side by side comparison of Torch Pro and UNV T20
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SkyPup
New member
How dogs perceive red and green, simple version for nonscientists.
Normal human eyes contain three kinds of color-detecting cells called cones, and by comparing the way these cones are each stimulated by incoming light, our brains distinguish red wavelengths from green and blue wavelengths from yellow.
Dogs' eyes, like those of most other mammals, contain just two kinds of cones. These enable their brains to distinguish blue from yellow, but not red from green.
To see blue and yellow, dogs and humans alike rely on neurons inside the eye's retina. These neurons are excited in response to yellow light detected in the cone cells (which are also inside the retina), but the neurons' activity gets suppressed when blue light hits the cones. A dog's brain interprets the excitation or suppression of these neurons as the sensation of yellow or blue, respectively. However, in dogs and color-blind individuals, red light and green light both have a neutral effect on the neurons. With no signal to interpret these colors, the dogs' brains don't perceive any color.
Where you see red or green, they see shades of gray.
Normal human eyes contain three kinds of color-detecting cells called cones, and by comparing the way these cones are each stimulated by incoming light, our brains distinguish red wavelengths from green and blue wavelengths from yellow.
Dogs' eyes, like those of most other mammals, contain just two kinds of cones. These enable their brains to distinguish blue from yellow, but not red from green.
To see blue and yellow, dogs and humans alike rely on neurons inside the eye's retina. These neurons are excited in response to yellow light detected in the cone cells (which are also inside the retina), but the neurons' activity gets suppressed when blue light hits the cones. A dog's brain interprets the excitation or suppression of these neurons as the sensation of yellow or blue, respectively. However, in dogs and color-blind individuals, red light and green light both have a neutral effect on the neurons. With no signal to interpret these colors, the dogs' brains don't perceive any color.
Where you see red or green, they see shades of gray.
The laser test proves what a hunter needs to know, a red light will be seen even though not as red but like a Bad color tv with the red not functioning. The less light emitted the lower the chance of being seen. That is why I use thermal and a PVS14, nothing emitted, nothing for critters to detect.
SkyPup
New member
The only problem is that you go further and further away from whatever visible red signature the IR LED is putting out, it rapidly gets weaker and weaker and is not even visible directly in front of the emitter from 50 feet out.
Stand 15-20 degrees on either side of the emitter lens center and you cannot see it at all even close up.
Stand 15-20 degrees on either side of the emitter lens center and you cannot see it at all even close up.
6mm06
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: 1loboI fully accept what Skypup is telling us about the coyote's inability to see Red or IR. I think that the question we should be pursuing in this discussion is what are they seeing and how can we avoid it. We've all seen them take notice when they have a light put on them.
That's exactly what I have been trying to say, ask etc. I'm not debating whether or not a coyote, fox, bobcat etc. can see IR or any other color, and basically I don't care. What I want to know is what "DO" they see and how might we prevent them from seeing it.
My other question pertained to the TorchPro and the statement that was put either into or out of context. I didn't catch the meaning of the statement, but read it in context to what else was said in the post, that led me to think the TorchPro may be different from other illuminators in that perhaps animals cannot see it vs the other illuminators on the market. If the TorchPro has something going for it that others don't, then seems there is a lot of room for technological improvements in the market place.
SkyPup
New member
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Originally Posted By: 1loboI fully accept what Skypup is telling us about the coyote's inability to see Red or IR. I think that the question we should be pursuing in this discussion is what are they seeing and how can we avoid it. We've all seen them take notice when they have a light put on them.
That's exactly what I have been trying to say, ask etc. I'm not debating whether or not a coyote, fox, bobcat etc. can see IR or any other color, and basically I don't care. What I want to know is what "DO" they see and how might we prevent them from seeing it.
My other question pertained to the TorchPro and the statement that was put either into or out of context. I didn't catch the meaning of the statement, but read it in context to what else was said in the post, that led me to think the TorchPro may be different from other illuminators in that perhaps animals cannot see it vs the other illuminators on the market. If the TorchPro has something going for it that others don't, then seems there is a lot of room for technological improvements in the market place.
Basically the TorchPro IR Illuminator was designed to perform in the "sweet spot" of the GEN III gallium arsenide image intensifier IR amplification wavelength spectrum circuitry at 805nm. It also performs well in GEN II equipment which peaks at lower wavelengths than GEN III does, but does not perform at all with any GEN I equipment that is a entirely different a ball of wax.
