That's the problem with people that don't get to shoot a lot of coyotes or cats, they shoot that pellet gun at a fox or 2 and all of a sudden, they can kill elephants with it. I did make a stupid mistake once when the .17 first got popular, I QUICKLY used it for a fencepost and went back to shooting my .223. I understand if you can't take the recoil, but I've said it before and I'll say it again...the .17 caliber is a good caliber for a pellet gun, but if you're gonna' try to knock down a real varmint, load up a bigger gun. Now, about the front chest shots that ran away...nevermind I think ya'll get my point. Hey Buker, JH called and said you could bring your sissy gun out and hunt with him??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif