Ive been reading about suppressing an AR not being entirely feasible because they dont like to eat some subsonic rounds. My question is would a lightweight bolt carrier solve this issue? I would think that a lighter carrier would equate to the ability of the rifle to cycle a lighter powder charged round. Anybody with any knowledge on the matter?
Lightweight carrier
- Thread starter BigGrizz
- Start date
JoeBobOutfitters
New member
Originally Posted By: BigGrizzIve been reading about suppressing an AR not being entirely feasible because they dont like to eat some subsonic rounds. My question is would a lightweight bolt carrier solve this issue? I would think that a lighter carrier would equate to the ability of the rifle to cycle a lighter powder charged round. Anybody with any knowledge on the matter?
No....
The problem with subsonic 223, for instance, is it wasn't designed to do so. Less kinetic energy substantially less than "normal". It wasn't a round designed to run subsonic. 300BLK is a different beast, and easy to tweak things to shoot subsonic rounds. However, that's a 220gr bullet, not a ~60-70gr.
No....
The problem with subsonic 223, for instance, is it wasn't designed to do so. Less kinetic energy substantially less than "normal". It wasn't a round designed to run subsonic. 300BLK is a different beast, and easy to tweak things to shoot subsonic rounds. However, that's a 220gr bullet, not a ~60-70gr.
JoeBobOutfitters
New member
Originally Posted By: BigGrizzSo the issue isnt the inability to cycle but the low kinetic energy applied to the target?
It's the inability to cycle....slow speed and small bullet=not much gas or pressure to cycle action.
Besides, why do you want a subsonic 223? At that point you might as well shoot a 22LR that's easier and cheaper to shoot subsonic. 223 is versatile and powerful due to velocity, not bullet size. 223 bullets super slow are pretty weak....
Shoot 223 SUPERSONIC with a can to make it quieter and still a viable caliber. Shoot a subsonic 22LR or 300BLK for shooting an AR QUIET without sacrificing anything on the caliber itself. All 3 of those options can be shoot reliably, suppressed through an AR15.
It's the inability to cycle....slow speed and small bullet=not much gas or pressure to cycle action.
Besides, why do you want a subsonic 223? At that point you might as well shoot a 22LR that's easier and cheaper to shoot subsonic. 223 is versatile and powerful due to velocity, not bullet size. 223 bullets super slow are pretty weak....
Shoot 223 SUPERSONIC with a can to make it quieter and still a viable caliber. Shoot a subsonic 22LR or 300BLK for shooting an AR QUIET without sacrificing anything on the caliber itself. All 3 of those options can be shoot reliably, suppressed through an AR15.
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Evil_Lurker
New member
Quote:Besides, why do you want a subsonic 223? At that point you might as well shoot a 22LR that's easier and cheaper to shoot subsonic.
Exactly, plus you'll have a lead bullet that will give you some expansion, which no jacketed bullet will at that velocity.
Exactly, plus you'll have a lead bullet that will give you some expansion, which no jacketed bullet will at that velocity.
Gotta love the internet!
I gotta ask
What is the big deal with everyone wanting to shoot sub sonic rounds???
I mean is there some top secret covert mission going on about shooting animals quietly??? Will the sonic crack will ruin the mission?
Wouldn't a Bow and arrow be better for this mission if you choose to accept it?
I mean come on!
And yes I think the 300BLK is a bigger joke on customers then the zombie crazy right now! At least Zombies are cool!
I gotta ask
What is the big deal with everyone wanting to shoot sub sonic rounds???
I mean is there some top secret covert mission going on about shooting animals quietly??? Will the sonic crack will ruin the mission?
Wouldn't a Bow and arrow be better for this mission if you choose to accept it?
I mean come on!
And yes I think the 300BLK is a bigger joke on customers then the zombie crazy right now! At least Zombies are cool!
JoeBobOutfitters
New member
Originally Posted By: dmpowderGotta love the internet!
I gotta ask
What is the big deal with everyone wanting to shoot sub sonic rounds???
I mean is there some top secret covert mission going on about shooting animals quietly??? Will the sonic crack will ruin the mission?
Wouldn't a Bow and arrow be better for this mission if you choose to accept it?
I mean come on!
And yes I think the 300BLK is a bigger joke on customers then the zombie crazy right now! At least Zombies are cool!
The real question is why haven't you shot a 300BLK yet? Mild recoil, lots of ft lbs of energy (like a 30-30 from an AR15 with all of the same components other than the barrel), and a huge range of bullet weights.
300BLK is a pretty versatile caliber. It's not the BEST, ballistics-wise, but it's great in an AR platform even with a short barrel.
I gotta ask
What is the big deal with everyone wanting to shoot sub sonic rounds???
