How come no one has mentioned the recent shooting in Florida?
- Thread starter pyscodog
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Plant.One
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Stu Farishno one wants all teachers armed.
my idea is simpler: lift the gun free school zone ban for adults. any adult who is legal to carry & wants to may do so on school grounds. admin, grounds staff, bus drivers, crossing guards, parents, teachers. anyone who doesn't want to doesn't have to but ones who are willing to take the responsibility may do so.
no one has any idea who is armed but it's possible that any adult in the vicinity may be.
bingo. add in some basic property security - ie: fences and controlled access via an entrance point(s) with a flip up barrier like any parking structure anywhere with a person in the booth, and you'll prevent probably >95% of the cowards who are interested in doing this kind of thing from even trying.
I have to use a parking structure for one of my customers who's in an office building. its a public parking structure. i cant tell you how many folks use the structure, but the folks who work there all know who's normally coming and going and many of us get greeted by name. i'm on a first name basis with several of the attendants who i see regularly, and the rest of the ones who work different shifts we at least know each other by sight.
so even on a larger campus its not hard to recognize the people you see *EVERY* day - thats your JOB. add in some kind of photo ID card swipe system for student drivers & parents and you've got an easy ID of who should & shouldn't be coming or going.
now i appreciate that with a campus of 3000 theres a bit of a crush in the morning for arrivals, likewise for parent pickups in the afternoon, but thats just logistics of scale appropriate for the campus size. it would be easy for folks who are already employed by the school to help fill the extra booths for high volume times - just like school staff who often used to go out for crossing guard duty in the mornings and afternoons - and low volume access times can be regaled to a single full time security guy (maybe even the school safety resource officer?).
Point being there's ways around it that wouldnt involve a huge amount of extra labor cost to the school.
my idea is simpler: lift the gun free school zone ban for adults. any adult who is legal to carry & wants to may do so on school grounds. admin, grounds staff, bus drivers, crossing guards, parents, teachers. anyone who doesn't want to doesn't have to but ones who are willing to take the responsibility may do so.
no one has any idea who is armed but it's possible that any adult in the vicinity may be.
bingo. add in some basic property security - ie: fences and controlled access via an entrance point(s) with a flip up barrier like any parking structure anywhere with a person in the booth, and you'll prevent probably >95% of the cowards who are interested in doing this kind of thing from even trying.
I have to use a parking structure for one of my customers who's in an office building. its a public parking structure. i cant tell you how many folks use the structure, but the folks who work there all know who's normally coming and going and many of us get greeted by name. i'm on a first name basis with several of the attendants who i see regularly, and the rest of the ones who work different shifts we at least know each other by sight.
so even on a larger campus its not hard to recognize the people you see *EVERY* day - thats your JOB. add in some kind of photo ID card swipe system for student drivers & parents and you've got an easy ID of who should & shouldn't be coming or going.
now i appreciate that with a campus of 3000 theres a bit of a crush in the morning for arrivals, likewise for parent pickups in the afternoon, but thats just logistics of scale appropriate for the campus size. it would be easy for folks who are already employed by the school to help fill the extra booths for high volume times - just like school staff who often used to go out for crossing guard duty in the mornings and afternoons - and low volume access times can be regaled to a single full time security guy (maybe even the school safety resource officer?).
Point being there's ways around it that wouldnt involve a huge amount of extra labor cost to the school.
tnshootist
New member
What can be done to make sure attacks on innocents never happen again? (The common phrase to use every time anything bad happens.)
Really not much.
Look at Israel and what they do.This stuff has been happening there for a long time.
They can only prepare to deal with it when it does happen.
All the effort to prevent is fine but better still prepare to deal with it when those preparations fail.
As for the clamor for the Feds to do something.
Right. The Feds do such a good job on everything else Right?
Better think through all the ideas being floated.
One that sounds good is limiting the doors that are open to students access.
That might be ok till the day they have a fire then we can talk about adding doors so "nothing like this can ever happen again".
Nobody is ever safe anywhere.Bad things happen.Better face that fact and deal with it.
