Ron Paul is NOT out of the race

Once again, we're not talking about your personal beliefs, we're talking about the force of government. I really don't know why that is such a difficult thing to grasp.

Do whatever you want in your personal life. Go to the church of your choice & believe what your faith teaches all you like.

But when you want to use the raw force of govt against your fellow citizens, just leave all of that out of it bc that's not where it belongs. Not in a free country with free people. What's left of freedom, anyway. people talk a good game of it, but mostly they don't mean it & in fact are afraid of it. This thread is a prime example. You want to be free in your beliefs, but you just can't stand to accept that others have the right to be free in theirs, unless theirs are the same as yours.

The hardest thing about being free is letting your neighbor be free. There's something basic in human nature that just can't stand that.

What the hell, lets just have the Scientologists come over & start writing our laws, I'm sure we'd all just love having Tom Cruise & his bunch tell us what to do & how to live.
 
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Once again, we're not talking about your personal beliefs, we're talking about the force of government. I really don't know why that is such a difficult thing to grasp.

Do whatever you want in your personal life. Go to the church of your choice & believe what your faith teaches all you like.

But when you want to use the raw force of govt against your fellow citizens, just leave all of that out of it bc that's not where it belongs. Not in a free country with free people. What's left of freedom, anyway. people talk a good game of it, but mostly they don't mean it & in fact are afraid of it. This thread is a prime example. You want to be free in your beliefs, but you just can't stand to accept that others have the right to be free in theirs, unless theirs are the same as yours.

The hardest thing about being free is letting your neighbor be free. There's something basic in human nature that just can't stand that.

What the hell, lets just have the Scientologists come over & start writing our laws, I'm sure we'd all just love having Tom Cruise & his bunch tell us what to do & how to live.


And that is why we are having all these problems about losing gun rights and laws against killing animals and not eating meat since all the political correct bull started.Its a free country right?Let all them nuts take our guns.We have to let our neighbors be free.Let them take our guns.Crazy isn't it?Thats why we need certain laws to protect our rights ONE NATION UNDER GOD.Oh darn theres that God word again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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Once again, we're not talking about your personal beliefs, we're talking about the force of government. I really don't know why that is such a difficult thing to grasp.

Do whatever you want in your personal life. Go to the church of your choice & believe what your faith teaches all you like.

But when you want to use the raw force of govt against your fellow citizens, just leave all of that out of it bc that's not where it belongs. Not in a free country with free people. What's left of freedom, anyway. people talk a good game of it, but mostly they don't mean it & in fact are afraid of it. This thread is a prime example. You want to be free in your beliefs, but you just can't stand to accept that others have the right to be free in theirs, unless theirs are the same as yours.

The hardest thing about being free is letting your neighbor be free. There's something basic in human nature that just can't stand that.

What the hell, lets just have the Scientologists come over & start writing our laws, I'm sure we'd all just love having Tom Cruise & his bunch tell us what to do & how to live.



I think you are correct. I know we are talking about the force of government. Maybe you are getting me mixed up with someone else??
 
Bruce, I was with your reasoning as far as gun control goes.
As far as equal rights for gays, I have zero problems with that. Now I love a good homo joke as much as the next guy, but I also believe it's unfair in this great country to withold benifits from a lifetime couple, simply because that couple happens to be two men, or two women. While it sure isn't my personal cup of tea, I couldn't give a fluffy bunny fart what people do behind their own closed doors. I'm not advocating their lifestyle choices, sexual orientation, or whatever you want to label it. I just don't happen to believe it's my, or my governments decision is all.
Whenever I see attacks like this come from the religious zealots (not you,but in general) it reminds me of a guy who gets far too much publicity in my book, the Rev. Fred Phelps, and his organization, which can be followed on godhatesfags.com. If in fact their God is as unforgiving and brutal as they preach, then I cringe at the people that groups like this drive away from religion. I can't help but wonder, If there is a God out there, what he or she would feel when confronted by a same sex couple,that spends their lives minding their own business and caring for each other, verses a religion's leader and his followers that breeds hatred,intollerance and fear. Understand, I'm not insulting anybody's religious beliefs here, not even the ones that knock at my door and want to leave me pamphlets, I'm only concerned with the actions of the few that I've mentioned.
As For Ron Paul, I don't see where he has a mathamatical chance to pull this out. I also believe that for the ultra conservatives that follow Ann C, and rather than vote for McCain, you'd choose to support Obama or Clinton, or just as bad not vote at all, then you're doing a great disservice to fellow gun owners and our US military everywhere. Hey, that's just my opinion though.
 