I mean is there some top secret covert mission going on about shooting animals quietly??? Will the sonic crack will ruin the mission?
Wouldn't a Bow and arrow be better for this mission if you choose to accept it?
I mean come on!
And yes I think the 300BLK is a bigger joke on customers then the zombie crazy right now! At least Zombies are cool!
The real question is why haven't you shot a 300BLK yet? Mild recoil, lots of ft lbs of energy (like a 30-30 from an AR15 with all of the same components other than the barrel), and a huge range of bullet weights.
300BLK is a pretty versatile caliber. It's not the BEST, ballistics-wise, but it's great in an AR platform even with a short barrel.
Just my .02/national debt.
But if you like using the .223 and want to try the subsonic ammo, I say give it a try. I would get an adjustable gasblock to get them to cycle though. I think there are only a few companies that are making subsonic .223 ammo (EBR being the main one that comes to mind).
Although not as efficient as 300blkout I don't think 62gr sierra match king going 1100 FPS is anything to sneeze at
But if you like using the .223 and want to try the subsonic ammo, I say give it a try. I would get an adjustable gasblock to get them to cycle though. I think there are only a few companies that are making subsonic .223 ammo (EBR being the main one that comes to mind).
Although not as efficient as 300blkout I don't think 62gr sierra match king going 1100 FPS is anything to sneeze at
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C.Jay
New member
Originally Posted By: dmpowderGotta love the internet!
I gotta ask
What is the big deal with everyone wanting to shoot sub sonic rounds???
I mean is there some top secret covert mission going on about shooting animals quietly??? Will the sonic crack will ruin the mission?
Wouldn't a Bow and arrow be better for this mission if you choose to accept it?
I mean come on!
And yes I think the 300BLK is a bigger joke on customers then the zombie crazy right now! At least Zombies are cool!
Because it is fun???
Kinda like the same folks that gotta own pitbulls/Rotties/Boxers......supports the tough guy persona.
I gotta ask
What is the big deal with everyone wanting to shoot sub sonic rounds???
I mean is there some top secret covert mission going on about shooting animals quietly??? Will the sonic crack will ruin the mission?
Wouldn't a Bow and arrow be better for this mission if you choose to accept it?
I mean come on!
And yes I think the 300BLK is a bigger joke on customers then the zombie crazy right now! At least Zombies are cool!
Because it is fun???
Kinda like the same folks that gotta own pitbulls/Rotties/Boxers......supports the tough guy persona.
Originally Posted By: JoeBobOutfitters
The real question is why haven't you shot a 300BLK yet? Mild recoil, lots of ft lbs of energy (like a 30-30 from an AR15 with all of the same components other than the barrel), and a huge range of bullet weights.
300BLK is a pretty versatile caliber. It's not the BEST, ballistics-wise, but it's great in an AR platform even with a short barrel.
Na got the 6's,6.5, and the 6.8 plus I would get the range if needed! So again what does it have that I can't get already??? Maybe a couple hundred Ftlbs if that would have to run some numbers to see!
Sure the 50's smoke the 300BLK.
The real question is why haven't you shot a 300BLK yet? Mild recoil, lots of ft lbs of energy (like a 30-30 from an AR15 with all of the same components other than the barrel), and a huge range of bullet weights.
300BLK is a pretty versatile caliber. It's not the BEST, ballistics-wise, but it's great in an AR platform even with a short barrel.
Na got the 6's,6.5, and the 6.8 plus I would get the range if needed! So again what does it have that I can't get already??? Maybe a couple hundred Ftlbs if that would have to run some numbers to see!
Sure the 50's smoke the 300BLK.
Originally Posted By: C.Jay
Because it is fun???
Kinda like the same folks that gotta own pitbulls/Rotties/Boxers......supports the tough guy persona.
Because what's fun????? Not hearing the sonic crack??? Making you think your in a movie??? Thinking your some special agent??? 007 maybe???
Isn't that what Airsoft is for?
He looks so tough with that chain around his neck and his cropped ears showing teeth don't he????
Oh wait he has none of the above!!!
Recheck your mean dog list and you will see Boxers are at the bottom of the lists! Right above Dalmatians and we all know how tough they are!
Nice try but I own a boxer because they are great dogs! Great with kids and other dogs. They have lots of energy which helps with the kids and can keep up! But what would you know about the breed since they are only there to give the owner the tough guy persona! We know you don't need that! I mean come on your trying to insult a guy online with his dog.
PS when you come across a mean/tough dog 10 out of 10 times the owner is a even bigger A$$hole! Don't hold it against a dogs breed because of their owners! Your probably one of those people that helps ban certain breeds of dogs in your town all because they scare you.
Because it is fun???
Kinda like the same folks that gotta own pitbulls/Rotties/Boxers......supports the tough guy persona.
