Found a den

Originally Posted By: jim87formulaOriginally Posted By: RedfrogWhy wait?

Around here I try to get the ranchers to wait till fur season, then I hammer the coyotes hard.

There's a few reasons why I would wait. Here's the list for ya:

First thing would be that they are still nursing and learning from their mother.

Second thing they have not harmed any livestock which was mentioned and noted in my first post. Which I monitor it pretty closely and stay in good contact with the rancher's hand and himself.

Third, I'd call myself a conservationist, even though they are just coyotes and there is open season. I've been involved in many years with wildlife management and volunteering my time with my DNR officers and teaching classes on fur harvesting, trapping, & etc.

Forth, coyote calling and hunting is a hobby that I love doing and I take out A LOT of friends, family, & co-workers on this hobby I care for deeply and very passionate about. I like to show new hunters.

Fifth, none of these coyotes around in my area have mange or are sickly, at least the ones that I have harvested in the past few months, so no rush, I can wait for about a month.

Sixth, I could say and lie to you about waiting for fur to prime up, which this is Texas these are no Alberta furred up yotes or like where I came from before which was in Iowa and the only time we hit coyotes hard were in the winter months due to the price of a pelt.

If you would like to know more about the reason "why" that I am not, you can go ahead and PM me but I do believe most of this explains the reason for "why". Least I hope so.

I understand your reasons, and as I said there are reasons for leaving them until fur season. I just didn't understand the reasoning in leaving them for a month.

We all have our own reasons for hunting and whether we hunt outside fur season. I have no issues with that at all. Some do some don't, personal choice.
 
Originally Posted By: flintrockIf the rancher found out that you found a den and did nothing, what would be the consequence?

Probably nothing with me but he might want them gone or have his ranch hand take care of them, who knows? I'm going to leave them alone until they are done with their mom or if they cause any issues. And I talked with the rancher a few days ago and even said he hasn't seen or heard any in 2 weeks but I also have been feeding them some hogs, coons, and armadillos so that might be the reason why.
 
Originally Posted By: crapshootFeeding coyotes on a working cattle ranch, probably not the smartest thing to do either.

I guess you never heard of a bait pile before...
 
Large and small cattle operators here have a bone pile in rock pits away from where any live cattle hang out.. This separates any confused urges of the predators by drawing them away.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3Large and small cattle operators here have a bone pile in rock pits away from where any live cattle hang out.. This separates any confused urges of the predators by drawing them away.

Yes sir, I guess some people don't know these things...smh
 
Coyotes have taken out over 50% of the deer herd in my state. Coyote numbers are going out of control. Turkeys have been hit real hard.

Coyotes here cross with dogs and get huge. In 2006, I killed a 63 lb coyote, and a week later, my partner shot one that weighed 72 lbs...coy dogs with a Red Wolf blood strain. These large coyotes can run a deer to death.

I hope that you guys do not experience this in your state.

Our Fish and Game dept is begging people to start trapping, but their hands are tied by regulations that are so restrictive it is simply stupid to even consider trapping in this state...what a shame.

I have seen only one fawn in the last two years.

For each coyote you kill, you are saving perhaps a fifty deer over that coyote's life time. If you don't like my number, make up one of your own.

Nature takes care of it's self all right, coyotes pretty much wipe out just about everything...or don't you remember Darwin's "Survival of the Fittest"?'

Coyotes were introduced in my state by the Houndsmen. I wish that they had brought over Ant eaters from Africa to get rid of these fire ants, they would actually do some good, instead of an animal that depletes one of our State's greatest natural resources.
 
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It really just depends on what you're trying to achieve. I wouldn't say anything about it and kill them when they're grown up. But if I were out to kill every coyote in sight I'd shoot them. If coyotes have mange I shoot them whenever I can. But again that's just me because I do kill coyotes for their pelts during the Winter. Plus there's no coyote calling contest going on so I wouldn't be wasting coyotes I could benefit from in the future. Again that's just me. I'm not a deer hunter,I hate deer to be quite honest. So if fawns get eatin it's no big deal to me. To each his own. I'm cool with whatever you choose to do.
 
Interesting post. When I was young I was helping Dad mow an alfalfa field he was custom haying. I came across a den and got to the truck, got the 22, and shot them all. After telling Dad he told me to not tell the landowner as he wouldn't be pleased, even though he was a big cattle rancher. That was hard to understand for me.

At this point I know what each landowner would want done and would act accordingly. Doing otherwise would probably cost my hunting privileges. And I have some that want them killed and some that wouldn't.

Growing up in agriculture I still feel like the landowner's interests come first. All the coyotes I shoot in several years don't make up enough income to cover even 1 dead calf.
 
If I were a rancher and I found out you weren't doing what you said you would for the permission I had granted you you would be gone. Pups juniors juveniles and old coyotes are all still coyotes. Lots of guys here seem to have a soft spot for "cute fluffy pups" if I se it it's dead regardless of age/sex/. And this is why. These pictures I took myself at a ranch I hunt where I'm told by the owners "kill them all" they were losing a calf/cow a week over the winter



 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Originally Posted By: viper I determine what I pull the trigger on. Personally I don't kill pups! I enjoy hunting coyotes and don't see sport in killing pups outside a den.
I understand how ranchers may feel about them though. That's a decision each person needs to make for themselves. I may not do it but would not tell you your wrong if you do. What I shoot them for and what a rancher shoots them for it two different things.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts too. I won't shoot pups, period. I generally won't hunt coyotes either if I know they might have pups in the den.
But, a neighbor does and will kill them all. He has cattle and has lost some to coyotes so I understand his thoughts. Not saying I'm right and he is wrong.
Just saying I don't feel good about it and so I won't.