When I was in grade school they used to have us practice what we would do in case of nuke attack.
I was pretty sure that hiding under my desk would not work to well but it was something I guess.
Really not much.
Look at Israel and what they do.This stuff has been happening there for a long time.
They can only prepare to deal with it when it does happen.
All the effort to prevent is fine but better still prepare to deal with it when those preparations fail.
As for the clamor for the Feds to do something.
Right. The Feds do such a good job on everything else Right?
Better think through all the ideas being floated.
One that sounds good is limiting the doors that are open to students access.
That might be ok till the day they have a fire then we can talk about adding doors so "nothing like this can ever happen again".
Nobody is ever safe anywhere.Bad things happen.Better face that fact and deal with it.
When I was in grade school they used to have us practice what we would do in case of nuke attack.
I was pretty sure that hiding under my desk would not work to well but it was something I guess.
littledawg
New member
So how much are you willing to pay to fund these new security measures; extra $50 a month, $100 a month, put a dollar figure on it.
Including everything; each officer in my state cost approximately 100K per year.
Including everything; each officer in my state cost approximately 100K per year.
littledawg
New member
That is one idea, but the first time one of these teachers doesn't secure their weapon and a kid smokes his 8 year friend, what do you think will happen?
we've had armed teachers in schools around the country for some years now. find me one example where that's happened
littledawg
New member
Originally Posted By: Stu Farishwe've had armed teachers in schools around the country for some years now. find me one example where that's happened
Give us a ballpark figure on the number of armed school teachers v. the 3-4 million teachers in the US.
Let's say you arm 1/3rd of the teachers; a million plus guns floating around schools every day. You don't think some will be stolen, accidentally discharged, or mishandled in some way? Outside of maybe Texas, teachers are usually liberal folks. There will always be exceptions, but the typical school teacher is not the type of people who handle or use firearms on a frequent basis.
I'm still waiting for a realistic and cost-effective approach to secure these target rich environments. Yall expect (or blame) the various branches of government for "not doing anything (enough)', but have yet to come up with a viable solution to the address the main issue, which is money. How much are you willing to pay?????
I did a little research; our school district has 50 schools with 31,500 students. It is pretty small compared to some. If a security or police force was hired it would cost about $200 per student to put one armed officer in each school. I added about 1.3 million for admin and supervision related costs. Which is probably low, probably be more like $225 per student.
So there is a price, now who should pay for it????????
Give us a ballpark figure on the number of armed school teachers v. the 3-4 million teachers in the US.
Let's say you arm 1/3rd of the teachers; a million plus guns floating around schools every day. You don't think some will be stolen, accidentally discharged, or mishandled in some way? Outside of maybe Texas, teachers are usually liberal folks. There will always be exceptions, but the typical school teacher is not the type of people who handle or use firearms on a frequent basis.
I'm still waiting for a realistic and cost-effective approach to secure these target rich environments. Yall expect (or blame) the various branches of government for "not doing anything (enough)', but have yet to come up with a viable solution to the address the main issue, which is money. How much are you willing to pay?????
I did a little research; our school district has 50 schools with 31,500 students. It is pretty small compared to some. If a security or police force was hired it would cost about $200 per student to put one armed officer in each school. I added about 1.3 million for admin and supervision related costs. Which is probably low, probably be more like $225 per student.
So there is a price, now who should pay for it????????
1 cop / school isn't going to do it, unless it's a really small school. too easy to plan around the cops typical or even observed location.
leave it up to volunteers, even limiting it to teachers and staff & not parents, maybe you end up to 10, 20 or more armed adults in school and no one knows just who they are. and it wouldn't cost the tax payers anything.
or we can keep doing the gun free school thing. if we like what we've been getting, then we should keep doing what we're doing, bc that's the outcome we can expect
leave it up to volunteers, even limiting it to teachers and staff & not parents, maybe you end up to 10, 20 or more armed adults in school and no one knows just who they are. and it wouldn't cost the tax payers anything.
or we can keep doing the gun free school thing. if we like what we've been getting, then we should keep doing what we're doing, bc that's the outcome we can expect
Rock Knocker
Active member
Some interesting stuff here. This is an interview with a teacher that was 20ft away, claiming the shooter was in head to toe body armor and a mask with a rifle she has never seen before.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/News/video/florida-teacher-describes-pulling-students-safety-53240314
That is the only video I can find on youtube, the link has the full interview.
