Remington Customer Service!
- Thread starter Skinner2
- Start date
RePete
New member
Originally Posted By: ADCcoyote How about the easy answer is why buy a 17HMR in the first place? LOL.
I'm not really sure which side of this thing I'm on, but since I never did jump on the HMR BandWagon I've been thinking the same thing. LOL
Like I said "I'm not smart enough to figure this one", but the fact that HMR ammo was released long before the 597 is first and foremost in my mind.
That said,, I also can't figure out why CCI would issue such a statement since they only make ammo and really shouldn't give a Rats azz what firearm manufacturers do with the stuff.. The fact that they did make the statement kinda looks like a CYA move and hints at some kind of liability IMO..
Very perplexing, but fortunatly I've got my winter provisions in and should have enough pop-corn to see this thing through to the end.
Carry on.
I'm not really sure which side of this thing I'm on, but since I never did jump on the HMR BandWagon I've been thinking the same thing. LOL
Like I said "I'm not smart enough to figure this one", but the fact that HMR ammo was released long before the 597 is first and foremost in my mind.
That said,, I also can't figure out why CCI would issue such a statement since they only make ammo and really shouldn't give a Rats azz what firearm manufacturers do with the stuff.. The fact that they did make the statement kinda looks like a CYA move and hints at some kind of liability IMO..
Very perplexing, but fortunatly I've got my winter provisions in and should have enough pop-corn to see this thing through to the end.
Carry on.
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Bayou City Boy
If "later it turns out the design is flawed", why did CCI issue the warning to every ammo vendor about their ammo - Winchester, Remington, Federal and Hornady? Why not just have CCI contact Remington and tell them to announce that CCI ammo is not safe in Remington rifles...?
-BCB Same difference. If all 17HMR ammo is made by CCI, then all 17HMR ammo is unsafe in 597's, not just CCI ammo.
Failure to notify of an unsafe product is how manufacturers loose huge lawsuits. They "have" to notify their customers, because not notifying them would cost them a whole lot more.
Which came first, the chicken (Rem 597). or the egg (17HMR ammo)? Really it doesn't matter. Remington has an obligation to produce a safe product.
If "later it turns out the design is flawed", why did CCI issue the warning to every ammo vendor about their ammo - Winchester, Remington, Federal and Hornady? Why not just have CCI contact Remington and tell them to announce that CCI ammo is not safe in Remington rifles...?
-BCB Same difference. If all 17HMR ammo is made by CCI, then all 17HMR ammo is unsafe in 597's, not just CCI ammo.
Failure to notify of an unsafe product is how manufacturers loose huge lawsuits. They "have" to notify their customers, because not notifying them would cost them a whole lot more.
Which came first, the chicken (Rem 597). or the egg (17HMR ammo)? Really it doesn't matter. Remington has an obligation to produce a safe product.
Bayou City Boy
New member
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGOriginally Posted By: Bayou City Boy
If "later it turns out the design is flawed", why did CCI issue the warning to every ammo vendor about their ammo - Winchester, Remington, Federal and Hornady? Why not just have CCI contact Remington and tell them to announce that CCI ammo is not safe in Remington rifles...?
-BCB Same difference. If all 17HMR ammo is made by CCI, then all 17HMR ammo is unsafe in 597's, not just CCI ammo.
Failure to notify of an unsafe product is how manufacturers loose huge lawsuits. They "have" to notify their customers, because not notifying them would cost them a whole lot more.
Which came first, the chicken (Rem 597). or the egg (17HMR ammo)? Really it doesn't matter. Remington has an obligation to produce a safe product.
I couldn't agree more about what you said about the lawsuit issue in itself.... It is all pretty obvious and has already been said several times here.
However, if it's the Remington rifle that is at fault, why should CCI be the one to lead the way in pointing it out by saying their ammo is not safe in any semi-auto rifle...? Again, why not just have Remington say they have concluded that ammo is not safe in their rifles, so send then back to Remington as they are doing, and CCI is home free. All CCI is doing by the approach they took is saying they have concerns about the ammo.
