Need the scoop on Berger Bullets! Proof of Good/Bad, not just an opinion

I've used them for LR target shooting and LR deer hunting.

I"ve done limited shooting with the .257" 115g VLD out of my 25-06, one load at 3025fps, the other at 3260fps. They are both very accurate loads. I haven't gotten a chance to shoot any animals with these, yet. I have however shot milk jugs with them at 400 yards and it all but desintegrates the milk jugs. So my initial thought is they are going to be very destructive bullets, good for coyotes, maybe antelope, but I dont know if I'd trust them on deer based on what I"ve seen with VLD's from my 7 RM.

The ones I"ve used for hunting (muleys) were the 168g and 180g VLD out of a 7 RM at 2950fps and 2825fps from my 24" rem 700. Very accurate bullets. I've got 3 recorded kills with the 168g vld and 1 kill with the 180g vld. Both bullets couldn't have acted more differently IMO. Shot a coyote about 75 yards in the neck with the 168g vld and it left about a 2-3" exit hole, coyote was DRT. 1st deer kill was a buck I my buddy shot around 250 yards with the 168g VLD at 2950fps. He hit him behind the shoulder as he is a meat hunter. At the shot, you could instantly see blood coming out the exit hole like old faithful. The buck went up the hill about 5 yards then back down about 20. There was about a 2" exit hole and massive internal damage. Perfect IMO. Few days later I was able to fill my tag at 618 yards. I dialed in and held for the shoulder. At the shot the buck dropped and started rolling downhill, however he was clearly not dead, but not able to get up. I put another one in his neck and that settled it. Upon arriving, I noticed no exit on the 1st initial shoulder hit. On the 2nd and killing neck shot, the bullet exited but I found a small chunk of the bullet right on the edge of the exit hole. When I skinned it out, the 1st bullet had hit the shoulder bone and went about 3/4 of the way through. The insides were completely torn apart. I never did find the bullet, just pieces of the jacket. After those 2 experiences I decided I'd play with the heavier 180g for the next year.

Next year came and I had my chance with the 180g VLD at 2825fps. I figured the 125fps difference in speed/weight should give me a little better penetration and not so much expansion. Few days into the season I shot a forked horn about 100 yards was all, straight on the shoulder, the little buck just stood there and barely made a flinch. I put another one behind his shoulder and he ran off a little ways and eventually fell over dead. Upon examininng/skinning the deer, the bullets just didn't open up at all. I had very little internal damage and PINSIZE exit holes on both shots.

I also shot milk jugs filled with water with both 168 and 180 VLD's and they both had the same effect on deer as the jugs IMO. With the 168's they all but desintegrated the jugs, obviously showing violent expansion. With the 180's, they were falling over like if you had shot them with FMJ's. No "POP" what-so-ever.

I decided to not use VLD's out of my 7 RM at least for deer hunting. I didn't want to risk the bullet not doing its job, even though I did mine.

I have also played with the .308" 210g VLD out of a 300 RUM at 3000fps. I shot LR targets out to 1150 yards with these and they did extremely well with a little tuned up factory 700 BDL. The only animal I shot with the 210g VLD was a very unlucky coyote at about 100 yards. Hit him in the shoulder and a poof of hair blew out about 10 yards in diamter and flipped the coyote backwards. It left about a pie plate exit and he was basically hanging by the top and bottom skin. From that perspective, I'd say those bullets were also showing very rapid expansion, even on such a small thin skinned animal.

My conclusion is that I probly wont be using Bergers VLD's on anything I want to put on my wall. I just dont trust them. There are other bullets out there that will shoot almost just as far, but give you the same terminal perfermance near 100% of the time instead of sometimes.

They are very accurate bullets and great for LR target shooting. I"d also use them for coyotes as I dont save pelts.

Best I can say is try them out in whatever you got. If you have good experience with them and they are working for you, then great!!
 
Here's one experience and you can draw from it what you will....although ONE deer isn't a big sample of what a bullet will/won't do.


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That one was shot with 243AI and an 105 Berger VLD at 3050fps. They CAN give you dramatic results in that they are designed to come apart....but penetrate a few inches before they do. This one was shot quartering toward me and high in the shoulder. The bullet penetrated the shoulder and just came unhinged inside the chest cavity....there was no exit. The entrance through the shoulder was just about a bullet sized hole, when I pulled that shoulder off to cut it up there was a hole about the size of a golfball in the ribs. So expansion happened just a few inches inside the critter and was then very rapid. Nothing exited.