There is another interview I saw on facebook that is a student that says she was talking and exiting the building with the "shooter" as the shooting was going on. She says "there was definitely more than one shooter." I will try to find a link to the video.
For those of you with facebook, check if this works.
https://www.facebook.com/woody.wood.7902...e=3&theater
I saw these two videos on facebook and figured it's certainly something that should be shared.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/News/video/florida-teacher-describes-pulling-students-safety-53240314
That is the only video I can find on youtube, the link has the full interview.
There is another interview I saw on facebook that is a student that says she was talking and exiting the building with the "shooter" as the shooting was going on. She says "there was definitely more than one shooter." I will try to find a link to the video.
For those of you with facebook, check if this works.
https://www.facebook.com/woody.wood.7902...e=3&theater
I saw these two videos on facebook and figured it's certainly something that should be shared.
Last edited:
Quote:The Garden Valley School gun policy 5 years later
by Sarah Jacobsen
"We've changed up our training just to meet the needs of those that have been coming, I mean we do scenarios and every time it is different."
BOISE, (KBOI) —
"I want them to come in and go 'I'm safe here,'" says Garden Valley Superintendent and Principal Greg Alexander.
The Garden Valley School began their weapons policy more than 5 years ago because of one reason. Proximity.
"The sheriff's department is in Idaho City, which on a good day is 45 minutes over the mountain."
Alexander says that if an active shooter situation happened, he and the school board want to be prepared. And now, years later, he says they are more prepared than ever.
"We've changed up our training just to meet the needs of those that have been coming, I mean we do scenarios and every time it is different."
And that's not all that has changed.
"We have an NRA certified national trainer that travels around the world to train different teams. He will also put us in scenarios and talk us through movements and being able to move and fire the weapon and thinking about what kind of scenarios are we going to face."
Staff train at a shooting range and practice active shooter scenarios.
They're also strengthening their skills through repetition and de-escalation techniques.
"The longer we are in the positions then we have, just that practice and that ability to go yeah, you know, that is a person we need to discuss and talk with and talk them down versus you know pulling out the weapons. We want to diffuse situations through talking."
Alexander tells KBOI 2 News that the policy will continue to adapt throughout time, but he believes he is creating a safer environment for all of his students.
http://idahonews.com/news/local/the-garden-valley-school-gun-policy-5-years-later
Regards,
hm
by Sarah Jacobsen
"We've changed up our training just to meet the needs of those that have been coming, I mean we do scenarios and every time it is different."
BOISE, (KBOI) —
"I want them to come in and go 'I'm safe here,'" says Garden Valley Superintendent and Principal Greg Alexander.
The Garden Valley School began their weapons policy more than 5 years ago because of one reason. Proximity.
"The sheriff's department is in Idaho City, which on a good day is 45 minutes over the mountain."
Alexander says that if an active shooter situation happened, he and the school board want to be prepared. And now, years later, he says they are more prepared than ever.
"We've changed up our training just to meet the needs of those that have been coming, I mean we do scenarios and every time it is different."
And that's not all that has changed.
"We have an NRA certified national trainer that travels around the world to train different teams. He will also put us in scenarios and talk us through movements and being able to move and fire the weapon and thinking about what kind of scenarios are we going to face."
Staff train at a shooting range and practice active shooter scenarios.
They're also strengthening their skills through repetition and de-escalation techniques.
"The longer we are in the positions then we have, just that practice and that ability to go yeah, you know, that is a person we need to discuss and talk with and talk them down versus you know pulling out the weapons. We want to diffuse situations through talking."