Remember, this all began along with CCI ammo that was doing over 2700 FPS over a chrony in both bolt and semi-auto guns. It should have been doing ~2550. The only way to get the extra velocity is with extra pressure.
Just blaming Remington for this doesn't pass the smell test for me...
-BCB
If "later it turns out the design is flawed", why did CCI issue the warning to every ammo vendor about their ammo - Winchester, Remington, Federal and Hornady? Why not just have CCI contact Remington and tell them to announce that CCI ammo is not safe in Remington rifles...?
-BCB Same difference. If all 17HMR ammo is made by CCI, then all 17HMR ammo is unsafe in 597's, not just CCI ammo.
Failure to notify of an unsafe product is how manufacturers loose huge lawsuits. They "have" to notify their customers, because not notifying them would cost them a whole lot more.
Which came first, the chicken (Rem 597). or the egg (17HMR ammo)? Really it doesn't matter. Remington has an obligation to produce a safe product.
I couldn't agree more about what you said about the lawsuit issue in itself.... It is all pretty obvious and has already been said several times here.
However, if it's the Remington rifle that is at fault, why should CCI be the one to lead the way in pointing it out by saying their ammo is not safe in any semi-auto rifle...? Again, why not just have Remington say they have concluded that ammo is not safe in their rifles, so send then back to Remington as they are doing, and CCI is home free. All CCI is doing by the approach they took is saying they have concerns about the ammo.
Remember, this all began along with CCI ammo that was doing over 2700 FPS over a chrony in both bolt and semi-auto guns. It should have been doing ~2550. The only way to get the extra velocity is with extra pressure.
Just blaming Remington for this doesn't pass the smell test for me...
-BCB
bigwheeler
New member
I would guess that it is unsafe in any blow back bolt. If some one were to
produce a locking bolt semi it should work fine.
produce a locking bolt semi it should work fine.
baileydr
New member
This link was posted at the begining of this thread.
http://www.magnumresearch.com/docs/HMR-Notice.pdf
I cannot figure out why Magnum Research would offer purchace price, or gun of equal value if the ammo is the one at fault?
Seems like they want to treat thier customers fairly.
IMO.
Don.
http://www.magnumresearch.com/docs/HMR-Notice.pdf
I cannot figure out why Magnum Research would offer purchace price, or gun of equal value if the ammo is the one at fault?
Seems like they want to treat thier customers fairly.
IMO.
Don.
Orneryolfart357
New member
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGOriginally Posted By: ADCcoyote How about the easy answer is why buy a 17HMR in the first place? LOL. Because you can roll coyotes on the run, you can hit squirrels in the head at 200 yards, etc.
LOL Pretty soon they will be on Safari in Africa. Remmy 597's are all the rage there, since the used ones are going soo cheap they gotta sell em somewhere. Dont mind the fact that they were purchased the day earlier at full price and found to be unsafe due to the Only ammo available to them at the time of production of the rifle. And dont forget the tremendous knockdown power of the HMR. Yep its a cut and dried case of Bad Ammo.. Call OJ's Dream Team Lawyers! Too Funny !
LOL Pretty soon they will be on Safari in Africa. Remmy 597's are all the rage there, since the used ones are going soo cheap they gotta sell em somewhere. Dont mind the fact that they were purchased the day earlier at full price and found to be unsafe due to the Only ammo available to them at the time of production of the rifle. And dont forget the tremendous knockdown power of the HMR. Yep its a cut and dried case of Bad Ammo.. Call OJ's Dream Team Lawyers! Too Funny !
ozzy
New member
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGOriginally Posted By: ADCcoyote How about the easy answer is why buy a 17HMR in the first place? LOL. Because you can roll coyotes on the run, you can hit squirrels in the head at 200 yards, etc. Hey now! I've never seen a pop can move after I killed it! It wasn't road kill either!!!
