What is a Decoy dog?

i have seen a decoy dog go out and get a coyote and bring them in for a shot, not once but 3 times, then again the same dog would heal by our side as we walk in to a set and a coyote on the hill spotted the dog and barked at us until we got a 300 yd shot, the word decoy in my opinion keeps the coyotes focus on the( decoy dog) not the hunter, thus the word decoy, now i have only hunted with duane from shooters services so i have no other to compare to, and i think duane has some of the best dogs around my parts anyway,
 
Holy Crap Tony, I got confused just reading what you wanted out of your dogs, If your dogs got all that figured out they are some smart son of a guns.lol
Keep em coming guys.
Maybe some guys will start asking why? Because I would love to hear some explanations.
I love to see the word Tolling, when you do, you can almost bet they are a terrier guy or got it from a terrier guy. John Henry loves to use that.
Decoy would descibe something to take the coyotes eyes off the hunter. Decoy dog could describe something else?? Maybe??
 
Here is an interesting description of how a tolling dog works for waterfowl:

Tollers are named for their ability to entice or lure waterfowl, called "tolling". The hunter stays hidden in a blind and sends the dog out to romp and play near the water, usually by tossing a ball or stick to be retrieved. Like a fox, the dog's unusual activity and white markings pique the curiosity of ducks and geese, who swim over to investigate.[2] When the birds are close, the hunter calls the dog back to the blind, then rises, putting the birds to flight, allowing him a shot. The Toller then retrieves any downed birds.

Now how would tolling for coyotes be similar??

I think the perfect dog (tolling or decoying) would theoretically be black and white like a Holstein cow. They would be very easy to see in a variety of conditions. Considering canines see in shades of white and gray. White and Black would be the extremes on both ends of the spectrum.
 
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Excellent question Devin and some really good responses. Dtom just about nailed it for me. I'm betting most of the responses will be very similar with a few twists involving particular tastes and/or terrain being hunted.

Heck, that's why most of us have more than one dog. We're looking for a little something different in each dog.

I'm enjoying the responses.
 
I want a Bubba!!!!!! Those videos that Mike posts are amazing.

What I want(key words) is a dog that takes the focus off of me for a few extra seconds to get squared on a shot. I would like him to find wounded coyotes and or cats. I would like him to stay close, and not wander too far away. I have taken him out and from what I have seen so far, the coyotes really do focus on the dog rather than the big ol lump in the field with the little stick in his arms. Alot of times that is all that I need to get a shot off. I would like him to be able to hold(or bay) a coyote until I can get him finished off. I work on Tug staying with me on stand by releasing my GSP and keep telling him, "right here" to make him stay and then once I say "where is he", Tug immediately starts scanning the area looking for my GSP. Once he sees him, he starts to whimper or whine until I give him the "go get him" command.

I am NAIVE to this aspect of coyote hunting, I will probly never have the perfect dog. But that being said, if it works for me, that will be ok. I will be satisfied, any shortcomings that the dog might have will probly because I didn't teach him, mostly cuz I didn't know any better.
 
Ok I guess I will get it going again.
Size, I believe size is a issue with coyotes, I think from a distance they will come closer but 9 times out of 10 will stop just out of shooting disstance and size up a bigger dog. I have noticed with a smaller dog they do not hang up as much and you can use them most of the year, not just durring denning season. Even with yearlings coyotes, they see a small dog and it is game on.With a yearling coyote and a bigger dog, they turn and run, game over.
The biggest problem with small dogs is, they get hurt more often unless they learn to pair up with another dog.(and they do)
Another problem is, the smaller dog can not be seen in the taller grass or brush. So if using a smaller dog it must be a busy dog and range further so a coyote can pick it up by its scent.
Another reason I beleive a bigger dog and size is an issue is the place you are calling. If you are calling in or by livestock, the gaurd dogs and stock dogs may be why the coyotes wont play with your dogs. Gaurd dogs and stock dogs have taught the coyotes not to stop, they run them out of the area. This may also apply in rual residential areas where dogs roam freely. Or next ot big farms or ranches.
Big dogs still work during denning season but my belief is some still don't play and you may never see them.
Just something to think about, not gosple just a oppinion.
 