Although your primary use is for digital, due to the fact that none of the current crop of digital night sight manufactures publish any data on their COMOS semiconductor image intensifiers, no one knows Jack about anything except internet heresay about who said this and who said that. There are also well documented cases where digital scope manufacturers sell and supply up to six differing OEM wavelength IR illuminators with their OEM digital scopes, clear evidence that their marketing and sales staff know little to nothing about what they are doing in any way, shape, or form.
Originally Posted By: 1loboI fully accept what Skypup is telling us about the coyote's inability to see Red or IR. I think that the question we should be pursuing in this discussion is what are they seeing and how can we avoid it. We've all seen them take notice when they have a light put on them.
That's exactly what I have been trying to say, ask etc. I'm not debating whether or not a coyote, fox, bobcat etc. can see IR or any other color, and basically I don't care. What I want to know is what "DO" they see and how might we prevent them from seeing it.
My other question pertained to the TorchPro and the statement that was put either into or out of context. I didn't catch the meaning of the statement, but read it in context to what else was said in the post, that led me to think the TorchPro may be different from other illuminators in that perhaps animals cannot see it vs the other illuminators on the market. If the TorchPro has something going for it that others don't, then seems there is a lot of room for technological improvements in the market place.
Basically the TorchPro IR Illuminator was designed to perform in the "sweet spot" of the GEN III gallium arsenide image intensifier IR amplification wavelength spectrum circuitry at 805nm. It also performs well in GEN II equipment which peaks at lower wavelengths than GEN III does, but does not perform at all with any GEN I equipment that is a entirely different a ball of wax.
Although your primary use is for digital, due to the fact that none of the current crop of digital night sight manufactures publish any data on their COMOS semiconductor image intensifiers, no one knows Jack about anything except internet heresay about who said this and who said that. There are also well documented cases where digital scope manufacturers sell and supply up to six differing OEM wavelength IR illuminators with their OEM digital scopes, clear evidence that their marketing and sales staff know little to nothing about what they are doing in any way, shape, or form.
As I have never had the opportunity to use or hunt with an illuminator, I have a question for you guys.
When you turn on the illuminator, can you see shadows? For instance, if there is a tree at 1 o'clock, can you see a shadow behind it when you turn your device on?
Thanks.
Jim
When you turn on the illuminator, can you see shadows? For instance, if there is a tree at 1 o'clock, can you see a shadow behind it when you turn your device on?
Thanks.
Jim
Originally Posted By: pdhntrAs I have never had the opportunity to use or hunt with an illuminator, I have a question for you guys.
When you turn on the illuminator, can you see shadows? For instance, if there is a tree at 1 o'clock, can you see a shadow behind it when you turn your device on?
Thanks.
Jim
Yes it casts a shadow that the device you are using to see the IR with will detect and render in the image
BB
When you turn on the illuminator, can you see shadows? For instance, if there is a tree at 1 o'clock, can you see a shadow behind it when you turn your device on?
Thanks.
Jim
Yes it casts a shadow that the device you are using to see the IR with will detect and render in the image
BB
Victor_TNVC
New member
Originally Posted By: SkyPupOriginally Posted By: 6mm06
Originally Posted By: 1loboI fully accept what Skypup is telling us about the coyote's inability to see Red or IR. I think that the question we should be pursuing in this discussion is what are they seeing and how can we avoid it. We've all seen them take notice when they have a light put on them.
That's exactly what I have been trying to say, ask etc. I'm not debating whether or not a coyote, fox, bobcat etc. can see IR or any other color, and basically I don't care. What I want to know is what "DO" they see and how might we prevent them from seeing it.
My other question pertained to the TorchPro and the statement that was put either into or out of context. I didn't catch the meaning of the statement, but read it in context to what else was said in the post, that led me to think the TorchPro may be different from other illuminators in that perhaps animals cannot see it vs the other illuminators on the market. If the TorchPro has something going for it that others don't, then seems there is a lot of room for technological improvements in the market place.
Basically the TorchPro IR Illuminator was designed to perform in the "sweet spot" of the GEN III gallium arsenide image intensifier IR amplification wavelength spectrum circuitry at 805nm. It also performs well in GEN II equipment which peaks at lower wavelengths than GEN III does, but does not perform at all with any GEN I equipment that is a entirely different a ball of wax.