If the party nominates McCain, to me it means the party has shifted so far to the left that it is unexceptable.
The lesser of two evils gave us Bush Sr. then Bush Jr. Enough people voted for Perot that the party took notice. The party moved to the right,we took control of the House and Senate,, After Jr. we lost both. What can we expect if McCain is ellected ?
 
greg, I'm arguing with Bruce.

Bruce, it happens that we have constitutionally protected gun rights. We also have constitutionally protected freedom of religion.

What people do in their private lives, so long as they are not harming other people, stealing from them, not violating their rights, I really don't care. By & large, govt shouldn't either.

When people take their private lives & wish to use govt to force that on others, then I get my back up fast.

IMO, scientologists are as crazy as spin beetles. Just plain whacked out nut jobs. But they have the freedom to be nuts. I'll stand up & fight for their rights to be nuts, just so long as they don't try to shove their beliefs on me. Let them go to govt & push for laws based solely on their beliefs & I will fight them with everything I have.

Ditto for christians, jews, hindus, whatever. Keep private where it belongs.
 
I couldnt agree more with Stu. United States of America, home of the FREE. Not home of the theocracy....
 
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When people take their private lives & wish to use govt to force that on others, then I get my back up fast.





+1 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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Okay, maybe getting off the gay issue...Let me, a very simple person, tell you the problem I have with Ron Paul. He has idiots campaigning for him. No one, not a radio show host, or a Joe Blow from Idaho, wants to be harrassed on the street by a bunch of odd/angry guys and gals with propaganda about turning off the tv.

I took my wife and 6 yr old son to Salt Lake this last weekend to see a basketball game. The RP supporters were WEARING lighted posters, playing drums, screaming at everyone trying to cross the road, pushing pamphlets in everyone's faces. Then we pass a brand new SUV with RP support phrases and anti Bush propaganda painted on it playing unearthly loud music with a bunch of these same people smoking cigarettes and apparently drinking beer (mind you I have no problem with folks doing whatever they want, I just didn't feel the image was appropriate for what they were trying to accomplish), while handing out pamphlets. This image combined with the video of his supporters chasing the radio guy around have me really turned off of Ron Paul. I don't care if he personally came in and killed a bunch of wolves, gave me a free rifle, and waived my taxes for 6 months; what is done in his name is the same as being done by him in my mind if he doesn't speak out against it. I guess I'm just a simple guy.



You nailed it Wishin.

Those clowns (Ronulans,Paulbots, etc.) are the face of the campaign, not reasonable guys like Greg. Paul attracts the fringe and the fringe gets the attention. His message is fairly solid (except the surrender thing, which is HUGE) but he is very poor at getting it across, and no it's not the fault of the corporate media.
 
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If in fact their God is as unforgiving and brutal as they preach, then I cringe at the people that groups like this drive away from religion. I can't help but wonder, If there is a God out there, what he or she would feel when confronted by a same sex couple,that spends their lives minding their own business and caring for each other, verses a religion's leader and his followers that breeds hatred,intollerance and fear.


What you fail to understand is that God is very understanding and forgiving.He loves us all.He hates the crime not the person.If they give up there sin and truely regrets it that person will be welcomed by God.He gives us free will.If that person then turns their back on God then that will have to be up to God as he does have some rules stated clearly in the bible.The hatrad intolerance and fear you state is towards the crime not the person.You can not change things in the bible just to make people feel better.Jesus clearly states that you can not change one word in the bible.I'm just letting people know this.What they then do with the information is up to them but I have done my part and imformed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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When people take their private lives & wish to use govt to force that on others, then I get my back up fast.





+1 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif


Ok then let the animal fruitcakes take away our rights to own guns,hunt,fish,and trap.Don't have the government stop them.Guess its not the governments place to stop such things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
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greg, I'm arguing with Bruce.

Bruce, it happens that we have constitutionally protected gun rights. We also have constitutionally protected freedom of religion.

What people do in their private lives, so long as they are not harming other people, stealing from them, not violating their rights, I really don't care. By & large, govt shouldn't either.

When people take their private lives & wish to use govt to force that on others, then I get my back up fast.

IMO, scientologists are as crazy as spin beetles. Just plain whacked out nut jobs. But they have the freedom to be nuts. I'll stand up & fight for their rights to be nuts, just so long as they don't try to shove their beliefs on me. Let them go to govt & push for laws based solely on their beliefs & I will fight them with everything I have.

