Starting a new hunting dog.

Most folks just "like" what their dog already does. You cant make a dog range but you can make one stay close. Call enough coyotes and most dogs will stay close because they know that's where they will see the coyote.

I honesty don't give a rip how anyone uses a dog. I also dont say things like, I would shoot a dog that ranges even though I will not own one that does. I have had those, don't like it. They all went down the road to other guys. I want dogs that produce cool stands. Dead coyotes is just a bonus.
 
One last note: none of my ground is in states that have Government coyote control. Only two of my hundreds of land owners "think" they have a coyote problem. No one cares if I kill coyotes, they just let me hunt cause they like me. I am not making anyone's job harder but my own. Calf killings are not on the rise on my properties, in fact it's almost unheard of. I can't remember one ever happening to be quite honest. I make my silly videos, sing my silly songs and I'm a logger. Good day.
 
I am fairly sure I have coyotes near on just about every decoy stand I make. I don't cold call very many as I'm looking to work a den or kill problem coyotes. I don't need a dog to find them because I've done my homework and have at least an idea where the den and coyotes will be. I want dogs to go to coyotes that hang up or bugger or hold back and get them to work back to the gun no matter how far. The areas I den are massive and I rarely have property line concerns so if a dog can go get them and bring them back it saves me time. More time equals more dens worked, which means less time on the ground at each place and hopefully more ground worked. If I wasn't working dens I wouldn't put nearly as much work in and would take what comes to the call but my individual goal is to kill all adult coyotes before I work the den. Not really a consideration if you are not working a den or trying to eliminate coyotes for loss prevention.

My way is much more geared to denning than actual "decoying". I use what I use as a way to work dens faster. I always have to kill both coyotes at the den or I risk creating a bigger problem then when I walked on the ranch. If you only kill one adult you force the other adult to find easy food sources to make up not having a partner hunting. Those easy food sources often are domestic stock.

I love watching btech29 and SHamptons videos and if I didn't work dens and still wanted to work coyotes with dogs I would do it "their" way as it looks like it works well for them and looks like a real good time with the dogs. These guys put as much work into filming the dog work as they do hunting. I'm too lazy to even bring a camera on most stands as I am always racing the clock to get the job done yesterday. lol. Good job guys. They counter some of the BS that is out there with good video that in my opinion is closer to the way a dog should work and show that a dog is not on stand to kill the coyote or put them down or hold em until you can get to them and bash them with a stick.

I also love watching Kelly Jackson's videos. He stacks coyotes and is a great character as well. I look forward to watching these guys videos instead of cringing from watching "another" guys videos.

There use to be quite few good dog guys here but it seems quite a few have either left due to the intense censorship applied to these threads or have been banned due to saying their mind with reguards to a certain "protected" member.

Tim
 
Your post makes a great point DTOM. We all do different things. I've heard nothing but good things about you and know your a good hand. I enjoy reading your comments because I can tell you know what your talking about. What you do would not fit for me but you post without being a dick. The killing a dog that sits beside you comment rubs me a bit though. I know you are talking about boy wonder but mine sit by me too. I have never worshipped him nor patterned what I do after him. My dogs engage his do not.
 
Comment was made more based on my own experiences with dogs I have owned. A dog that would rather sit and cuddle than work a coyote drives me nuts.

From what I've seen your dogs do not fall into that category.

Tim
 
I'm not here to limit or make anyone change their ways. I just like comradery with like minded folks and to see what others do in hopes of learning something to put to use in my own game plan.

Tim
 
I am learning more from you guys talking back and forth then any amount of google searching and reading. At the very beginning I had some preconceived ideas of what to do and what to expect..but quickly learned the people I was reading that from were probably the ones you all "mention in quotes" as so called experts. I even bought the coyote dogs 101 dvd...sat down with a few cold ones and my pup, thinking we would learn a few things together...and 60 minutes later felt dumber about the whole "decoy dog" thing than before we started. I'm learning there isn't a right or wrong way, just a way that works for the pup and he will let me know that as long as I'm paying attention to him. If I do mess it up and he doesn't turn out as a "decoy dog" then I still have a bad azz dog that LOVES to go in the woods with me every chance he gets.

Thanks for keeping it real fellas!
 
I watched that DVD myself. There was not one thing on there that was anything like Tim does or like Jeff and I do. I really didn't get it.
 
Interesting reading.

One thing for sure is the passion and conviction everyone.

Decoy Dog, if nothing else is a very broad term and it seems everyone has a different take on it. I understand that some depending on where they live have different expectations about what a dog is and where it falls in their family.
I do not buy working dogs. Others may.. But I am looking for a pet. I live in a large city and getting somewhere to hunt takes an hour, or more (it's not uncommon for me to drive 4 hours somewhere). My truck is 4yrs old and has 93K miles and i live a mile from work. The terrain also can be tough, and dictate different styles. As others were saying they like their dogs to get out there, while some may want them to stay close.

The first thing, I would think, that a dog owner needs to do is figure out, do you want a working dog, or a pet? What do you want the dog to do on stand?

Since i live in a city, and don't have close hunting, i would take the dog to the dog park where she could play and run, a tired puppy is a good thing. The park here is about 2 acres, fenced. She would run out, chase the dogs a bit, and then get them to chase her, and come back to me. There were times when a dog would get to rough and she learned how to deal with that. A coyote isn't going to be forgiving.

