TSS shot testing

The 50 yard and 60 yard average penetration charts again, for illustration.

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60%20YD%20Avg%20FormattedW.jpg



And the 50 yard patterns with #4 and #2.

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I do see some potential advantage of the 131 pellet count of the #4 for just making hits on runners. And like I said, it will kill. But the #2 pattern is more to my liking for a coyote specific load and the penetration advantage for bad angles and distance (multiples!) is too significant to ignore. After you kill the first one, the second one is usually going away fast. Bad angle and longish distance are the norm on multiples. And that's even assuming it only takes one shot to anchor the first one. I'm just seeing #2's as a clear advantage, for my typical real world conditions.

- DAA
 
This is how you go about it. Dave has credible results based on actually developing loads, testing chokes, he can show actual patterning results at all ranges AND most importantly he will go out and kill enough coyotes to make an honest evaluation of the effectiveness of his shotgun, choke and loads. No speculation here, blue sky claims or blowing smoke. Kudos Dave!!!
 
Originally Posted By: John MccoyHaving seen what they will do to deer at 75yds I just don't think you need it on a coyote. I personally don't care, I'm just giving an opinion. I crushed the one at 50with the 9s so I've used all of them. 150lb deer, 4mm. 35lb dog #4s Turkeys #9s.

Well... No offense, but I don't think killing coyote is much like killing deer, in my experience. A coyote hit with a shotgun that gets out of your sight, is not going to be recovered, often as not, is what I've seen.

But, I've killed not a single coyote yet with TSS, so... You do have more experience there than I do.

One thing that the casual coyote hunter often seems to forget, are the multiples. After the first one, a long shot at the hind end of a speeding coyote is almost always what you have for the second one. If you have to take time for a second shot to finish off the first one, your odds on the second (or third) go down drastically, too.

Cleaning up multiples is one of those things, that after you reach a certain experience level, becomes something you pay a lot of attention to. It's usually the difference between getting four coyotes in a day and getting six or seven. Or ten coyotes for a weekend instead of fifteen or sixteen.

Multiples are a big part of my motivation for finding performance beyond what is possible with traditional coyote loads.

I just think 4's are going to be at a real disadvantage compared to 2's in an awful lot of those situations.

Like I said, I bought 2 pounds of 4's and will use up the rest shooting coyotes. And will be open minded to what I see. At this point though, I really do believe that at the end of the season, 2's are going to be where I'm at.

- DAA
 
Wow! Thanks for putting your time and effort and money into such thorough testing for all of us to gain and learn from. Be interested to follow this once you start testing in the field.
 
Originally Posted By: GCThis is how you go about it. Dave has credible results based on actually developing loads, testing chokes, he can show actual patterning results at all ranges AND most importantly he will go out and kill enough coyotes to make an honest evaluation of the effectiveness of his shotgun, choke and loads. No speculation here, blue sky claims or blowing smoke. Kudos Dave!!!

Oh I do load development and pattern testing. This is why I commented in the first place. I would not comment without actual personal experience. Some will. I do not. As I stated before, I have kill deer, hogs, coyotes, fox and turkeys with TSS.
 
Originally Posted By: DAAOriginally Posted By: John MccoyHaving seen what they will do to deer at 75yds I just don't think you need it on a coyote. I personally don't care, I'm just giving an opinion. I crushed the one at 50with the 9s so I've used all of them. 150lb deer, 4mm. 35lb dog #4s Turkeys #9s.

Well... No offense, but I don't think killing coyote is much like killing deer, in my experience. A coyote hit with a shotgun that gets out of your sight, is not going to be recovered, often as not, is what I've seen.

But, I've killed not a single coyote yet with TSS, so... You do have more experience there than I do.

One thing that the casual coyote hunter often seems to forget, are the multiples. After the first one, a long shot at the hind end of a speeding coyote is almost always what you have for the second one. If you have to take time for a second shot to finish off the first one, your odds on the second (or third) go down drastically, too.

Cleaning up multiples is one of those things, that after you reach a certain experience level, becomes something you pay a lot of attention to. It's usually the difference between getting four coyotes in a day and getting six or seven. Or ten coyotes for a weekend instead of fifteen or sixteen.

Multiples are a big part of my motivation for finding performance beyond what is possible with traditional coyote loads.

I just think 4's are going to be at a real disadvantage compared to 2's in an awful lot of those situations.

Like I said, I bought 2 pounds of 4's and will use up the rest shooting coyotes. And will be open minded to what I see. At this point though, I really do believe that at the end of the season, 2's are going to be where I'm at.

- DAA



It's all good. Just trying to help.
 
never used tss shot. but am very excited about it after reading the post daa made.

i am almost a 100 percent shotgun user these days. probably called a dozen pairs or a few more last year. far as i remember only 3 times did i get both of the pair killed. most all the other times the second coyote ended up running off with a broken leg or other non lethal damage and was never found.

going to get some of the tss shot to use this year and hopefully fix the problem of that bonus coyote running off. i will be getting the #2.
 
I would say there's going to be a lot of coyotes getting a taste of TSS this winter. The 60 and 70 yard groups are unreal. Its a long read but a great one.
 
Very first class and informative... Leaves no doubt that the pattern/penetration of the #2s would be the BIG winner.

