For You Beginners: A Guide to Voodoo (as applied to coyotes)

Originally Posted By: steve garrettkizmo I think you should write a book about predator hunting or at the very least become a foxpro pro staffer.

Thanks steve, I'll get on that right after I finish my turkey hunting book...
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these topics are why I return day after day. Kizmo, great post and I share your opinion on how newcomers are treated sometimes. Everyone has their own reasons for predator hunting as well as being a part of this forum. I hate to see new guys turned way from this awesome sport because they weren't greeted very kindly into this forum. we were all there once and while some may have read more of the information provided by the search feature than others, we all at one point knew nothing about predator hunting. Now after years of practice and trial and error we know just very slightly more than nothing and we should be happy to pass those little jewels down.
 
Thanks so much for all the information Kizmo and others have provided. I have only been coyote hunting a few years and found the learning curve to be large. Many people claim to be coyote hunters and won't reveal their secrets. After spending countless hours on this site it only takes a few minutes of talking to someone claiming to be a pro predator hunter to tell if they know what they are talking about. I remember watching a primos video with my buddy the night before i killed my first coyote. We learned a great deal that night and put that knowledge to work the very next day. I will never forget that moment or the information I gained from that successful hunt. I have so much to learn but each time I am able to read others successes and failures I gain a little more knowledge. I just recently posted a successful calling but not a successful killing of two coyotes from last week. I would have to say that my problem was light intensity when I switched on my gun light. The scan light which was on a lower brightness did not spook the coyotes but the incredible intensity of my gun light which happens to be red sent them running for the hills instantly. They came in from directly downwind but didn't seem to care about the scent as much as they cared about the poor screaming coyote pup. I have never been as excited about hunting anything as predators because it is a challenge and continues to be one. I'm still waiting to get the large elusive bobcat that I have been hunting for a few years now. You can rest assured I will post pics as soon as I get him. Knowledge is power and this website has a tremendous amount of it on here. Sometimes you have to decipher the good from the bad. Thanks again Kizmo and if you ever want to hunt Virginia and teach me some more come on up.
 
whitetail 436-thank you. I didn't see your thread, but I'm going to look it up. Very interesting observation that jibes with what I believe about light intensity vs. color. I was a little leery when I first started using my SR90, but the first night I took it out I was shining foxes on high (2200 lumens) at 30 yards just to see how they'd react. They didn't. We killed a coyote a couple of weeks ago in a partially mowed field of picked cotton at 50 yards from the truck with it on high. Two yotes had been popping up and down playing "Wack-A-Mole" with us in the cotton, initially at a couple of hundred yards. I had the beam on high the whole time trying to spot them, and the one we killed got in a lot closer than I like before her luck finally ran out. Sometimes I wonder if merely changing intensity isn't worse than keeping it on high the whole time, as long as you don't get the yote directly in the center of the beam until time to shoot.
 
One thing I have found interesting through using the search feature and reading a lot of old and VERY old threads on here is the amount of people who were going hot and heavy on a thread in 2005 or 2008, etc that no longer contribute or are in fact no longer members at all. It almost seems like a lengthy debate serves as the death knell for many.
 
Originally Posted By: jf1073One thing I have found interesting through using the search feature and reading a lot of old and VERY old threads on here is the amount of people who were going hot and heavy on a thread in 2005 or 2008, etc that no longer contribute or are in fact no longer members at all. It almost seems like a lengthy debate serves as the death knell for many.

Q: What's the difference between the average Predator Masters (PM) thread and Clint Eastwood's American Sniper?
A: The average PM thread has way more snipers.
 
Originally Posted By: Kizmo

Q: What's the difference between the average Predator Masters (PM) thread and Clint Eastwood's American Sniper?
A: The average PM thread has way more snipers.

True but funny all the same.
 
Originally Posted By: jf1073One thing I have found interesting through using the search feature and reading a lot of old and VERY old threads on here is the amount of people who were going hot and heavy on a thread in 2005 or 2008, etc that no longer contribute or are in fact no longer members at all. It almost seems like a lengthy debate serves as the death knell for many.

you could be correct. Not sure what that has to do with this excellent thread posted to help others succeed.

Great job Kizmo
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as evidenced by most of the posts. Thanks for taking the time.
 
