TSS shot testing

Originally Posted By: spotstalkshootHow is TSS "graded"? It seems that there are different densities available and the cost is density related. I also wondered about mixing 4 and 2 in a high velocity 2 3/4 inch.

TSS is a density of 18 or greater. Anything below that isn't TSS. I don't know of cost being density dependent (my cost to purchase isn't any different than the folks selling for way more, and both come from the same factory). The only difference is that you just have others that are selling at a higher price.
 
Originally Posted By: crapshootMakes me wish I knew someone who reloaded shotgun. Pretty awesome stuff.

We can help you get started in the right direction to handload.
 
Originally Posted By: blingslingerThe only difference is that you just have others that have jacked the price up to seemingly pad their pockets.


Could we leave this kind of crap OUT of this thread please. If you want to troll this thread for business, so be it. But be civil about it.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: steve garrettWould a mix of 2 and 4 shot ever be an advantage? Oh and the world is begging to know what the the 2's will do at 80 and beyond.

The duplex might be great. Might not be as good as straight 4's or straight 2's in some situations too though. I'd like to pattern test it and field test it to find out.

World wants 80 yard patterns the world best get to it then. Be waiting a long, long time for me.

- DAA
 
Dave, here is a thought. I have a duplex load of #4 buck and copper plated BB's(28#4 buck and 11 copper plated BB). I used the BB's as a filler and it worked well. This load pattened very, very well with the 10" center getting chewed up pretty bad at 40 yards. The Pay load was 1 1/2 oz to 1 5/8 oz and I shot it at 1275 fps with 35g of Blue Dot in a BP 12 wad with two slits and a BP gas seal. I think that a much tighter load would be to use the gas seal, proper height fiber wad, and a Teflon wrap, but my job was eating my life up at that point and testing time was very limited.

I also shot a duplex load(1 7/8 oz) of lead BB and copper plated #2 back when Cats were worth $450 apiece. I was running out of room in the shot column for all BB's, so I put half bb and half #2 and the shot column worked out perfect for the correct crimp. Controlling crimp is critical for uniform pressures with slow burning shot shell powders.

This approach may work with your F buck load and #4 TSS. Pay Load is pay load, and don't forget that buffer adds to the pay load weight.

I am just brain storming of course.
 
Originally Posted By: DAAOriginally Posted By: steve garrettWould a mix of 2 and 4 shot ever be an advantage? Oh and the world is begging to know what the the 2's will do at 80 and beyond.

The duplex might be great. Might not be as good as straight 4's or straight 2's in some situations too though. I'd like to pattern test it and field test it to find out.

World wants 80 yard patterns the world best get to it then. Be waiting a long, long time for me.

- DAA

Could probably build a load with a heavier payload, and stack it with #4s and #2s, as not to lose your pellet count with #2s. However it would recoil more.
 
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What is the advantage of a duplex load? At the shorter ranges where the smaller pellets are effective the pellet count in the working portion of the pattern with larger shot pellets is high enough to work just fine. Taking away some of the larger pellets and substitute smaller shot in the shell can only affect the long range effectiveness of the pattern. Doesn't make sense to me...
 
Originally Posted By: GCWhat is the advantage of a duplex load? At the shorter ranges where the smaller pellets are effective the pellet count in the working portion of the pattern with larger shot pellets is high enough to work just fine. Taking away some of the larger pellets and substitute smaller shot in the shell can only affect the long range effectiveness of the pattern. Doesn't make sense to me...

The advantage of a duplex, would be to build it so that the smaller shot would spread in the back, and give you better coverage up close, so it's not like shooting a rifle at 20 yds. The larger shot will stay out front, and do the work at longer ranges. It would be a single all range load, but to keep the 1 5/8 oz of #2s, it would require a larger payload, probably around 2 1/4 oz. that would give you 5/8 oz of #4s under 1 5/8 oz of #2s.
 
I just don't think that TSS #4 shot will spread out much at 30 yards and less and if TSS #2 shot is giving a killing pattern at 70 yards it should be a killing pattern from 20 yards to 70 yards.

A long time ago I made duplex loads with lead T shot and copper coated lead #2 shot for hunting in areas that I could only see 30 to 45 yards. I ended up going back to just using the lead T shot because the lead #2 didn't work very good on coyotes going away.
 
Originally Posted By: derbyacresbobI just don't think that TSS #4 shot will spread out much at 30 yards and less and if TSS #2 shot is giving a killing pattern at 70 yards it should be a killing pattern from 20 yards to 70 yards.

A long time ago I made duplex loads with lead T shot and copper coated lead #2 shot for hunting in areas that I could only see 30 to 45 yards. I ended up going back to just using the lead T shot because the lead #2 didn't work very good on coyotes going away.

Bob you can build one to specifically spread the #4s and not the #2s, it's been done with turkey loads before. It just takes a bit of tinkering to develop.
 
Why spread the load when a coyotes vitals are 10" - 12"? Broken leg, gut shot coyotes go a long dammm way. It still makes no sense, #2's would kill them red dead at 25 yards AND at 60 yards. Substituting smaller shot weakens the long range capabilities. Which is why a guy would be using TSS in the first place. I don't need TSS until I get to longer ranges so handicapping that potential doesn't make sense to me.

 
Originally Posted By: GCWhy spread the load when a coyotes vitals are 10" - 12"? Broken leg, gut shot coyotes go a long dammm way. It still makes no sense, #2's would kill them red dead at 25 yards AND at 60 yards. Substituting smaller shot weakens the long range capabilities. Which is why a guy would be using TSS in the first place. I don't need TSS until I get to longer ranges so handicapping that potential doesn't make sense to me.