Chapped Lips
New member
will someone please PULL THE PLUG ON THE QUOTE BUTTON !......this would only be 4 pages long...JMO.
sandhillshunter
New member
The best you can come up with BCB, is taking a back handed shot at Nebraska? Come on now, with your "legendary" debating skills, I was expecting much more then that. Talk about a major let down.
As to your question. No, I do not give full retail on used guns. But then again, my name isn't stamped on a firearm that has "alleged" safety issues. Again, your "twisted" Internet comparison doesn't fly. Wish to try again?
As to your question. No, I do not give full retail on used guns. But then again, my name isn't stamped on a firearm that has "alleged" safety issues. Again, your "twisted" Internet comparison doesn't fly. Wish to try again?
Last edited:
Years ago, I was shooting a Cooper in 17 hmr. About 12 rounds out of every box of ammunition would result in a stuck case. Had to use a pocket knife to dig them out and some were a lot worse than others. Had the rifle checked out and nothing wrong there.
A year later, I was now shooting a Clark conversion in 17 hmr. Every so often I would have a split case and could notice a considerable difference in the loudness of the round when this would happen. I gave this rifle to a friend and he had it checked out at Clark. Something about timing being off in the cycling of the bolt.
I now shoot a Volquartsen in 17 hmr and after 2 years have had no problems. Every so often, I still hear the much louder report from some rounds.
My take on the whole deal is there is a quality control issue with the ammunition. If you lift the bolt assembly of a Magnum Research and a Volquartsen, you will notice that the Volquartsen is considerably heavier. It is heavy enough to handle the occasional hot factory round. The rest will handle most of them but not all. Just my observations from my experience.
Randy
A year later, I was now shooting a Clark conversion in 17 hmr. Every so often I would have a split case and could notice a considerable difference in the loudness of the round when this would happen. I gave this rifle to a friend and he had it checked out at Clark. Something about timing being off in the cycling of the bolt.
I now shoot a Volquartsen in 17 hmr and after 2 years have had no problems. Every so often, I still hear the much louder report from some rounds.
My take on the whole deal is there is a quality control issue with the ammunition. If you lift the bolt assembly of a Magnum Research and a Volquartsen, you will notice that the Volquartsen is considerably heavier. It is heavy enough to handle the occasional hot factory round. The rest will handle most of them but not all. Just my observations from my experience.
Randy
Bayou City Boy
New member
sandhills, LOL....!!! I really wasn't trying to impress you in any way... What would doing that really gain anyone...?
And you need to be less sensitive about where you live... You and I both know it might be 75 miles between decent sized gun shops where you live. I just happen to have two gun shops within a few minutes of each other where I could quickly show you my "twisted Internet connection".
I will only buy guns from one of the dealers, but this being an urban area, the other guy still finds quite a few folks who are "clueless" and will pay him MSRP for new guns every fall before hunting season.
As I mentioned earlier here, I have a friend who has a Volq that split a case head. Neither he not the rifle were hurt in any way, but it happened. And he, and others like Randy, have also noticed the occasional loud reports of 17 HMR ammo in the semi's......
Again, there's more to this issue than just hanging "Big Green" because some folks think its fashionable to get on a band wagon. CCI issued the warning for a reason at the same time they knew they had chronied 2700 FPS ammo running around the country. Again, that was a big factor in all this happening.
I just happen to hate lynch mobs within the gun industry directed at ANY vendor of products. There are enough folks looking in that we don't need to help them out by becoming overly hormonal without all the facts over the price of a used gun.
Good post, Randy.
I hope you have a good Sunday, sandhills... I see its been a little bit unseasonably cold up there right now. But I'm pretty sure it's not your fault because you live there... Chin up....
-BCB
And you need to be less sensitive about where you live... You and I both know it might be 75 miles between decent sized gun shops where you live. I just happen to have two gun shops within a few minutes of each other where I could quickly show you my "twisted Internet connection".
I will only buy guns from one of the dealers, but this being an urban area, the other guy still finds quite a few folks who are "clueless" and will pay him MSRP for new guns every fall before hunting season.