Although your primary use is for digital, due to the fact that none of the current crop of digital night sight manufactures publish any data on their COMOS semiconductor image intensifiers, no one knows Jack about anything except internet heresay about who said this and who said that. There are also well documented cases where digital scope manufacturers sell and supply up to six differing OEM wavelength IR illuminators with their OEM digital scopes, clear evidence that their marketing and sales staff know little to nothing about what they are doing in any way, shape, or form.
Another aspect of our Torch Pro, (I guess we should talk about this more) is we designed it so the IR LED is imbedded deep into the head cavity in order to drastically decrease the off-axis IR LED visible signature. (Approx. 3-5 degrees off axis).
Vic
Originally Posted By: 1loboI fully accept what Skypup is telling us about the coyote's inability to see Red or IR. I think that the question we should be pursuing in this discussion is what are they seeing and how can we avoid it. We've all seen them take notice when they have a light put on them.
That's exactly what I have been trying to say, ask etc. I'm not debating whether or not a coyote, fox, bobcat etc. can see IR or any other color, and basically I don't care. What I want to know is what "DO" they see and how might we prevent them from seeing it.
My other question pertained to the TorchPro and the statement that was put either into or out of context. I didn't catch the meaning of the statement, but read it in context to what else was said in the post, that led me to think the TorchPro may be different from other illuminators in that perhaps animals cannot see it vs the other illuminators on the market. If the TorchPro has something going for it that others don't, then seems there is a lot of room for technological improvements in the market place.
Basically the TorchPro IR Illuminator was designed to perform in the "sweet spot" of the GEN III gallium arsenide image intensifier IR amplification wavelength spectrum circuitry at 805nm. It also performs well in GEN II equipment which peaks at lower wavelengths than GEN III does, but does not perform at all with any GEN I equipment that is a entirely different a ball of wax.
Although your primary use is for digital, due to the fact that none of the current crop of digital night sight manufactures publish any data on their COMOS semiconductor image intensifiers, no one knows Jack about anything except internet heresay about who said this and who said that. There are also well documented cases where digital scope manufacturers sell and supply up to six differing OEM wavelength IR illuminators with their OEM digital scopes, clear evidence that their marketing and sales staff know little to nothing about what they are doing in any way, shape, or form.
Another aspect of our Torch Pro, (I guess we should talk about this more) is we designed it so the IR LED is imbedded deep into the head cavity in order to drastically decrease the off-axis IR LED visible signature. (Approx. 3-5 degrees off axis).
Vic
Originally Posted By: SkyPupOriginally Posted By: 6mm06
Originally Posted By: 1loboI fully accept what Skypup is telling us about the coyote's inability to see Red or IR. I think that the question we should be pursuing in this discussion is what are they seeing and how can we avoid it. We've all seen them take notice when they have a light put on them.
That's exactly what I have been trying to say, ask etc. I'm not debating whether or not a coyote, fox, bobcat etc. can see IR or any other color, and basically I don't care. What I want to know is what "DO" they see and how might we prevent them from seeing it.
My other question pertained to the TorchPro and the statement that was put either into or out of context. I didn't catch the meaning of the statement, but read it in context to what else was said in the post, that led me to think the TorchPro may be different from other illuminators in that perhaps animals cannot see it vs the other illuminators on the market. If the TorchPro has something going for it that others don't, then seems there is a lot of room for technological improvements in the market place.
Basically the TorchPro IR Illuminator was designed to perform in the "sweet spot" of the GEN III gallium arsenide image intensifier IR amplification wavelength spectrum circuitry at 805nm. It also performs well in GEN II equipment which peaks at lower wavelengths than GEN III does, but does not perform at all with any GEN I equipment that is a entirely different a ball of wax.
Although your primary use is for digital, due to the fact that none of the current crop of digital night sight manufactures publish any data on their COMOS semiconductor image intensifiers, no one knows Jack about anything except internet heresay about who said this and who said that. There are also well documented cases where digital scope manufacturers sell and supply up to six differing OEM wavelength IR illuminators with their OEM digital scopes, clear evidence that their marketing and sales staff know little to nothing about what they are doing in any way, shape, or form.
So to answer 6mm's question, there is nothing engineered into the TorchPros design specific the having it perform in such a way that makes the beam less visible (in gray) to the quarry.