One thing is that the #4s could be used for your first shot and followed up with the rest of them being the #2s.. JMO

One thing that has me wondering if there would be any advantage of the 3" over the 2 3/4s and I'm leaning on the 2 3/4 just for the simple fact that there should be less recoil for the opportunity for quicker followup shots.

Thanks for your dedicated time and expense for a non bias, no BS information.
 
Kevin, as of right now, I'm leaning towards no real advantage to the 3". I went into this with a bias towards 3", because that is all I have ever used. But, unless I want to go heavier than 1-5/8, I'm just not seeing any reason for 3". More room for powder, more velocity, maybe. All of the 3" data I have though, is just for more payload and not higher velocity.

I don't have the experience to say how this shot would pattern at higher velocity. Probably just fine, more than fine, but I can't say. If I get some data worked up for a 1325-1375 fps range 1-5/8 load in a 3", I'd sure be willing to try it and see.

I'm not smart enough to keep things straight loading a different round for the first shot and the second
laugh.gif
. No, really, it is just more fuss than I like to deal with at unloading/loading time before and after every stand. I do want to give the #4's a fair chance in the field though. I'll just switch off days. Use 2's for a whole day. Use 4's for a whole day. At least until the 4's I have are gone.

Still think I haven't found quite the right choke for the #4 yet either. Those patterns with the Kicks GT .670 certainly aren't bad, but when I compare them to what the #2's are doing, I'm thinking the #4 should be able to better than what I'm getting.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: reddog964Very first class and informative... Leaves no doubt that the pattern/penetration of the #2s would be the BIG winner.

One thing is that the #4s could be used for your first shot and followed up with the rest of them being the #2s.. JMO

One thing that has me wondering if there would be any advantage of the 3" over the 2 3/4s and I'm leaning on the 2 3/4 just for the simple fact that there should be less recoil for the opportunity for quicker followup shots.

Thanks for your dedicated time and expense for a non bias, no BS information.

Since these are handloads, the length of the loads will make no difference you can load the same payload in a 2 3/4 or 3", and the payload and ejecta weight will determine the recoil. I have 3" loads ive developed specifically for the purpose of predator TSS loads. Although it's only 1.5 oz, because of the wad column, it requires a 3" hull. Also by loading in a longer hull, you effectively lower the pressure in you're round, this can effectively allow you to get more velocity out of your round, as you can put a larger powder charge behind it.

By saying all this, I must add that handload development takes lots of time and experience, and is something that shouldn't be taken lightly. Only work with safe pressure tested loads.
 
Dave, "I don't have the experience to say how this shot would pattern at higher velocity. Probably just fine, more than fine, but I can't say. If I get some data worked up for a 1325-1375 fps range 1-5/8 load in a 3", I'd sure be willing to try it and see."

I shot a special purpose load with xyz grains of 2400 with 1 5/8 oz of #4 Buck at 1350, let me just say, that it will rock your world, spin your hat sideways, and cock your ear muffs side ways. I shot this load in open country, old Federal paper base 3" hulls that build pressure with a slow pressure curve.

I hunted with a game warden that shot 1 1/4 oz of #4 Buck at 1250 fps, and his load patterned very tight. He killed just as many coyotes as I did with very heavy loads. He laughed at me a lot because he said my loads were scaring off the coyotes...in a joking way.

Just a different way of thinking, ultra tight patterns mean you can use less shot, but pattern density will also be less at longer distances. You now have an option to adapt a load for your hunting distances and the ability for your tolerance for recoil.

I have seen many a guy say that recoil does not bother them, then noticed them lifting their head off the stock and jerking heck out of the trigger anticipating recoil.

TSS shot is going to open up some different possibilities that are completely different due to shot density that is now hard for us to conceptualize.
 
Keith, I'm a self avowed recoil wimp. Definitely sensitive to recoil. I didn't build that lead sled to use for pattern testing for nothing!

Even with that lead sled. After any shotgun session, I like to spend a little time plinking with my 10/22 right after, get the flinches ironed out right then and there.

My buddy Tim is one who says he's not sensitive to recoil. But last winter, using my 870 and 1-3/4 oz. F loads, he only took a few shots at coyotes with it and said he never wanted to shoot it again
laugh.gif
.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: DAAKeith, I'm a self avowed recoil wimp. Definitely sensitive to recoil. I didn't build that lead sled to use for pattern testing for nothing!

Even with that lead sled. After any shotgun session, I like to spend a little time plinking with my 10/22 right after, get the flinches ironed out right then and there.

My buddy Tim is one who says he's not sensitive to recoil. But last winter, using my 870 and 1-3/4 oz. F loads, he only took a few shots at coyotes with it and said he never wanted to shoot it again
laugh.gif
.

- DAA

All this talk of recoil may have convinced me to stick with the 1-1/2 oz loads instead of trying 1-5/8 oz or 1-3/4 oz loads.
 
Would a mix of 2 and 4 shot ever be an advantage? Oh and the world is begging to know what the the 2's will do at 80 and beyond. To the price question if no finishing shots are needed with tss is the price that bad compared to hevi shot.
 
Originally Posted By: TKCattleI would say there's going to be a lot of coyotes getting a taste of TSS this winter. The 60 and 70 yard groups are unreal. Its a long read but a great one.

Just as I mentioned in my original threads, it's wicked stuff!
 
How is TSS "graded"? It seems that there are different densities available and the cost is density related. I also wondered about mixing 4 and 2 in a high velocity 2 3/4 inch.
 
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