Ditto for christians, jews, hindus, whatever. Keep private where it belongs.


Theres one big problem with all this, regardless if its gun rights or whatever.The government is the only thing that can stop these nut cases from taking our God given rights.
 
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I couldnt agree more with Stu. United States of America, home of the FREE. Not home of the theocracy....


Pretty soon it might not be home of the free.Theres a reason why it says One nation under God.After we loose all our rights I guess that will be ok because the govt. should not get involeved and stop them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
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Bruce, I was with your reasoning as far as gun control goes.
As far as equal rights for gays, I have zero problems with that. Now I love a good homo joke as much as the next guy, but I also believe it's unfair in this great country to withold benifits from a lifetime couple, simply because that couple happens to be two men, or two women. While it sure isn't my personal cup of tea, I couldn't give a fluffy bunny fart what people do behind their own closed doors. I'm not advocating their lifestyle choices, sexual orientation, or whatever you want to label it. I just don't happen to believe it's my, or my governments decision is all. Whenever I see attacks like this come from the religious zealots (not you,but in general) it reminds me of a guy who gets far too much publicity in my book, the Rev. Fred Phelps, and his organization, which can be followed on godhatesfags.com. If in fact their God is as unforgiving and brutal as they preach, then I cringe at the people that groups like this drive away from religion. I can't help but wonder, If there is a God out there, what he or she would feel when confronted by a same sex couple,that spends their lives minding their own business and caring for each other, verses a religion's leader and his followers that breeds hatred,intollerance and fear. Understand, I'm not insulting anybody's religious beliefs here, not even the ones that knock at my door and want to leave me pamphlets, I'm only concerned with the actions of the few that I've mentioned.




Mick,

Fred Phelps is as much an abomination as the queers IMO. The biggest problem with the fag agenda is the "in your face" attitude that they take. They insist on acceptance, against the long held standards and traditions of society. They will use any means necessary to force that agenda on us. I don't see many militant "Christians" marching and calling for the fags to be burned at the stake. What Phelps advocates is a direct contradiction to the Bible anyway, so what he does is not "Christian" to begin with. If the homos want to commit their filthiness behind closed doors, that's their decision and if they don't repent they will judged for it. But, when they come "out" and insist on being "married" and have their agenda being pushed in the government schools, in courts, and in legislative bodies they have gone way too far. If you could watch the videos that they want shown to fifth and sixth graders by LAW it would make a normal person puke. They also can't get married- as only a man and a woman can get married. If the definition is changed, why couldn't a man "marry" his horse? Or a child? Or his brother? Or several women at once? What will define a family if they have their way? All societies that have accepted and and celebrated perversion didn't end well. We are on the same track but will fail to learn from history.
 
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Bruce, I was with your reasoning as far as gun control goes.
As far as equal rights for gays, I have zero problems with that. Now I love a good homo joke as much as the next guy, but I also believe it's unfair in this great country to withold benifits from a lifetime couple, simply because that couple happens to be two men, or two women. While it sure isn't my personal cup of tea, I couldn't give a fluffy bunny fart what people do behind their own closed doors. I'm not advocating their lifestyle choices, sexual orientation, or whatever you want to label it. I just don't happen to believe it's my, or my governments decision is all. Whenever I see attacks like this come from the religious zealots (not you,but in general) it reminds me of a guy who gets far too much publicity in my book, the Rev. Fred Phelps, and his organization, which can be followed on godhatesfags.com. If in fact their God is as unforgiving and brutal as they preach, then I cringe at the people that groups like this drive away from religion. I can't help but wonder, If there is a God out there, what he or she would feel when confronted by a same sex couple,that spends their lives minding their own business and caring for each other, verses a religion's leader and his followers that breeds hatred,intollerance and fear. Understand, I'm not insulting anybody's religious beliefs here, not even the ones that knock at my door and want to leave me pamphlets, I'm only concerned with the actions of the few that I've mentioned.