I've been hunting for many years but I'll still probably die a novice coyote hunter. My dad taught me how to hunt when I was 12 years old, but the schooling for the outdoors started so much earlier. And everything he taught me about hunting applies to every other thing in life. He used the term "sportsman" interchangeably with the word - "hunter". While hunting, he taught me ethics, sharing, manners, and most of all how to be a sportsman. I learned respect for landowners, conservation officers, fellow hunters and respect for the animals we hunted. I remember the two of us giving up an afternoon during buck season to help an older guy drag out a buck. Back at his truck, we found out he was a decorated WWII vet who earned a Purple Heart at the Battle of the Bulge. I still think of that guy even though his days afield are probably long gone. As sportsmen, we need to lead by the very best example, and that includes the way we act in the field, towards others, including non-hunters, and those same rules apply to how we treat fellow hunters on a forum be they be experts or first time hunters.

Thanks Kizmo for a very articulate and an educated welcome to everyone who's here just wanting to learn more. My Pop would have referred to you as a true sportsman!

And thanks to my Pop who taught me well, and taught me that the way I should treat my family and friends is the way I should treat everyone else I cross paths with in life.

Kudos Kizmo! You made my day, and made me glad I chose to be a member of this forum.
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MR KIZMO. when you pick say a cotton tail distres call. do you let it run the 1 or 2 or what ever it is and pause or do you just let it keep on repeating it self or stop it at some point?
 
Curious as to what the term of a sniper is on here? Is it one who only jumps into a thread to argue or one who states their opinion and chooses not to argue after or one who jumps into to interject little more than a snide comment?

In 4 years on predator masters I have made 97 posts several of the reasons for this are stated right in the beginning of kizmo's post. The biggest reason is the way many on here treat others with differing views. To that point I would say for the second time in this thread, great post kizmo. The way you have responded has been polite and respectful.

I have to a degree, a slightly differing view on the conditioning of coyotes. It stems from, I would guess, The differing experiences we have had. That does not mean we could not have a civil explanation of each others views. Which we did. That seems to me to be in short supply on here and it is why, I for one, do not jump into many threads.

As stated before. If I were to give my best advise to a newcomer, it would be. Learn about the animal you want to hunt. It gives you the knowledge base to know where to start looking for them. Go out and get access to land to hunt(kizmo added) the right land. Then learn where and how to set up. Those three things will get you 70%-80% there.

Kizmo, I do have one other disagreement with you though. Where did you come up with the Irish setter being a notable exception to average dog intelligence? Of the 40 or so dogs I have bought trained and sold (all setters) the Irish would not be the choice I would pick out for a dog of above average intelligence. In fact I would guess if you asked a hundred pro trainers few if any would place them in that category. Of the 3 setters I currently own (English, Irish, and Gordon) the Irish is 3rd on that list.
 
nice post weaves,
your pops must of been a great role model, because i read a lot of good, honest words in your post. The True Sportsman is what I think we all should be. Just not in the hunting world but in everyday life, in everything we do as people. the world would be a much better place.
 
Of course I don't consider you a sniper, d0gs1ay3r. To me, that definition of sniper is a troll who only jumps into a thread to make a snide, non-contributory comment. They also usually don't engage in actual discussion. The PM admins have done a good job cleaning out the trolls around here, otherwise this thread would have already had 50 pages of their vitriol.

OTOH, I love it when someone points out to me my own biases. It's always easier to spot others' bias than your own. As a recent example, on another thread, brained pointed out to me that I don't howl during the day around here because it isn't "natural", yet I will readily play a jackrabbit to coyotes that have never heard one. He made me realize that maybe the reason howls don't work for me during the daytime is because I believe they don't work, thus I don't really pursue using them, thus I'm stuck in a self-defeating paradigm. I remember a long time ago I didn't turkey hunt at mid day because I didn't think it was worthwhile. When 11:00-12:00 hit, I'd tell myself that they weren't gobbling or responding, so I'd leave, thus reinforcing my perception that hunting in the mid day was worthless. One day I started to leave, but, instead, looked at my watch and made myself stay 10 more minutes, and in that 10 minutes called one up and killed it. That extra 10 minutes changed my life (at least in terms of turkey hunting), because now I'd rather hunt mid day than early morning if I had to choose.

The last Irish Setters I was around was 20+ years ago, and they were dumb as posts. I got the impression from their owners that the breed had basically been ruined by breeding them solely to be pretty. Maybe things have changed. I do know that many breeds in America are bred for looks, not function, which is why our GSD is of German, rather than American, stock.
 
bronco2, I let the caller run continuously. Byron South once pointed out that having the caller running gives the coyote something to look for besides you, and if Byron says it, it's good enough for me. When I've hunted with Tony, he's also let it run continuously. My current "all purpose" sequence is eastern cottontail, wailing woodpecker, bay bee cottontail, then coyote pup in distress #3. I run them each for about 5 minutes, and, if i'm in a coyote place, will throw in an interrogatory howl or female invitational howl at 5 and 10 minutes. If you're hunting bobcats or foxes, I don't think the howls hurt, but I don't think they help either, so I'd leave them out. If I were hunting out west, I'd replace eastern cottontail with lightning jack and woodpecker with waning jack and stick bay bee cottontail between them.
 