This, right here.
thumbup1.gif


To the original poster, you presented something that divides people. Nothing wrong with the way you think or want to hunt. We all have different opinions. Good hunting!
 
Originally Posted By: BrownieIf I were a rancher and I found out you weren't doing what you said you would for the permission I had granted you you would be gone. Pups juniors juveniles and old coyotes are all still coyotes. Lots of guys here seem to have a soft spot for "cute fluffy pups" if I se it it's dead regardless of age/sex/. And this is why. These pictures I took myself at a ranch I hunt where I'm told by the owners "kill them all" they were losing a calf/cow a week over the winter





Completely understand you but it seems you didn't read my first post on this subject; no livestock have been killed since I've been on this property and they are not bothering the cattle. Even when the they were birthing calves I never seen a single coyote which in my belief the coyotes have plenty to eat, basically free meals that I have been handing out. But like you stated per your rancher, I'd be in the same boat, get rid of them all.
 
Originally Posted By: HereticOriginally Posted By: 6mm06
Originally Posted By: viper I determine what I pull the trigger on. Personally I don't kill pups! I enjoy hunting coyotes and don't see sport in killing pups outside a den.
I understand how ranchers may feel about them though. That's a decision each person needs to make for themselves. I may not do it but would not tell you your wrong if you do. What I shoot them for and what a rancher shoots them for it two different things.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts too. I won't shoot pups, period. I generally won't hunt coyotes either if I know they might have pups in the den.
But, a neighbor does and will kill them all. He has cattle and has lost some to coyotes so I understand his thoughts. Not saying I'm right and he is wrong.
Just saying I don't feel good about it and so I won't.



This, right here.
thumbup1.gif


To the original poster, you presented something that divides people. Nothing wrong with the way you think or want to hunt. We all have different opinions. Good hunting!

Yes sir, I wasn't really trying to stir the pot, mostly just curious on what some would do.

I'm on this property 3-4 days a week and the hogs are 15-1 compared to the coyotes, it's not like I'm tripping over the coyotes but almost with hogs though. And right now the hogs are doing more damage then the coyotes.

Also I appreciate everyone's opinions even though some I don't agree with or smart remarks (trying to troll).
 
I usually don't post on "what would you do" threads. We are all individuals and willing to stand different consequences for our actions. Do what you like. I would just say that around here, if I'm not getting the job done, there is always someone else willing to try.

Sorry, not trying to jack your thread, or Brownie, your reply, but that heifer died trying to deliver that calf. Evidenced by the smooth mud under her head and piled up behind her head. Also a smooth path under the calf's head. She laid there and thrashed for quite awhile. Also looks like she got her back and head downhill and hip locked that calf. The blood in the mucous inside her nose lends to suffocating in her own fluids. They do that quickly when they get "stuck" with their backs downhill. That is a management issue more than a coyote issue. The fact that the producer wants to blame it on coyotes is good for you/us though.
 
I wasn't going to comment, but I was thinking exactly what you just said flintrock. And, that's common as dirt, calf dies on it's own, coyotes start to eat, coyotes get blamed by the not very observant...

I'm just very thankful that I've never had to ask permission to hunt in my life and don't ever intend to.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: ackleymanCoyotes have taken out over 50% of the deer herd in my state. Coyote numbers are going out of control. Turkeys have been hit real hard.

Coyotes here cross with dogs and get huge. In 2006, I killed a 63 lb coyote, and a week later, my partner shot one that weighed 72 lbs...coy dogs with a Red Wolf blood strain. These large coyotes can run a deer to death.

I hope that you guys do not experience this in your state.

Our Fish and Game dept is begging people to start trapping, but their hands are tied by regulations that are so restrictive it is simply stupid to even consider trapping in this state...what a shame.

I have seen only one fawn in the last two years.

For each coyote you kill, you are saving perhaps a fifty deer over that coyote's life time. If you don't like my number, make up one of your own.

Nature takes care of it's self all right, coyotes pretty much wipe out just about everything...or don't you remember Darwin's "Survival of the Fittest"?'

Coyotes were introduced in my state by the Houndsmen. I wish that they had brought over Ant eaters from Africa to get rid of these fire ants, they would actually do some good, instead of an animal that depletes one of our State's greatest natural resources.

Is the state of "Hicksville" one of the states Obama mentioned in his 57 states comment?
 
Largest ranch I hunt has over 2,000 head of cattle, if you have Livestock then you will have Dead stock. The more cattle a rancher has takes the % of something dying up dramatically.

It's all part of mother nature, some cows die during birthing, some calves die during birthing, a bull breaks a leg in a fight, they get sick, they have a disease etc.........

Out of the 170+ ranches I hunt only a "Few" have ever said they lost a calf or a cow to Coyotes.

Coyotes are easy to place the blame on!

Just my .02 cents.
 
I find very little cattle damage and more scavenging when coyote numbers are in check. Coyotes even coexist literally amongst the cows in the same pasture.
Now when their numbers are up and the snow is deep like this winter it's different.
After I killed a pile of coyotes in the same spot a rancher said "I don't think we'll have a problem now with the few that are left." That reduction has still got ranchers in other counties talking because the hungry packs are the big threat.
 
flintrock, as a rancher myself i noticed the same things you did about it appears the cow and calf both died during the birthing process and the coyotes just did what coyotes do.
 
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