Mick,

Fred Phelps is as much an abomination as the queers IMO. The biggest problem with the fag agenda is the "in your face" attitude that they take. They insist on acceptance, against the long held standards and traditions of society. They will use any means necessary to force that agenda on us. I don't see many militant "Christians" marching and calling for the fags to be burned at the stake. What Phelps advocates is a direct contradiction to the Bible anyway, so what he does is not "Christian" to begin with. If the homos want to commit their filthiness behind closed doors, that's their decision and if they don't repent they will judged for it. But, when they come "out" and insist on being "married" and have their agenda being pushed in the government schools, in courts, and in legislative bodies they have gone way too far. If you could watch the videos that they want shown to fifth and sixth graders by LAW it would make a normal person puke. They also can't get married- as only a man and a woman can get married. If the definition is changed, why couldn't a man "marry" his horse? Or a child? Or his brother? Or several women at once? What will define a family if they have their way? All societies that have accepted and and celebrated perversion didn't end well. We are on the same track but will fail to learn from history.


Well spoken as they are not only hurting themselves but our children as well.
 
Hi everyone,

Didn't Caligula marry his pony? Even his personal body guards couldn't handle THAT. They poisoned him. Apparently even a Roman Emperor had limits to his personal freedoms.

By the way. Now I'm shut'n down the "puter" cause its about 20 degrees, 5" of fresh snow and a blue sky. I'm go'n out an try to pop a yote. So ya all have fun. I know I will.

------------------------
"we must all hang together, or we will surely hang seperately" --- Ben Franklin

P.S. "Its better to go out in the fields and not see a yote than to stay home and not see one". --- me
 
We gave the fags the chance to voice themselves. They changed from' fag" to " queer' to "gay"( my grandmothers name was Gay, it was very painful to see us except that term, I still can't )
They changed from doing it in the closets, to doing it in the streets ,to doing it in our schools. They are changing the laws to punish all who may stand in there way. They recruit our children in our own schools with government backing and funds. They had themselves removed from the mentally sick list, are trying for the same, for child molestors. And now we find ourselves on that list.Much like the Boy Scouts of America.In time it won't just be a list we are on, it will be behind bars for our beliefs thanks to our tolerance.
 
I agree with you guys, in that I personally find the idea very distasteful. If I were walking through a mall and saw two guys necking, of course I would find it very disturbing. I also find it disturbing when I see two teens of opposite sexes doing the same thing in public. I also agree with you guys about the over the top, and in your face approach that these groups seem to embrace with their parades and what not. I guess the bottom line, and what keeps me from calling myself an "ultra conservative", is that I accept that these people are still human beings, and as such, deserve the same "rights" as any other human beings. I sure don't believe that homosexuals, either men or women, deserve anything more. As far as the whole gay marriage thing, I first viewed it as an abomination as well. In the religion that I was born into, that's exactly what it was, ironic that as time went on,a widespread occurence of holy men forcing themselves on choirboys would become such a front running topic in my religion. Don't get me wrong, I'm still not pro gay marriage in a religious sense, but I do believe that should they want to form some type of union in a legal sense that would allow them to share in each others benifits; insurance, death benifits, taxes, then it's not up to me, or the govt. to tell them they can't. Just because it's against the laws of the hypocritical religion I was born to, there are plenty of churches out there that will marry them. Either way, it's no skin off my scrotum.
I'm a live and let live, turn the other cheek, kind of guy. I took it as my personal responsibility to raise my son to the best of my abilities. I'd like to think that I taught him tolerance and understanding, regardless of my own personal dislikes. I suppose I could have swept less desireable aspects of life under the carpet, like homosexuality,drug abuse,crooked politicians,racial injustices and a long list of other things, I guess I just thought that to do that would somehow make me less of a man, and less of a father.
I hope if there is a God, that he/she doesn't view my way of dealing with others as equals,my efforts to remain tolerant of others beliefs and values, even when they're complete opposites of my own,and my refusal to adopt a religion that promotes hatred toward any living people, regardless of their beliefs, as being a weakness.Once again, I'm not knocking anyone's personal religious beliefs, if it works for you, go with it. I'd just prefer to wander through life wearing my blinders, and believing that if Jesus Christ did exist, he was probably a pretty tolerant, turn the other cheek, kind of guy.
 
Phelps is a great person to bring up in this context.

He claims to be a christian, though I don't recognize him as such. He claims to know what God wants, but I find the christians I know & talk to about him aren't buying that, either.

How would you like him writing your laws? I'd just as soon shoot him.

Bruce you keep tossing up the attacks on our gun rights as if that was somehow relevant to this discussion. I don't see how it is & so far you have not made any sort of case why it is.

My rights to own a gun do not depend on anything in scripture. No one is trotting up to the govt with a bible in hand saying "we have to ban guns cause that's what God wants, it says so right here."

So I have no idea what you're on about with that excpet making a straw man arguement.

pancakebunny.jpg
 
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