Because what's fun????? Not hearing the sonic crack??? Making you think your in a movie??? Thinking your some special agent??? 007 maybe???
Isn't that what Airsoft is for?
He looks so tough with that chain around his neck and his cropped ears showing teeth don't he????
Oh wait he has none of the above!!!
Recheck your mean dog list and you will see Boxers are at the bottom of the lists! Right above Dalmatians and we all know how tough they are!
Nice try but I own a boxer because they are great dogs! Great with kids and other dogs. They have lots of energy which helps with the kids and can keep up! But what would you know about the breed since they are only there to give the owner the tough guy persona! We know you don't need that! I mean come on your trying to insult a guy online with his dog.
PS when you come across a mean/tough dog 10 out of 10 times the owner is a even bigger A$$hole! Don't hold it against a dogs breed because of their owners! Your probably one of those people that helps ban certain breeds of dogs in your town all because they scare you.
JoeBobOutfitters
New member
Originally Posted By: dmpowderOriginally Posted By: JoeBobOutfitters
The real question is why haven't you shot a 300BLK yet? Mild recoil, lots of ft lbs of energy (like a 30-30 from an AR15 with all of the same components other than the barrel), and a huge range of bullet weights.
300BLK is a pretty versatile caliber. It's not the BEST, ballistics-wise, but it's great in an AR platform even with a short barrel.
Na got the 6's,6.5, and the 6.8 plus I would get the range if needed! So again what does it have that I can't get already??? Maybe a couple hundred Ftlbs if that would have to run some numbers to see!
Sure the 50's smoke the 300BLK.
So you already have a handful of AR15 calibers which already overlap, really, in their usefulness and you're questioning the 300BLK and desire? All needed different magazines than 223, different bolts, and different barrels. I'm confused
It sounds like YOU, personally, don't have a desire or need for a 300BLK but you already have overlapping calibers. Logistically, 300BLK is better than all of those calibers you have. However, it really shines in bullet weight variations available and subsonic loads.
The real question is why haven't you shot a 300BLK yet? Mild recoil, lots of ft lbs of energy (like a 30-30 from an AR15 with all of the same components other than the barrel), and a huge range of bullet weights.
300BLK is a pretty versatile caliber. It's not the BEST, ballistics-wise, but it's great in an AR platform even with a short barrel.
Na got the 6's,6.5, and the 6.8 plus I would get the range if needed! So again what does it have that I can't get already??? Maybe a couple hundred Ftlbs if that would have to run some numbers to see!
Sure the 50's smoke the 300BLK.
So you already have a handful of AR15 calibers which already overlap, really, in their usefulness and you're questioning the 300BLK and desire? All needed different magazines than 223, different bolts, and different barrels. I'm confused
It sounds like YOU, personally, don't have a desire or need for a 300BLK but you already have overlapping calibers. Logistically, 300BLK is better than all of those calibers you have. However, it really shines in bullet weight variations available and subsonic loads.
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Subsonic 223 was just an idea that Ive been kicking around mostly because if youre going to put a suppressor in something and you want it to be quiet why not go all the way. The 300BLK was also am option because I could use the suppressor on my 308 also. Im just lookin to get more dead critters on the ground......
C.Jay
New member
Dude, it was a joke, didn't mean to hit a nerve. Settle down a bit and lets talk about guns and shooting.
Just because it is not in your safe doesn't mean some one else might not find enjoyment out of it. You sound like one of those bolt-only guys think believe "Thar ain't no dog gone use fer one of those derned assault rifles, ban 'em all!!!"
And thank you for making my point in defense of your dog. My best friend raises Boxers and I know what wonderful dogs they are.
....hook, line and sinker.
All is well, good topic, so far.
Originally Posted By: dmpowderOriginally Posted By: C.Jay
Because it is fun???
Kinda like the same folks that gotta own pitbulls/Rotties/Boxers......supports the tough guy persona.
Because what's fun????? Not hearing the sonic crack??? Making you think your in a movie??? Thinking your some special agent??? 007 maybe???
Isn't that what Airsoft is for?
He looks so tough with that chain around his neck and his cropped ears showing teeth don't he????
Oh wait he has none of the above!!!
Recheck your mean dog list and you will see Boxers are at the bottom of the lists! Right above Dalmatians and we all know how tough they are!
Nice try but I own a boxer because they are great dogs! Great with kids and other dogs. They have lots of energy which helps with the kids and can keep up! But what would you know about the breed since they are only there to give the owner the tough guy persona! We know you don't need that! I mean come on your trying to insult a guy online with his dog.
PS when you come across a mean/tough dog 10 out of 10 times the owner is a even bigger A$$hole! Don't hold it against a dogs breed because of their owners! Your probably one of those people that helps ban certain breeds of dogs in your town all because they scare you.
