that looks like a sheep? I know there is a sheep farm up where I hunt & the farmer has a Great Pyrenees to 'guard' his flock.
So, if the local coyotes associated "danger" with a big white dog, then a white 'decoy' dog might do more harm than good around there?
Jury's out on what works here, so I'll have to find out for myself how & if my red pup 'works'. I do know that alot of coon hunters in NY & PA have had their coon hounds surrounded at night by coyotes, and they are all different colors! Tri-color Walkers, Black & Tans, & Redbones, just the same.

Just guessin' here, but I think the relevance of size is more a factor than would be color. Coyotes out west tend to be smaller then these NE coyotes by a fair margin. So hopefully, I can get away with using a 50lb. cur on a 45lb. male Eastern coyote just the same as a 35 lb. Jagd works on a 30 lb. male western coyote?
 
Originally Posted By: knockemdownJust guessin' here, but I think the relevance of size is more a factor than would be color. Coyotes out west tend to be smaller then these NE coyotes by a fair margin. So hopefully, I can get away with using a 50lb. cur on a 45lb. male Eastern coyote just the same as a 35 lb. Jagd works on a 30 lb. male western coyote?
Man if you can find a 35lb pure jagd, let me know that would be the ticket there. That sucker would take on 6 coyotes at once and whoop them all.lol
 
Originally Posted By: knockemdown
I suspect that some of you guys out west hunt around ranches with sheep where 'protection dogs' are in use? Some breed of big, white fluffy beast that looks like a sheep? I know there is a sheep farm up where I hunt & the farmer has a Great Pyrenees to 'guard' his flock.
So, if the local coyotes associated "danger" with a big white dog, then a white 'decoy' dog might do more harm than good around there?


On the main ranch I hunt, besides the cattle, my brother runs around 225 nanny goats to eat brush and cause my old man much aggravation. He's got quite a few GP dogs running with them. I've called many coyotes in the same pasture or adjoining pastures with a decoy dog. I haven't had any real problems with coyotes crossing under the fence to get after the dog. I've seen them not too far from the goats and dogs at different times, so I think they don't pay too much attention to the goat dogs as long as they keep their distance.
 
It may be just me but I know in the past the dogs that have always taken the most damage from coyotes were my larger dogs. I know they couldn't move as fast and when they got on a coyote they tried to use their strength to dominate the coyote not their brains to out think them. This usually resulted in them being over the top of a coyote and taking major damage from the coyote fighting up toward their soft under bellys and legs.

As for color.....I personally believe it has very little to do with it. Like I said above I've used just about every color dog and really havn't noticed the coyote have any different reactions to any one color 100% of the time. Now if the rancher has white dogs, those particular coyotes may respond differently to white colored dogs due to past exp. with the local cow dog. If he was an a$$ kicker they may hold back, but if he was a push over they may boil in looking to push him around. But those are only observations that deal with particular coyotes from a particular area. I believe that the reactions of coyotes to our dogs is based on the coyotes previous exp. and the individual dog we are using.

Devin what have you observed with color and the different reactions of coyotes?

Tim
 
Here's another question. Do you think that dominate alpha type dogs work better or do you feel that the more timid beta type make better coyote decoy dogs?

I know what I think but I'll let some others post their opinions on it first and then chime in.

Tim
 
What people want out of a dog varies as well as breed. I've tried airedales,curs and hounds. Some were good others a disaster. One thing I do know is that to end up with good dogs you have to cull when needed.
I prefer a dog with some grit. That will stick to a cripple and keep it up against a bush or rock till I get there.That if need be will take some punishment,but give it too. I prefer a hot nose since the track shouldn't be that old as well as the desire to trail. On stand I've a preference for a dog to stick close. The best dog I ever saw work on stand stayed within 20 yards of the guys hunting. She knew the coyotes were coming to the sound. She stood there watching and waiting for a coyote to come in. I saw that dog work coyotes very differently. From a soft gently approach to hard charging. It my opinion that dog sized up a coyotes confidence level and worked them accordingly. This dog did not belong to me. I also feel she was the exception rather than the rule for most dogs. I killed around 50 coyotes over this dog. She was at the end of her good years. Her name was Mickey and she belongs to John Henry. I've never seen another dog in the same caliber as her. Most likely never will.
I currently hunt an airedale female, Lilly she small for an airedale around 45-50 lbs. I prefer a smaller dog because I feel it is less intimadating to most coyote but mostly YOY. I've seen coyotes you couldn't run off a stand. But for most a small dog works better in my opinion. Breed wise I like airedales but am also trying a cur at this time as well. For just trapping I run a bluetick cross for doing drag work. But the best dog is the one that works for you and your conditions.
Brent
 
This is a great topic!

Originally Posted By: Devin69Not one of you have hit on color of the dog, does it or doesn't it have anything to do with the game we are playing? Does it affect or could it affect a coyote from running out of the country or hanging up bad

I had an ADC guy tell me once that the yellow dogs can work longer in the heat than the darker dogs. Devin have you found that to be the case?
 
Originally Posted By: DTOMHere's another question. Do you think that dominate alpha type dogs work better or do you feel that the more timid beta type make better coyote decoy dogs?

I know what I think but I'll let some others post their opinions on it first and then chime in.

Tim
I don't think that matters. An "alpha" dog must not have too much and be able to stop and come back when asked, and a more "timid" dog must have enough grit to him to engage a coyote and not quit when bit.
Just depnds on the dog. Like Brent saidOriginally Posted By: Brent Parker One thing I do know is that to end up with good dogs you have to cull when needed.
I have said it before. A good decoy dog is very, very hard to come by. Not every dog is going to make one. I don't know of anyone that has ever tried to create a breed just for decoying coyotes except Vern Dorn.
Originally Posted By: DoubleCK
I had an ADC guy tell me once that the yellow dogs can work longer in the heat than the darker dogs. Devin have you found that to be the case? No I don't believe that one bit. I have had a bunch of yellow and white dogs and these black dogs I have now will run circles around them in the heat, and not stop.
 
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