Most of the guys posting here have forgotten more about dogs than I'll ever know, but as was mentioned previously, the reason I take a dog on stand is to take the coyote's attention off of me. If Halle sees a coyote, she'll raise cain and chase it for a while or until I tone her and then come back to me. If she doesn't see it, at least she'll hold it's attention long enough for me to let the air out of it's lungs.

Where I hunt is a lot of ozarks hills that have been cleaned off over the years by axes, billy goats, and bulldozers, and coyotes can see the dog from a long way off. I can only imagine how far they could see out west.
 
After reading another post here in "LIONS", I feel I need to clarify one thing, real quick.

I had NOT read the 'dogs at night' post, or seen the embedded video before posting my thoughts in this thread.
(tend to skip over the informercial type posts)
Therefore, wanted to clarify that my opinion expressed in THIS post was not at all a rebuttal to anything I just watched or read in the 'dogs at night' post. Rather my sincere thoughts on this topic, at hand.

Hoping that doesn't 'muddy' the water of this thread, as I think this topic may continue to bring valued responses from experienced hunters.

thanks...
 
Tolling to me is a dog that ranges around the stand depending upon terrain and actively "hunts" game. More aggressive coyotes will engage them and my dogs will come to me with coyote in tow.

Decoying is when the dog’s don’t see the coyote and the coyote is content to sit and watch the dogs. Decoyed coyotes often turn into tolled coyotes.

In both cases the coyotes attention will be on the dog to give me better shot oppertunities.

I find that 2 dogs in the spring and early summer work best, it seems to get the coyotes more riled up and helps for dog safety.

Depending on the distance that a coyote howls from me the dogs should toll out and engage it and bring it back. If the coyote is to far out I will move closer to it so the dogs engage.

I want my dogs to bay cripples.
I want my dogs to run to the shot coyote and shake them while I am still on stand.

I absolutely require dogs to return to me when signaled and ignore livestock and deer, elk, etc.


I feel that the dogs should be about coyote sized 30-50# and I like short haired dogs.

Like it has been said, eveyones idea is a little different.
 
Heres what I think about size. I want a dog that is big enough to handle fighting one or more coyotes if it had to, but also one who is small and agile enough to be afeild all day and not get hip and joint problems. My 45 pound female and my 56 pound male right around a year old, did not scare off the coyote that was headed my way hard two days ago. My brother changing the noise coming from the foxpro did however make that coyote head for the hills. My dogs are a catahoula mix from Duane and are in my opinion the perfect size.
DaFUnk
 

I realize that many of us, use our dogs for things besides "decoying".But if I could build a perfect "decoy dog", right now this is where I would start.
I like a decoy dog to range a few hundred yards,(any where out to a mile depending on terrain) come back to "check in", then leave out again.
I want a dog to "yo-yo" a coyote till it is shot, or quits the game.
If a yote hangs up, I want the dog to go to them, and tease them back to me.If a yote leaves the country, I want the dog to follow "aways", but not chase it to Canada.
If the dog is at the calling stand, I don't want them to close to me,or other hunters, because I feel the dog does draw attention.
I want them to find cripples, catch or bay, is fine with me.
I think size does matter,although the big dogs can and do decoy some aggressive yotes, many times the yotes will hang up and just bark at the dog, while the dog is trying to tease them in, then run off.Smaller dogs, the yotes tend to be "braver".
The size I like is 50 to 60#'s.
Big dogs are effected more by heat,big bone,and lots of muscle, makes the big dogs slower, they also tend to get sore more than the smaller dogs.Besides that they eat more.
I don't want my decoy dogs chasing any livestock,when we are hunting.
Most of the time I use two dogs, in the late winter and spring, and summer. In the fall I most times use one dog.
Color is not so important to me,depending on where I am hunting, any dog from full black to full white, could be easy to see, or dam near invisible.
I like more of a hotnose dog, just enough nose to find a coyote, but not so much they wanna take a 3 hr old track.

Since my first dog, my ideas have changed, I have made lots of mistakes(and still do) my ideas I'm sure will change again, as I learn.
Duane
 
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Good point Duane, That is not my style of dog either, but it seems to be the liking of most the guys on here. But if you are taking a dog and it sits in your lap or very close to you, more than likly you wont get a shot off anyway.
Wackmaster that is a heck of a range on the weight of dog you like.
When everyone puts their likes of their dogs, please explain why or what purpose that type of dog suites you.