GC,

The reason you want to spread the smaller shot in the rear of the shot string in the load, is because if it patterns as DAA has shown it does at 70 yds, at 25 you are shooting essentially a rifle, and if you are off by a small margin, you have a cripple that you might not recover. If you spread the shot to say a 15" pattern by spreading the #4s, they will take care of up close shots, and assure that you get good coverage, while the #2s are left to do the long range work.

Here is a load that was developed for turkeys, with #6 and #7 Hevishot, to spread the smaller #7s, and not the #6s. It gave a nice more open pattern at 25 yds, a tight pattern at 40 yds, and still gave a killing pattern at 60 yds. Although this was with Hevi, the same principles should stand true with TSS. After talking with the person that developed this load, the plan might be worth a go for using TSS on coyotes.

**The last pic is of a 25 yd pattern of a 1 3/4 oz load of #6 Hevi that was not designed to spread.**

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Not to argue, for the sake of the discussion I'll assert that the difference between a 25 yard pattern of 10" - 12" and one of 15" isn't going to make any difference at close range. Most shotgun guys aren't missing coyotes by inches but rather by feet.
 
Originally Posted By: GCNot to argue, for the sake of the discussion I'll assert that the difference between a 25 yard pattern of 10" - 12" and one of 15" isn't going to make any difference at close range. Most shotgun guys aren't missing coyotes by inches but rather by feet.

Not to argue either, it is what it is, but a #2 TSS pattern at 25 yds will not likely be 10-12 inches, but rather very very small.
 
how would a person go about getting a load pressure tested?

i am guessing you send a loaded shell somewhere along with a payment, they test and send you the results?

if that is correct, who and how much?
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnothow would a person go about getting a load pressure tested?

i am guessing you send a loaded shell somewhere along with a payment, they test and send you the results?

if that is correct, who and how much?

https://www.precisionreloading.com/view.php?pg=location

https://www.precisionreloading.com/view.php?pg=shot_proof

Check out the above links for pressure testing shotgun loads and look at the test form in the second link. You need to send them 6 shells of each load you want tested. It is much cheaper if you have two loads or more tested.

They send you the test data sheets as an attachment in a e-mail. They normally send me the results within two days of getting my test ammo.

Precision received two loads today that I am having tested. I am having a 2-3/4" 1 oz TSS load tested and a 2-3/4" 1-3/8 oz Hevi-Shot load tested.
 
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GC quote, "Most shotgun guys aren't missing coyotes by inches but rather by feet."

this is me! Cause of the three feet miss at 35 yards, broadside shot with a coyote hauling freight, will be that I will stop my swing, especially if a couple of coyotes are coming in at the same time. I have noticed over the years that if a coyote turns his head sideways and looks at me as I am following through, those killer eyes of his distract my attention on swing and follow through.

I read pressure signs on shot shells just like a rifle cartridge. Watch the depth of the lettering, watch the thickness of the rim. When you start to see the thickness of the rim increase, It is real obvious when you are into high pressures. Often, a high base will crack. I have had the Rim crack all the way around from multiple firings of high pressure loads. Primers will fall out of the hulls also. Some primers are larger in dia than others, be aware of this if you are scrounging for shot shell primers.

I work up shot shell loads, increasing powder charge 1.0g at a time(blue dot), carefully examine the hull and primer, then retrieve the wad. Fired wads tell a great story about the load, and how it builds pressure, and durability as it constricts going through the choke.

If you start to see plastic streaking in your choke or Barrel, your patterns will be inconsistent.

Patterns are usually blown on high pressure loads, usually.

I had a nut job for a hunting partner that liked to shoot over loads. He blew the bottom out of two 870's with HS6 and heavy loads in a 12ga. I told him that the browning BPS was a stronger shot gun, then he sized one up solid while we were shooting pigeons.

Since we hunted with 3-4 guys in the truck, we did not have room to carry everyone's guns. So, often, we would defer to one guy's or another's shotgun or two to take along. We usually would carry two rifles and two shotguns for 4 guys. Guys miss a lot of coyotes with shotguns because they are not familiar with the shotgun, hard to believe. I have had a couple of guys refuse to shoot at a running coyote, they wanted standing shots. More often than not, a guy has no idea of how his shotgun patterns at 40 yards, they will start looking at you like you are talking the greek language when you start talking patterns.

I got a good laugh at a really nice guy that I carried hunting with his Stevens double barrel that his dad had given to him. I had 1 1/2 oz of #4 buck loaded at 1300 and after he had fired about 6 shells, he put the gun away saying, "that I think that I prefer my rifle better". His arm was GREEN!!! I put him on a dove field on the 2nd season that starts in Thanksgiving, and after 5 boxes of Wal Mart Rem Dove loads, he was begging for mercy.

I would bet my house that 1 1/4 oz of TSS at 1325 fps choked properly will take all coyotes at 40-45 yards.
 
Originally Posted By: ackleyman

I read pressure signs on shot shells just like a rifle cartridge. Watch the depth of the lettering, watch the thickness of the rim. When you start to see the thickness of the rim increase, It is real obvious when you are into high pressures. Often, a high base will crack. I have had the Rim crack all the way around from multiple firings of high pressure loads. Primers will fall out of the hulls also. Some primers are larger in dia than others, be aware of this if you are scrounging for shot shell primers.


ackleyman, not trying to shoot you down, because it seems you have done your share of metallic loading and load workup. However, if you read pressure signs on shotshells, as you do on metallic loading, you are swimming in very dangerous territory. They are two completely different animals, and nothing alike when loading. If you can see any pressure signs in a shotshell load, you are well above SAAMI Max safe pressures already.

Its a known fact that shotshells don't show pressure signs like metallic cartridges do, and they can't be worked up in the same manner.
 
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