As for digital tech, my opinion is that you're being way too critical on the manufacturers not posting specs of their CCD or CMOS systems. I don't believe they are being nefarious about it rather they're probably guarding themselves from competitors and/or DIY'ers from mirroring the specs with the ease of it being posted.
Bottom line the technology (digital) works so well within a reasonable range of light wavelength that it isn't a super serious need to know the sensors sweet spot. Sure purist and those wanting 100% percent efficiency in their system will hunger for that information but to say the manufacturers don't know what they're doing!?!?! Because they don't post specs? COME ON SkyPup, did the product develop itself and fall from the sky with no intent to give consumers a useable off the shelf system? I don't think so.
Using the TorchPro and UNV20IR I've been very effective in locating and taking hogs, equally effective in fact that I purposely am not putting one ahead of the other. In rare, less than 2% of my hunting situations have I felt the animal can see and/or react to my IR light. When they have I turned it off and passed on the shot if there wasn't enough ambient light available. Yes that is the downside to using digital, the requirement to have IR or high amounts of ambient light but it's a concession I make based on the monetary cost of the system, meaning I've saved hundreds if not thousands in cost to miss the opportunity on 2% of shooting opportunities.
BB
Originally Posted By: 1loboI fully accept what Skypup is telling us about the coyote's inability to see Red or IR. I think that the question we should be pursuing in this discussion is what are they seeing and how can we avoid it. We've all seen them take notice when they have a light put on them.
That's exactly what I have been trying to say, ask etc. I'm not debating whether or not a coyote, fox, bobcat etc. can see IR or any other color, and basically I don't care. What I want to know is what "DO" they see and how might we prevent them from seeing it.
My other question pertained to the TorchPro and the statement that was put either into or out of context. I didn't catch the meaning of the statement, but read it in context to what else was said in the post, that led me to think the TorchPro may be different from other illuminators in that perhaps animals cannot see it vs the other illuminators on the market. If the TorchPro has something going for it that others don't, then seems there is a lot of room for technological improvements in the market place.
Basically the TorchPro IR Illuminator was designed to perform in the "sweet spot" of the GEN III gallium arsenide image intensifier IR amplification wavelength spectrum circuitry at 805nm. It also performs well in GEN II equipment which peaks at lower wavelengths than GEN III does, but does not perform at all with any GEN I equipment that is a entirely different a ball of wax.
Although your primary use is for digital, due to the fact that none of the current crop of digital night sight manufactures publish any data on their COMOS semiconductor image intensifiers, no one knows Jack about anything except internet heresay about who said this and who said that. There are also well documented cases where digital scope manufacturers sell and supply up to six differing OEM wavelength IR illuminators with their OEM digital scopes, clear evidence that their marketing and sales staff know little to nothing about what they are doing in any way, shape, or form.
So to answer 6mm's question, there is nothing engineered into the TorchPros design specific the having it perform in such a way that makes the beam less visible (in gray) to the quarry.
As for digital tech, my opinion is that you're being way too critical on the manufacturers not posting specs of their CCD or CMOS systems. I don't believe they are being nefarious about it rather they're probably guarding themselves from competitors and/or DIY'ers from mirroring the specs with the ease of it being posted.
Bottom line the technology (digital) works so well within a reasonable range of light wavelength that it isn't a super serious need to know the sensors sweet spot. Sure purist and those wanting 100% percent efficiency in their system will hunger for that information but to say the manufacturers don't know what they're doing!?!?! Because they don't post specs? COME ON SkyPup, did the product develop itself and fall from the sky with no intent to give consumers a useable off the shelf system? I don't think so.
Using the TorchPro and UNV20IR I've been very effective in locating and taking hogs, equally effective in fact that I purposely am not putting one ahead of the other. In rare, less than 2% of my hunting situations have I felt the animal can see and/or react to my IR light. When they have I turned it off and passed on the shot if there wasn't enough ambient light available. Yes that is the downside to using digital, the requirement to have IR or high amounts of ambient light but it's a concession I make based on the monetary cost of the system, meaning I've saved hundreds if not thousands in cost to miss the opportunity on 2% of shooting opportunities.