I guess the reason I started this post is because over the years when people have posted anything about a decoy dog there has been hard feelings and alot of confusion, and I can see why now. A couple of guys have explained the type of dog I would like to have but the majority just want a dog to sit close and track a wounded coyote. I don't know that there is a wrong or right way to do it but I do beleive we all need to be on the same page as to what kind of dog we are talking about.
 
i can testify to the work and effort duane puts into his dogs, i have hunted over several of his decoy dogs and he seems to have it nailed down, but his open mind to change tells me that his dogs will only get better, and anyone wanting a top notch great hunt should book a day, i have had half day hunts that were full of coyotes and gun powder.
 
I say 30-50# as a smallest to largest range for my uses. My female is about 36# and male 52#.I guess I should have said 35# to 50#. I was out this morning with just my male and had 3 different coyotes hang up when they spotted him. He is not as aggressive as my female and at least 2 of the coyotes were YOY the other looked older and was the only one that didnt bug out.
 
Lots of days are "discouraging" this time of year, trying to decoy.
My thoughts on the reasons, YOY yotes are scared of everything, including their own shadow, they also get whipped by every older yote they run into. The older yotes have been chased, called, decoyed, shot at from the road, a plane, so on and so forth. Also all the cattlemen are either in the middle of, or finishing fall gathering.Right or wrong, all the cowboys I know (myself included)will sic our cowdogs on a yote to get it out where it can be killed.
Yotes that live around ranches, can be real nervous when they see even one small dog.
Part of what makes yotes fun to hunt, "they ain't no dumbies".
 
See duane, where I live and mostly hunt, no ranches, ranchers and really no guys hunting with dogs. I am the first that I know of to use your style dog where I live and am starting to see it pay off. Had one come in, but it got spooked by the changing of sounds on an e call and took off. I missed the running shot and my dogs arnt quite confident enough for a long chase yet. I think by Jan/Feb that coyote would have been mine.
DaFUnk
 
Originally Posted By: WackmasterI say 30-50# as a smallest to largest range for my uses. My female is about 36# and male 52#.I guess I should have said 35# to 50#.
What do you like about those sizes or dislikes ? Are you shooting for that size when breeding or is it just what you have ended up with? I would love to hear everyones ideal size of dog and WHY?
I am breeding for as small a dog as I can possibly get away with. The 2 jagds I had that I worked decoying learned very fast that they needed to work together and they did it very well. On the other hand they have to have a whole lot of Grit and alot of brains to go along with it. This is a game that the dog must hunt for me, not for itself.
The decoy dogs I have right now would top the scales at 30# if soaking wet.
I believe the smaller dog does not scare the coyotes nearly as bad as a bigger dog. Like Duane said they hold up alot better more agile and quicker in tight spots. Don't give out on me when the temp starts rising.
 
One of my dogs is a very muscular long legged 68 pounds. He is very fast, agile, and can run all day. I like everything about him it is just that the coyotes dont seem to care for him.

The other one is a very short, strong 50lbs. She runs slow, ok agile wise, and has no range. I wish she was faster and had more range. She has more grit than my male which I really like. I have noticed that the coyotes do work the smaller dog better, and more often.

This is what I have ended up with as far as the size and they are working for what I do. In the future I will try and stay 50lbs or less.
 
Those dogs spend almost every minute with me. I had them working very good until they died in the fire. This male I have now is doing a good job but a little tougher to bring back. I don't think you could do it with any Jagd,or maybe it is just raising them from a pup and putting in a million hours of training on them lol.
I want them to engage it is the dis engage part that is the tough part, and tougher than that is to engage,dis engage and engage and dis engage. But I agree the Jagds are not the best dog for the job. Which brings me to the next subject.....
What is the best breed for the job of decoying or tolling? If I wanted a decoy dog or a dog to sit by my side as a decoy. I would want something real small, even grandma's [beeep] [beeep] dog. Something of the toy or Jagd, Jack Russel size.
For the game I am wanting to play, I have tried the curs (and alot of them), Airdales, Border collies, Jagds, Jack Russels, Airedale/Irish cross and a bunch of crossed up dogs.
The curs did not have enough prey drive for me. The Airedales had to much grit, not calling them off, the border collie was to focused on livestock when hunting by some
The best ones I have had have been a crossed up dog with some terrier (Jagd/Airedale)in it but bred to be within 30 to 35 lb range.
 
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