Since i don't hunt every day and typically less than 60 days a year I wanted a behaved dog that was a pet first and a hunting buddy second. On stand, she would stay within 50 yards and usually sit near me and look for coyotes, and occassionally start howling and barking with/at the call. She would run out to coyotes, but then come back.. I didn't want her off chasing them where i couldn't see her, as that wasn't what i wanted. The area around here is full of washes and such and a puppy could get into trouble and i wouldn't have a way to protect her. A dead dog does no good.
my personal goal was to have a dog that would be a second set of eye's, keep the attention off me, and help sell my stands.. She did that very well. The biggest reason i got her was to sit on stand with me, and help me find the dead ones. Out here, you shoot one or two on a stand, and it can take some time to recover them. having a dog that i can put in the general area of the coyote, and find it quickly, would save me hours of time a year. Time that i would rather be calling in more, on the days That i do hunt. I don't live in rural area's, i don't have a job where i am out in the field all the time, and wish I could.. But, on the times that i am out, I would rather have that dog with me, then most people i know.
I kill an average of 25 coyotes a year, and liked having the dog. I skin out the coyotes, and sell the pelts despite knowing that it's really not worth it here in AZ, but it's good experience, and i enjoy it. There are a lot of guys here that have their ways they do things, and it works for them. Each of us have to pick and choose what works for us. Read, listen, discover all the different styles and find what works for you, and try not to desparage others. Lifes to short to get mad at someone because they don't do things the way you do.
 
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No one has a problem with having dogs for pets. The problems come when you take a working breed and make it a pet and even worse breeding it and selling the pups over and over to make a profit or gain some type of recognition as a working dog breeder all the while spitting in the face of the true hunters and breeders who have put their hearts, souls, money, hard earned experience and time into a breed only to have it ruined in the blink of an eye by backyard breeders and pet owners who have no idea what a working dog or a working breed requires.

Then you take a guy who floods a market with sub quality, ill treated, thoughtlessly bred and half trained dogs and in a matter of a few generations you have taken a working breed and diluted it to the point that it can be hard to find a quality, hunter bred dog.

As if that wasn't enough, the way we hunt is something that repeatedly is used as ammo by animal rights whackos to try to limit or outright shutdown fur hunting.



Tim
 
I would see that as a very true statement.

Before buying a dog of either type, the buyer should think about what they are looking for, and what they are prepared to do.

I didn't buy a working dog, because i didn't have the time or abilty to treat it, and work it, the way it deserved.

As for the Animal rights people. I don't don't video what i do, and i don't really care what they think.. They are going to do what they do, and I can't change that. I am going to continue to do what i do, and try and explain, and educate those in my world so they are not against my life.
 
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Originally Posted By: SHamptonI think Norcalkyle is the only one in this conversation that runs anything with his dogs and I think he primarily runs deer.

Yes, I have never and most likely won't ever have a decoy dog. Our area doesn't have a ton of coyotes, and with deer and hog dogs, I really can't justify owning and training a decoy dog for the handful of times it would come in handy.

I am a Sheppard (McNab specifically) guy. I would never give anyone on this site any advice on anything other than running deer/hogs, however I do see training a dog for any types of hunting the same. In my opinion a dog park is a way to ruin a dog very quickly, especially if they are taken there at a young age. My brother has a BMC and he takes it to the dog park just about everyday, and is always telling me about how his new dog has never lost a fight and owns every dog there. When he puts that dog on the ground around mine, all that dog wants to do is bite and wrestle.
 
Tbone, you got the exact dog DTOM described. I had one myself. I finally was able to talk my wife into getting rid of her and the guy that bought her loves her. It goes to show that everybody does want something different. I would have killed her a year ago if it wouldn't have cost me a divorce.
 
Owning dogs at the dog park and being able to cover yourself when you have three coyotes on you 250 yards away from your savior is a totally different ballgame. I think a lot of people fail to realize that. I can honestly say that I have never feared for my dog safety and she gets in a lot of heated situations.
 
Ya, I see it as the school bully approach. When the heat really comes they are the first ones to tuck tail and run.

I am a believer in a dog being better equipped to get out of a bad spot, not win a slug fest. I want dogs that are fast, quick, agile, smart, and athletic. Dogs on deer is scary because of the horns, so I want a dog that can out run a deer, but also out maneuver one in the brush and in close quarters. A muscle bound dog that wants to go head to head will get gutted by antlers.

For hogs it's always the combination of grit and speed. A dog needs to know when he can win the fight and when it is time to bark and hope daddy comes soon. A dog that wins every fight at the dog park will have a false sense of confidence and will be too gritty and get killed.

I guess the short version is take your dogs into the area you are hunting and they will become better dogs and you will find out if they have it real quick. Don't let other dogs bring down the potential of yours because their owners suck.
 
Just cause a dog can whip another dog don't make it tough. Let two or three coyotes jump on and we will see how tough ya are. Smarts over brawn. A dog needs to be gritty enough to engage but smart enough to come back. This crap folks saying my dog single handedly killing 70 or 80 coyotes a year is straight up BS. If they are I promise they ain't worth a flip as a decoy dog. Why would you want that anyway?
 
My dog has a tail so she has one strike against her!!! She will stay in the mix just long enough to make things heat up. She comes back usually at just the right time. She pushes them far enough that she becomes a threat but not so far that she runs them off. She's mean as all get out but not stupid enough to get herself hurt. This video is me filming the monitor with my phone but it shows the way she does things 90% of the time. She's only 17 months old so she's just starting to figure out the way she likes to do it. It takes a helluva dog to do it solo. I know Jeffs dog, Spot can handle a quad on her own and never get a scratch on her. For the way we do it that's impressive to me.
All the sound you hear is her yipping and screaming. I turn on the call after the first coyote is shot. I think she handled this pair pretty good.

 
I think just the sight of Girl Dogs tail infuriates coyotes. lol


Thats a good clip Scott. I cant wait to get her and Spot back together here in a couple weeks.
 
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