BB
Victor_TNVC
New member
Originally Posted By: BennyboneOriginally Posted By: SkyPupOriginally Posted By: 6mm06
Originally Posted By: 1loboI fully accept what Skypup is telling us about the coyote's inability to see Red or IR. I think that the question we should be pursuing in this discussion is what are they seeing and how can we avoid it. We've all seen them take notice when they have a light put on them.
That's exactly what I have been trying to say, ask etc. I'm not debating whether or not a coyote, fox, bobcat etc. can see IR or any other color, and basically I don't care. What I want to know is what "DO" they see and how might we prevent them from seeing it.
My other question pertained to the TorchPro and the statement that was put either into or out of context. I didn't catch the meaning of the statement, but read it in context to what else was said in the post, that led me to think the TorchPro may be different from other illuminators in that perhaps animals cannot see it vs the other illuminators on the market. If the TorchPro has something going for it that others don't, then seems there is a lot of room for technological improvements in the market place.
Basically the TorchPro IR Illuminator was designed to perform in the "sweet spot" of the GEN III gallium arsenide image intensifier IR amplification wavelength spectrum circuitry at 805nm. It also performs well in GEN II equipment which peaks at lower wavelengths than GEN III does, but does not perform at all with any GEN I equipment that is a entirely different a ball of wax.
Although your primary use is for digital, due to the fact that none of the current crop of digital night sight manufactures publish any data on their COMOS semiconductor image intensifiers, no one knows Jack about anything except internet heresay about who said this and who said that. There are also well documented cases where digital scope manufacturers sell and supply up to six differing OEM wavelength IR illuminators with their OEM digital scopes, clear evidence that their marketing and sales staff know little to nothing about what they are doing in any way, shape, or form.
So to answer 6mm's question, there is nothing engineered into the TorchPros design specific the having it perform in such a way that makes the beam less visible (in gray) to the quarry.
As for digital tech, my opinion is that you're being way too critical on the manufacturers not posting specs of their CCD or CMOS systems. I don't believe they are being nefarious about it rather they're probably guarding themselves from competitors and/or DIY'ers from mirroring the specs with the ease of it being posted.
Bottom line the technology (digital) works so well within a reasonable range of light wavelength that it isn't a super serious need to know the sensors sweet spot. Sure purist and those wanting 100% percent efficiency in their system will hunger for that information but to say the manufacturers don't know what they're doing!?!?! Because they don't post specs? COME ON SkyPup, did the product develop itself and fall from the sky with no intent to give consumers a useable off the shelf system? I don't think so.
Using the TorchPro and UNV20IR I've been very effective in locating and taking hogs, equally effective in fact that I purposely am not putting one ahead of the other. In rare, less than 2% of my hunting situations have I felt the animal can see and/or react to my IR light. When they have I turned it off and passed on the shot if there wasn't enough ambient light available. Yes that is the downside to using digital, the requirement to have IR or high amounts of ambient light but it's a concession I make based on the monetary cost of the system, meaning I've saved hundreds if not thousands in cost to miss the opportunity on 2% of shooting opportunities.
BB
Look at my off axis statement above. As for comparison I also mentioned our versatility with all SF tailcaps and pressure switches along with a head only option for folks who already have a SF body housing.
I get everyone wanting to have the "biggest Johnson contest" in regards to what is the brightest IR Lum out there, but as mentioned there is MUCH more that goes into a design of a IR Lum along with high quality components not made in China. I REFUSE to use ANY substandard components and it shows with the Torch Pro's test of time...
We also get compared with we having a "lower mW rating", but once again, many do not understand how our Torch Pro works and it's not all about the power output that allows our unit to get out to 800m.
Vic
Originally Posted By: 1loboI fully accept what Skypup is telling us about the coyote's inability to see Red or IR. I think that the question we should be pursuing in this discussion is what are they seeing and how can we avoid it. We've all seen them take notice when they have a light put on them.
That's exactly what I have been trying to say, ask etc. I'm not debating whether or not a coyote, fox, bobcat etc. can see IR or any other color, and basically I don't care. What I want to know is what "DO" they see and how might we prevent them from seeing it.
My other question pertained to the TorchPro and the statement that was put either into or out of context. I didn't catch the meaning of the statement, but read it in context to what else was said in the post, that led me to think the TorchPro may be different from other illuminators in that perhaps animals cannot see it vs the other illuminators on the market. If the TorchPro has something going for it that others don't, then seems there is a lot of room for technological improvements in the market place.