They are not designed to give you the stem to stern penetration that you can get from other type of bullets but they do a good job at what they are designed to do.

I (personally) like tougher bullets and my experimenting with Berger's on big game is over with. They are just not what I want in a bullet. I'll go so far as to say that guys who are a fan of just shooting deer behind the shoulder in classic broadside shots don't need to use any kind of "premium" (for lack of a better term) bullet. Most any bullet works fine for punching holes in ribs. It's when you start adding angles, bone, penetration, and speed that you find guys bitching about the traditional styled bullets....at least from what I've seen.

A buddy of mine was filling doe tag's with a 7wsm and 180gr VLD's. He had one that was hit behind the shoulder through the lungs and it ran a long way before he recovered it. When cleaning it out he found a pencil hole going it and a pencil hole going out....that shouldn't have happened but it did.

Here's a write up by John Barsness who has a lot of experience with the Bergers on game.

Quote:
For longer shooting another good whitetail bullet is the Berger VLD. This is the only bullet I know of which will not expand until it gets around 2 inches inside the animal. All other start expanding immediately when hitting skin, but the VLD gets inside and THEN expands, quite violently. On smaller deer it can make a really big hole on the offside, but on bigger bucks often there is only a pencil-thin entrance wound, and what remains of the bullet splattered against the ribs on the far side. It kills quicker, on average, than any other bullet I've ever used.



Source of quote: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/December_2008.html
 
I did not have good luck with the 115 VLD's in my 25-06 on mulies. I shot 3 bucks with them from 150 to 240 yards and was not impressed with the results. All were double lung and all traveled farther than I thought they should. I went back to my Sierra Game Kings and got the kind of results that I expected. The hard part of all of this for me is that the Bergers were far & away the most accurate in my rifle. At ranges beyond 350 yards, there is a very noticible difference in trajectory! I now can't wait to try Bergers new hunting bullets....I have high hopes for them!!!
 
I use berger 52grn match hollowpoints in my 22-250 they shoot very good and make a really big hole in coyotes on exit,I'v never had a problem with them
 
Berger has recently changed some of their lineup to a 'thick' jacket. The results that have been posted in the past most likely would not apply to the newer bullet's performance.
 
The bullets Berger is selling as the hunting bullet is their original thin jacket bullet. This past year I took 1 deer and 2 antelope with the 175 VLD in my .308 running 2600 fps, and 1 deer with the 155.5 fullbore bullet at around 2850 in the same rifle. The antelope were taken at 331 yards on a mature buck, and 122 on a yearling. In both cases there was a bullet diameter entrance, and the animal dropped on the spot. The one at 331 had a golfball sized exit. The one at 122 had a softball sized exit with the off side lung being pulled to the outside of the body, I believe this was due to the higher speed at impact, and the smaller body size. In both cases everything inside the ribcage was destroyed with significant blood shot on the exit side of the smaller closer antelope. Both shots were broad side with the impact in tight behind the shoulder.

The first deer was shot with the 175 at a distance of 200 yards slightly quartering toward me. The shot was placed through the back of the lungs and liver. The entrance was very much like those found on the further of the antelope. The exit was about the size of a pool ball. Lungs and liver were mush, some blood shot was found, however ther was minimal to no appreciable meat loss. The wound channel was about 50% longer than in the larger antelope. This one was about borderline on the amount of colateral damage I like to see.

The second deer was shot at 175 yards quartering away with the 155.5 fullbore. The enterance broke 3 ribs and there was no exit. I was able to recover 75 grains worth of bullet. The largest piece was found under the hide at approximately the offside collar bone. The on side lung and aorta were shreaded, one fragment passed through the front of the off side lung. There was a significant amount of jellied area in the off side shoulder leading to about 3-4 pounds of meat loss at is was confined to the ribs and underside of the shoulder blade.

The 155.5 was a bit more frangible than I would have liked to have seen, but I was trying it as Berger did not have any information on it being used on a game animal at the time.

I will continue to use the 175 VLD for deer and antelope. In fact I just bought 1200 more of them. I wouldn't suggest this bullet if your shots are going to be under 200-250 yards as that is wher I saw the excess damage. Once the bullet has a chance to burn off some velocity I think it can do very well. I should know more this year as I will be trying to shoot my antelope between 350-500 yards seeing if the result is comparable.
 
never got to shoot a deer with the 140 bergers in my 6.5 Gibbs this year, but groups were to the tune of 4" at 836 yards while tuning the drop chart.
RR
 
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