Alexander tells KBOI 2 News that the policy will continue to adapt throughout time, but he believes he is creating a safer environment for all of his students.
http://idahonews.com/news/local/the-garden-valley-school-gun-policy-5-years-later
Regards,
hm
oh really? 30 round mags weren't used?
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202486304.html
"Several state legislators who visited the school with crime-scene investigators said they learned from police that Cruz’s rifle was not top-of-the-line, perhaps explaining the malfunction.
The “weapon and bullets were not high quality and were breaking apart,” one of the legislators, state Sen. Lauren Book, D-Plantation, told the Herald.
Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said."
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202486304.html
"Several state legislators who visited the school with crime-scene investigators said they learned from police that Cruz’s rifle was not top-of-the-line, perhaps explaining the malfunction.
The “weapon and bullets were not high quality and were breaking apart,” one of the legislators, state Sen. Lauren Book, D-Plantation, told the Herald.
Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said."
littledawg
New member
Originally Posted By: Stu Farish1 cop / school isn't going to do it, unless it's a really small school. too easy to plan around the cops typical or even observed location.
leave it up to volunteers, even limiting it to teachers and staff & not parents, maybe you end up to 10, 20 or more armed adults in school and no one knows just who they are. and it wouldn't cost the tax payers anything.
or we can keep doing the gun free school thing. if we like what we've been getting, then we should keep doing what we're doing, bc that's the outcome we can expect
Sort of my point Stu, this simply won't work. It may work in places like; Idaho, Texas, Montana, etc., but it won't work for the majority of states. Most people didn't get in the business to be a gun-toting teacher. They don't want to do it and we cant make them do it. This isn't a realistic solution. Nobody wants a million guns floating around a bunch of adolescents who were eating Tide Pods three weeks ago.
If one officer isn't enough then do 2 or 3 or 5, heck I don't care, you name the price your willing to pay. Just for giggles, let's say you arm all 3.2 million teachers in the USA; how much are you willing to pay to train and/or incentivize those teachers??
Can't have it both ways my friend; its all about money.
leave it up to volunteers, even limiting it to teachers and staff & not parents, maybe you end up to 10, 20 or more armed adults in school and no one knows just who they are. and it wouldn't cost the tax payers anything.
or we can keep doing the gun free school thing. if we like what we've been getting, then we should keep doing what we're doing, bc that's the outcome we can expect
Sort of my point Stu, this simply won't work. It may work in places like; Idaho, Texas, Montana, etc., but it won't work for the majority of states. Most people didn't get in the business to be a gun-toting teacher. They don't want to do it and we cant make them do it. This isn't a realistic solution. Nobody wants a million guns floating around a bunch of adolescents who were eating Tide Pods three weeks ago.
If one officer isn't enough then do 2 or 3 or 5, heck I don't care, you name the price your willing to pay. Just for giggles, let's say you arm all 3.2 million teachers in the USA; how much are you willing to pay to train and/or incentivize those teachers??
Can't have it both ways my friend; its all about money.
don't have to arm all of them & no one is suggesting that, so that's utterly irrelevant. what's known as a straw man.
Originally Posted By: Stu Farishno one wants all teachers armed.
my idea is simpler: lift the gun free school zone ban for adults. any adult who is legal to carry & wants to may do so on school grounds. admin, grounds staff, bus drivers, crossing guards, parents, teachers. anyone who doesn't want to doesn't have to but ones who are willing to take the responsibility may do so.
no one has any idea who is armed but it's possible that any adult in the vicinity may be.
quoting myself from some days ago. that's what I would do if I had the power to make it so. and it wouldn't cost one thin dime to the tax payers.
my idea is simpler: lift the gun free school zone ban for adults. any adult who is legal to carry & wants to may do so on school grounds. admin, grounds staff, bus drivers, crossing guards, parents, teachers. anyone who doesn't want to doesn't have to but ones who are willing to take the responsibility may do so.
no one has any idea who is armed but it's possible that any adult in the vicinity may be.
quoting myself from some days ago. that's what I would do if I had the power to make it so. and it wouldn't cost one thin dime to the tax payers.