Basically the TorchPro IR Illuminator was designed to perform in the "sweet spot" of the GEN III gallium arsenide image intensifier IR amplification wavelength spectrum circuitry at 805nm. It also performs well in GEN II equipment which peaks at lower wavelengths than GEN III does, but does not perform at all with any GEN I equipment that is a entirely different a ball of wax.
Although your primary use is for digital, due to the fact that none of the current crop of digital night sight manufactures publish any data on their COMOS semiconductor image intensifiers, no one knows Jack about anything except internet heresay about who said this and who said that. There are also well documented cases where digital scope manufacturers sell and supply up to six differing OEM wavelength IR illuminators with their OEM digital scopes, clear evidence that their marketing and sales staff know little to nothing about what they are doing in any way, shape, or form.
So to answer 6mm's question, there is nothing engineered into the TorchPros design specific the having it perform in such a way that makes the beam less visible (in gray) to the quarry.
As for digital tech, my opinion is that you're being way too critical on the manufacturers not posting specs of their CCD or CMOS systems. I don't believe they are being nefarious about it rather they're probably guarding themselves from competitors and/or DIY'ers from mirroring the specs with the ease of it being posted.
Bottom line the technology (digital) works so well within a reasonable range of light wavelength that it isn't a super serious need to know the sensors sweet spot. Sure purist and those wanting 100% percent efficiency in their system will hunger for that information but to say the manufacturers don't know what they're doing!?!?! Because they don't post specs? COME ON SkyPup, did the product develop itself and fall from the sky with no intent to give consumers a useable off the shelf system? I don't think so.
Using the TorchPro and UNV20IR I've been very effective in locating and taking hogs, equally effective in fact that I purposely am not putting one ahead of the other. In rare, less than 2% of my hunting situations have I felt the animal can see and/or react to my IR light. When they have I turned it off and passed on the shot if there wasn't enough ambient light available. Yes that is the downside to using digital, the requirement to have IR or high amounts of ambient light but it's a concession I make based on the monetary cost of the system, meaning I've saved hundreds if not thousands in cost to miss the opportunity on 2% of shooting opportunities.
BB
Look at my off axis statement above. As for comparison I also mentioned our versatility with all SF tailcaps and pressure switches along with a head only option for folks who already have a SF body housing.
I get everyone wanting to have the "biggest Johnson contest" in regards to what is the brightest IR Lum out there, but as mentioned there is MUCH more that goes into a design of a IR Lum along with high quality components not made in China. I REFUSE to use ANY substandard components and it shows with the Torch Pro's test of time...
We also get compared with we having a "lower mW rating", but once again, many do not understand how our Torch Pro works and it's not all about the power output that allows our unit to get out to 800m.
Vic
Vic we posted almost at the same time so now I see the design of the deeply embedded IR light so that would be useful at the off axis positions you speak to.
The majority of shots are taken with the beam fully on the animal which would be a 1-2 degree offset from center but certainly while navigating to and scanning the offset (spill) visibility can only serve to reduce animals seeing the gray light.
Skypup - your distaste is apparent but it doesn't make my scope any less useful
The majority of shots are taken with the beam fully on the animal which would be a 1-2 degree offset from center but certainly while navigating to and scanning the offset (spill) visibility can only serve to reduce animals seeing the gray light.
Skypup - your distaste is apparent but it doesn't make my scope any less useful
Knowing what the upper end of the digital sensors capability is would allow a longer wavelength illuminator to be used. Say a 1040nm yag type that was used by the military in the past. That is above what critters and humans can see at low power levels.
Concerning making light/IR light less visible to critters:
The fact that critters can't see red, has nothing to do with the fact that critters can see light, ANY color of light they just can't distinguish the difference between red colors. So a RED hunting suit will not make you invisible
( Darn it Order Cancelled
)
The narrow throw of the torch pro IR light makes it impossible to see from off center for critters or humans. So hunters using a narrow throw IR light and light discipline JUST like using a white/red/green/blue light not pointing it directly at the critters using the off center spill portion, the IR light will probably not be noticed by the critters because the beam will not be seen. (The IR light beam cannot be seen, the emitter or source will be seen because of the amount of IR emitted/ NOTE:will also damage your eyes looking directly at it). Shadows will only be seen by night vision (digital or I^2), vs. a white or red or blue or green flashlight which critters will see the beam and the shadows.