Originally Posted By: WeavesI've been hunting for many years but I'll still probably die a novice coyote hunter. My dad taught me how to hunt when I was 12 years old, but the schooling for the outdoors started so much earlier. And everything he taught me about hunting applies to every other thing in life. He used the term "sportsman" interchangeably with the word - "hunter". While hunting, he taught me ethics, sharing, manners, and most of all how to be a sportsman. I learned respect for landowners, conservation officers, fellow hunters and respect for the animals we hunted. I remember the two of us giving up an afternoon during buck season to help an older guy drag out a buck. Back at his truck, we found out he was a decorated WWII vet who earned a Purple Heart at the Battle of the Bulge. I still think of that guy even though his days afield are probably long gone. As sportsmen, we need tolead by the very best example, and that includes the way we act in the field, towards others, including non-hunters, and those same rules apply to how we treat fellow hunters on a forum be they be experts or first time hunters.

Thanks Kizmo for a very articulate and an educated welcome to everyone who's here just wanting to learn more. My Pop would have referred to you as a true sportsman!

And thanks to my Pop who taught me well, and taught me that the way I should treat my family and friends is the way I should treat everyone else I cross paths with in life.

Kudos Kizmo! You made my day, and made me glad I chose to be a member of this forum.
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Wow. Thank you for such an honor. That's probably the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.
 
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thanks you sir. no i hunt in va around home and that's it for me. just something i love to do and want to get better at. thank you very much for all your help sir.
 
It took me two days to get through this thread but it was worth it. I really appreciate the thought and time you put into the post, Kizmo. I also appreciate the thoughtful responses and differing points of view. Interesting how we assess/analyze observations differently. I thought for a couple of pages that this was going to be one of the most mature and honest threads I had ever read.... Like most things here, we just need to swallow the meat and spit out the bones. I do absolutely believe that coyotes differ in their habits and conditioning in different areas. The one thing I read here that is worth remembering is to never say "never" or "always" when it comes to coyotes. They will prove us wrong. Thanks again for the post, Kiz.
 
Thanks Kizmo and thanks also to the others who voiced differing opinions.

I am new to predator hunting, having had a false start a couple of years ago and failing to continue with it, mostly out of frustration at my utter lack of success. PM seems to have helped install a basic idea of where to begin, but that will be proven out over the next couple of months.

FWIW, while new to predator hunting I am not new to hunting other animals. My experience informs me, I think correctly, that animals can be "deconditioned" from natural behaviors and "learn" (i.e. be "educated") to avoid hunters, their decoys, calls, etc. I think the deconditioning is temporary and, for the most part, so is the "learning."

The easiest to describe and envision would be the progression of deer seasons and waterfowl seasons. It is impossible not to recognize a change in the behavior of deer, ducks and geese attributable to hunting pressure through a season.

But, with a few exceptions, each year the new season begins with the deer, ducks or geese only as wary as they were, and behaving the same as at the start of the season the prior year. A couple of notable exceptions would be older bucks and older geese. The "learning" seems to stick better with them.

Our deer seasons and our waterfowl seasons are broken up into segments here. I don't see any reversion to unpressured, normal, typical behavior between segments in deer, but I see some with with ducks and to a lesser degree with geese as well. But I'm not sure if what I am attributing to a reversion to normal, typical behavior with ducks or geese isn't more accurately largely or entirely attributable to new arrivals either.

Interestingly, in my experience a really good hunter can hunt more often and kill a heck of a lot more ducks, geese or deer without adding much hunting pressure compared to lazy, inexperienced or inept hunter. His presence is less obtrusive, he is more effective in less time, he leaves fewer deconditioned or "educated" animals, he gets busted a heck of a lot less often.

I suspect what the fellows from Utah are witnessing is a lot of either lazy, inexperienced or inept hunters deconditioning or "educating" coyotes.

A good hunter can succeed even with the most deconditioned or "educated" game though. His success ratio may drop and he will have to cross every T and dot every I to be earn his success. The two things I have learned for certain are that you if you take shortcuts your success WILL drop and your success rate from the couch is definitely going to suck.

JPK
 
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