As I mentioned earlier here, I have a friend who has a Volq that split a case head. Neither he not the rifle were hurt in any way, but it happened. And he, and others like Randy, have also noticed the occasional loud reports of 17 HMR ammo in the semi's......
Again, there's more to this issue than just hanging "Big Green" because some folks think its fashionable to get on a band wagon. CCI issued the warning for a reason at the same time they knew they had chronied 2700 FPS ammo running around the country. Again, that was a big factor in all this happening.
I just happen to hate lynch mobs within the gun industry directed at ANY vendor of products. There are enough folks looking in that we don't need to help them out by becoming overly hormonal without all the facts over the price of a used gun.
Good post, Randy.
I hope you have a good Sunday, sandhills... I see its been a little bit unseasonably cold up there right now. But I'm pretty sure it's not your fault because you live there... Chin up....
-BCB
tunered
New member
Just keep in mind that federal played with the 17 years ago, yes the same one, and found enough problems that they gave up, BCB, You have it right, dealers around here think customers are stupid, or want it so bad they will pay whatever they ask, price gouging at its finest, this will backfire, just wait. ed
ohioyotehntr
Custom Call Maker
I'm with you guys on NEVER buying a Rem again. I have a 1187 that the choke tube split in the slug barrel. They would do nothing except offer me $50 off another Rem. barrel.
Another issue with the same gun. Gunhad one shell in the chamber. SAFETY ON! Put another in the tube and when it clicked in, the gun fired!!!. Nothing touching the trigger. I called them and they wanted me to send it to their gunsmith to look at. They wouldn't cover any of the cost. Then got upset at me when I told them I was through with their firearms. And this was a higher up manager that I talked too.
NOW THATS CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another issue with the same gun. Gunhad one shell in the chamber. SAFETY ON! Put another in the tube and when it clicked in, the gun fired!!!. Nothing touching the trigger. I called them and they wanted me to send it to their gunsmith to look at. They wouldn't cover any of the cost. Then got upset at me when I told them I was through with their firearms. And this was a higher up manager that I talked too.
NOW THATS CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!
sandhillshunter
New member
BCB,
Do I sense a little anger there?
Surely not???? Your not letting a little discussion between friends get under your skin now are you? Kinda seems that way bud...... I mean, your whole last post is about where I live???? Kinda second grade like isn't it? Your really letting me down here. I thought going toe to toe with the "great" BCB was almost a little scary. I now see, that's just not the case. I do appreciate you caring about my wellbeing though, kinda makes me feel all warm and fuzzy like!
"I just happen to hate lynch mobs within the gun industry directed at ANY vendor of products"
For the most part, I agree with you BCB. I don't think Remy is the only one at fault, "allegedly of course". I'm sure when the class action comes, there will be more then just one company named. Do I want any gun/ammo company to end up in court? No! It gives the whole industry a black eye. My biggest complaint is how anyone can think the dealers are at fault here? If the person who seems to think this, would like to come up with some facts that support that. Lets hear them!
Yes, Randy did have a very good post!
Love ya BCB!
Do I sense a little anger there?
"I just happen to hate lynch mobs within the gun industry directed at ANY vendor of products"
For the most part, I agree with you BCB. I don't think Remy is the only one at fault, "allegedly of course". I'm sure when the class action comes, there will be more then just one company named. Do I want any gun/ammo company to end up in court? No! It gives the whole industry a black eye. My biggest complaint is how anyone can think the dealers are at fault here? If the person who seems to think this, would like to come up with some facts that support that. Lets hear them!
Yes, Randy did have a very good post!
Love ya BCB!
Last edited:
Bayou City Boy
New member
sandhills:
LOL....!! Your last couple of posts have created a lot of amusement on my part but not any anger.
You must be real bored to keep trying to pick a fight over next to nothing. Sorry I mentioned its 75 miles between gun shops where you live versus me having a bunch real close together where I live which would allow me to quickly make my point.
Should that simple fact of distance create some form of insecurity for one of us, and if that's an issue beyond the fact that it is, which one of us should feel insecure...? And I also apologize for saying its been cold where you live. LOL..!!