The Torch pro much better made then the t20, well built product USA vs China. I don't think you can get anything from TNVC that is crap, they back what they sell and selling crap puts you out of business.
I have several t20's because they work for what I use them for, cheap IR lights with 3 power levels and I can fix or mod them as needed. Have a couple on magnet mounts to stick on roof for driving.
Concerning making light/IR light less visible to critters:
The fact that critters can't see red, has nothing to do with the fact that critters can see light, ANY color of light they just can't distinguish the difference between red colors. So a RED hunting suit will not make you invisible
The narrow throw of the torch pro IR light makes it impossible to see from off center for critters or humans. So hunters using a narrow throw IR light and light discipline JUST like using a white/red/green/blue light not pointing it directly at the critters using the off center spill portion, the IR light will probably not be noticed by the critters because the beam will not be seen. (The IR light beam cannot be seen, the emitter or source will be seen because of the amount of IR emitted/ NOTE:will also damage your eyes looking directly at it). Shadows will only be seen by night vision (digital or I^2), vs. a white or red or blue or green flashlight which critters will see the beam and the shadows.
The Torch pro much better made then the t20, well built product USA vs China. I don't think you can get anything from TNVC that is crap, they back what they sell and selling crap puts you out of business.
I have several t20's because they work for what I use them for, cheap IR lights with 3 power levels and I can fix or mod them as needed. Have a couple on magnet mounts to stick on roof for driving.
SkyPup
New member
Yeah, digital camera sensors (both CCD and CMOS) can see a rather wide range of frequencies beyond visible light, but the sensor's pixels also have no concept of color.
To get color, a Bayer Filter is employed inside the sensor. The Bayer Filter is basically a mask of alternating red/green, green/blue filters. With this filter, certain pixels can only see red, some only blue, and some only green. However, those filters are "leaky" and will let some IR light through.
Also remember that the sensor itself doesn't have any concept of color; the software interpreting the data from the sensor has to know what color filter is over each pixel. Then, the data is encoded in the YCbCr colorspace using either JPEG (photo), or H.264 (video). Thus, no colors beyond the YcBcR colorspace are physically encoded.
To see near-IR light, we are depending on the "leakage" of the Bayer Filters to allow some IR light to reach the individual red, green, and blue filtered pixels. Generally, the green filter leaks very little IR light, while the red and blue filters are quite leaky to IR light. Because of this, IR light is seen as purple in photos (or videos) shot with a color camera where the ICF has been removed. Many night vision purists remove these filters to try to improve the flow of IR through the lenses.
The Sony Night Shot IR CCD graph looks like this:
In the graph of the Sony Night Vision CCD, visible light is the blue shaded area to the left and the IR spectrum is to the right, so as both Hardware and I were thinking, digital could benefit from a much more specialized IR illuminator.
Why the digital manufacturers and reps do not know what they are selling just shows the extreme disconnect between their engineers and the marketing/sales staff, this is not rocket science stuff, but most of their marketing reps quack like ducks....
To get color, a Bayer Filter is employed inside the sensor. The Bayer Filter is basically a mask of alternating red/green, green/blue filters. With this filter, certain pixels can only see red, some only blue, and some only green. However, those filters are "leaky" and will let some IR light through.
Also remember that the sensor itself doesn't have any concept of color; the software interpreting the data from the sensor has to know what color filter is over each pixel. Then, the data is encoded in the YCbCr colorspace using either JPEG (photo), or H.264 (video). Thus, no colors beyond the YcBcR colorspace are physically encoded.
To see near-IR light, we are depending on the "leakage" of the Bayer Filters to allow some IR light to reach the individual red, green, and blue filtered pixels. Generally, the green filter leaks very little IR light, while the red and blue filters are quite leaky to IR light. Because of this, IR light is seen as purple in photos (or videos) shot with a color camera where the ICF has been removed. Many night vision purists remove these filters to try to improve the flow of IR through the lenses.
The Sony Night Shot IR CCD graph looks like this:
In the graph of the Sony Night Vision CCD, visible light is the blue shaded area to the left and the IR spectrum is to the right, so as both Hardware and I were thinking, digital could benefit from a much more specialized IR illuminator.
Why the digital manufacturers and reps do not know what they are selling just shows the extreme disconnect between their engineers and the marketing/sales staff, this is not rocket science stuff, but most of their marketing reps quack like ducks....