Just because it is not in your safe doesn't mean some one else might not find enjoyment out of it. You sound like one of those bolt-only guys think believe "Thar ain't no dog gone use fer one of those derned assault rifles, ban 'em all!!!"
And thank you for making my point in defense of your dog. My best friend raises Boxers and I know what wonderful dogs they are.
....hook, line and sinker.
All is well, good topic, so far.
Originally Posted By: dmpowderOriginally Posted By: C.Jay
Because it is fun???
Kinda like the same folks that gotta own pitbulls/Rotties/Boxers......supports the tough guy persona.
Because what's fun????? Not hearing the sonic crack??? Making you think your in a movie??? Thinking your some special agent??? 007 maybe???
Isn't that what Airsoft is for?
He looks so tough with that chain around his neck and his cropped ears showing teeth don't he????
Oh wait he has none of the above!!!
Recheck your mean dog list and you will see Boxers are at the bottom of the lists! Right above Dalmatians and we all know how tough they are!
Nice try but I own a boxer because they are great dogs! Great with kids and other dogs. They have lots of energy which helps with the kids and can keep up! But what would you know about the breed since they are only there to give the owner the tough guy persona! We know you don't need that! I mean come on your trying to insult a guy online with his dog.
PS when you come across a mean/tough dog 10 out of 10 times the owner is a even bigger A$$hole! Don't hold it against a dogs breed because of their owners! Your probably one of those people that helps ban certain breeds of dogs in your town all because they scare you.
Varminterror
New member
300 blackout as SS? Sure, knock yourself out, almost even makes sense. SS .223? No. It's stupid. The twist rate isn't going to stabilize the bullet, and you'll be seeing huge ES from excessive void space in the cartridge case. Want 50grns at SS velocity AND improved expansion? Get a .22wmr.
Just because you CAN do something that doesn't mean that you should actually do it. Subsonic .223rem is one of those things.
Just because you CAN do something that doesn't mean that you should actually do it. Subsonic .223rem is one of those things.
Varminterror
New member
To the point of the question though...
It'll take more than a lightweight BCG to cycle SS .223 rounds. Tuning the gas block, lighter BCG, lighter recoil spring. Lightweight bcg's are really about getting faster rates of fire, read wearing out your rifle faster to win matches. One trick I've used for a similar project was a carbine gas system on a 22" barrel, puts more power back to the BCG to help a low momentum projectile cycle the action. But now you're talking about a very different and very specialized upper to get to cycle them. That's not versatility, that's building a 22mag DI upper chambered for 223.
Conservation of momentum, if you cut bullet velocity by 2/3, you're just not leaving much left to cycle the action. Lightweight bcg's don't cut mass THAT MUCH.
It'll take more than a lightweight BCG to cycle SS .223 rounds. Tuning the gas block, lighter BCG, lighter recoil spring. Lightweight bcg's are really about getting faster rates of fire, read wearing out your rifle faster to win matches. One trick I've used for a similar project was a carbine gas system on a 22" barrel, puts more power back to the BCG to help a low momentum projectile cycle the action. But now you're talking about a very different and very specialized upper to get to cycle them. That's not versatility, that's building a 22mag DI upper chambered for 223.
Conservation of momentum, if you cut bullet velocity by 2/3, you're just not leaving much left to cycle the action. Lightweight bcg's don't cut mass THAT MUCH.
Overwatcher
New member
I just want night vision with a suppressor 300 BLk,Ghille Suit,watch some chuck Norris movies and listen to the bond theme song the entire time on my IPOD while I'm out zombie hunting..why? Cause I can.
Love the guy thinking that the only reason people want to shoot sub/suppressed stuff is for that.
Suppressors are awesome in the field, even with a supersonic round..Way easier to you and your hunting buddy's ears.
There is a lot of good hunting around here where you are close to cattle,horses and ranches..having a can for these areas allows you to keep coming back without making the place a war zone and pissing the owners off.
People don't buy the 300 BLK to JUST shoot subs,there are some good loads that are quite impressive for the design and the fact that other then the barrel/dies your ready to go.
Break out of your wood stock laminated shell and realize that not everyone who has a can is a mall ninja.
Love the guy thinking that the only reason people want to shoot sub/suppressed stuff is for that.
Suppressors are awesome in the field, even with a supersonic round..Way easier to you and your hunting buddy's ears.
There is a lot of good hunting around here where you are close to cattle,horses and ranches..having a can for these areas allows you to keep coming back without making the place a war zone and pissing the owners off.
People don't buy the 300 BLK to JUST shoot subs,there are some good loads that are quite impressive for the design and the fact that other then the barrel/dies your ready to go.
Break out of your wood stock laminated shell and realize that not everyone who has a can is a mall ninja.