Beyond that, for some reason you're just jousting at wind mills now. If you have some perverse need to declare yourself king of some imaginary issue, feel free to do so. I'm sure you deserve the accolades you're heaping on yourself.
For me, I never said dealers are directly at fault for this issue. You're reading between the lines and extrapolating on your own to come up with that. I'm just saying that setting a fixed amount for reimbursement is quicker and more efficient for everyone involved than trying to handle every single issue by itself because of differences in dealer mark-ups, etc. But you already knew that.
If and when your much desired class action law suit comes about so that everyone will "get their due", each individual will end up with far less than Remington's currently offered $200-250. But the lawyers won't.
And sadly it will be years before anyone besides the lawyers will see any money at all if this goes the lawyer route. If you take your money now, life goes on. A check for $30 arriving in the mail five years from now won't have much spending clout...
-BCB
LOL....!! Your last couple of posts have created a lot of amusement on my part but not any anger.
You must be real bored to keep trying to pick a fight over next to nothing. Sorry I mentioned its 75 miles between gun shops where you live versus me having a bunch real close together where I live which would allow me to quickly make my point.
Should that simple fact of distance create some form of insecurity for one of us, and if that's an issue beyond the fact that it is, which one of us should feel insecure...? And I also apologize for saying its been cold where you live. LOL..!!
Beyond that, for some reason you're just jousting at wind mills now. If you have some perverse need to declare yourself king of some imaginary issue, feel free to do so. I'm sure you deserve the accolades you're heaping on yourself.
For me, I never said dealers are directly at fault for this issue. You're reading between the lines and extrapolating on your own to come up with that. I'm just saying that setting a fixed amount for reimbursement is quicker and more efficient for everyone involved than trying to handle every single issue by itself because of differences in dealer mark-ups, etc. But you already knew that.
If and when your much desired class action law suit comes about so that everyone will "get their due", each individual will end up with far less than Remington's currently offered $200-250. But the lawyers won't.
And sadly it will be years before anyone besides the lawyers will see any money at all if this goes the lawyer route. If you take your money now, life goes on. A check for $30 arriving in the mail five years from now won't have much spending clout...
-BCB
sandhillshunter
New member
Oh BCB, where to start? Still hung up on where I live uh? All those silvery words to basically come up with nothing more then a "playground" comeback. I expected so much more then this from you! Now come on BCB, we all can see that your angered in those last two posts of yours. Didn't realize you were that touchy! You are right though, this is boring as it's not much of a challenge for me. This is why, I will just be done with the whole thread. Im just glad knowing, I got under the skin of the "legendary" BCB. You know, everytime you see me post your going to think of this little go around of ours and the steam is going to roll from you burning ears. Owned Baby!
You know what the truly classic thing is, we both know that you just can't let it go!
Love ya BCB!
You know what the truly classic thing is, we both know that you just can't let it go!
Love ya BCB!
doggin coyotes
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: sandhillshunterYou know, everytime you see me post your going to think of this little go around of ours and the steam is going to roll from you burning ears. Owned Baby!
Love ya BCB!
Oh brother! How old are you sandhills?
Love ya BCB!
Oh brother! How old are you sandhills?
Bayou City Boy
New member
Originally Posted By: doggin coyotesOriginally Posted By: sandhillshunterYou know, everytime you see me post your going to think of this little go around of ours and the steam is going to roll from you burning ears. Owned Baby!
Love ya BCB!
Oh brother! How old are you sandhills?
LOL...!! I have no idea about his age, but at any age one thing is certain, he's definitely "a legend in his own mind"...
He's a perfect example of a Don Quixote type "sparring at windmills and slaying dragons"...
-BCB
Love ya BCB!
Oh brother! How old are you sandhills?
LOL...!! I have no idea about his age, but at any age one thing is certain, he's definitely "a legend in his own mind"...
He's a perfect example of a Don Quixote type "sparring at windmills and slaying dragons"...
-BCB