Calling Tactics and Sounds?

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Q-Wagoner,
You are a good man and a good hunter, so I am sure that you have good reason for your "Never call downwind" statement. The terrain in which you hunt has likely taught you that calling downwind in YOUR area is a very big mistake. Scott Huber of South Dakota has developed pretty much same theory as you as far as wind direction. I have hunted with Scott in his area and it was easy to see why he picked his calling stands the way he did. A man has to learn to never say never, because otherwise he will one day see things that he never believed before. I had the privilege of calling coyotes for four days with the great Murray Burnham. Even Murray would call down-wind under certain circumstances. I know because I saw him do it. That is where I learned to call down-wind under certain conditions, and I have killed a lot of coyotes by doing it that way.
 
Q Waggoner, I think your missing out on a big point here. The coyote adapts where ever it goes. It changes and uses what is there. Here the animal is under the gun all the time. It's learned that the cover is it's security blanket.That heavy cover we have saves the animals life on a regular basis. I rarely see a coyote that isn't just a few jumps away from it.

If I closed my mind to all the possibilities then I would be missing out completely in some areas. By keeping an open mind I get away with quite a bit when calling. I use what is there just as the coyote does. I use that insecurity they have to my advantage when the situation calls for it.Absentee land owners is one of those occasions. I can't get permission to every piece of ground in an area. How else am I going to call that thicket I can't legally get into wihtout using my imagination or down wind techniques?

This thread is about calling predators in all of it's aspects. I'm learning from this thread just as everyone is learning from me.When you take a negative attitude into the field you lose.Jimmie
 
Below is a fairly common set up for me. It uses what is there and allows me too see the likely aproaches.W is the woods, f is the fencerow, c is the calling position.Wind is in my face from whatever quadrant.

w
w
w
wfffffffffffcfff
ww50 to 60 yds to call position
w
w
w

I like open fields on each side as far as possible. preferably the road is at the other end of this fencerow when possible or at lest a residence .I'm not asking the animals to go to far from the travel lane by getting this close.I may call as many as three or four such places while working my way into the area as much as two miles. I always work my way in quartering into the wind or straight into it.Jimmie
 
At a fur harvesters convention some years ago I ask a board of professional ADC men and fur hunters weather they thought a .17 rem. was a good gun to use for coyotes. From previous bad experiences with the .17 I got the answer I expected. Their was a chuckle from the panel and with every one smiling Craig O’Gorman finally spoke up after what seemed like an eternity and simply said “I know of no serious coyote hunters that hunt with a .17 Rem. The second part of my question was whether or not they called down wind or not. Again I knew the answer to the question and again I was politely laughed at and then was told, “I hunt coyotes for a living. I want to keep my job.” That pretty much summed it up. Among the participants were Craig O’Gorman, Major Boddicker, Keith Gregerson, John Graham and Gary Jepson. Sense that time I have talked to dozens of ADC men and many of the top tournament callers in west and the answer is always almost with out exception the same. Don’t call down wind for any reason. I was talking with Scott H. just last weekend about calling the wind and he told me about a debate he and Ed S. got into on one of the boards about whether to call with or against the wind. I see I don’t need to tell you about his views on the subject. What I like about talking with ADC men and other professional fur hunters is that they will tell you exactly what they think and will make no bones about it because they have long sense rounded that part of the learning curve and are extremely confident in what they say and don’t even so much as blink when they do.

It boils down to this. If you want to shoot at standing coyotes you better do it before he sees or smells you weather you are calling into the wind or not. By deliberately calling down wind you increase your chances of being smelled by about 100 times. It would be much easer to set your stands up so you have the wind to your face. You might be able to pick him up after he smells you once in a while but that is a big “might.”

Calling down wind means different things to different people. For instance I call in a “for lack of a better word?” downwinderly direction on rare occasions win I need to pull the coyotes out in the open for a shot but I never call directly down wind to where I think the coyotes are at and expect them to keep coming once he has smelled me.

Coyotes will always circle the caller. Weather it is at 600 yards or 6 yards. In my experience I believe a coyote knows where the caller is to within a few yards from as far away as a mile in the open country that I hunt. When the coyote hears the sound of the call he will head straight for it as if he is on a string until he gets to his own personal safety zone and then he will circle. I will honestly tell you that I have no idea where most of the coyotes will start to circle but I am confident that 85 to 90 % will do so well under 200 yards. I don’t know because if the conditions are right when the coyote hits the 300-yard line I am looking for the shot. My best guess and it is only a guess would be 40 to 60 yards depending on the terrain. Coyotes are greedy and will sometimes opt for an elevated view of the caller to save time but if I have learned any thing about coyotes in my calling career it would be that self-preservation is always at the top of their list. Any circumstance that might compromise a coyote’s well-being is usually avoided. Extreme hunger or territorial instincts may cloud their judgment at times but when push comes to shove they will look out for themselves.

Metaphorically speaking I am a “pot hunter.” I have a limited amount of ground to hunt in my area. So to make my fur hunting profitable I don’t take any chances when I pick my stands. Killing every coyote I call in is “like most peoples” my goal. I know from experience that when coyote’s wind me they leave and when they leave they leave a little smarter than they did when they came in. Having seasoned adult coyotes in my hunting area costs me money because as long as they are there, no younger coyotes will move in. If I can consistently kill off the alpha pairs in a given area there will be a consistent flow of dispersing young that will be competing for the same territories. I am not going to compromise my techniques and overall game plan by calling down wind. Doing that is unnecessary in 99% of the cases and can simply be avoided in the remaining 1 percent. You have to agree that far and away the greatest majority of predator hunters agree that when coyotes smell you they leave and you are just inviting a wreck when you call down wind. That is not a risk I am willing to take even if it may work out once in a while.

Jimmie I realize this thread is about “calling predators in all of it aspects.” I am just giving you mine in the terms of separating the wheat from the chaff. If calling down wind is a risk that you are willing to take because you have absolutely no other options then that is fine. It is your prerogative. In your situation I would call those areas when the wind is in your favor.

You may be right. I may be missing out on a big point and I may take a negative attitude into the field but I will beg to differ that I loose. I even have a few pictures and fur tickets of well over a thousand coyotes that I have taken over the past several years that will second the motion. Even oll Rich can vouch for a couple of them. Every thing I have said is as true as I know it and I am not trying to discredit any one and if you think that I have I am sorry. I don’t care how you or any one else calls I am just passing on a few lesions from the school of hard knocks.

Good hunting.

Q,
 
Qwaggoner, I apreciate the more positive post.It also had some lessons needed in such a discussion. I remember well the discussion between Scot and Ed. I don't doubt the skills of either man one bit.Both were very determined that they were absolutely right.I learned a great deal from both of these gentlemen. But I noticed even you admit to using "downwinderly" when nescescary. It's just another tool in our bags of tricks we use when we have too.I admit I would be one of the last people to advocate downwind tactics all the time.

What we are trying to do with this thread is to simply open all our bags of tricks for the begginners and experienced alike. Allowing them to relate their calling areas with something we say or show in a post.This way they can build on our knowledge to develope their own calling style and technique.Please jump in again and help out some more. Jimmie
 
Q-Wagoner,
You old dog you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif , here is a small portion of your very informative post (above)---It boils down to this. If you want to shoot at standing coyotes you better do it before he sees or smells you weather you are calling into the wind or not. By deliberately calling down wind you increase your chances of being smelled by about 100 times. It would be much easer to set your stands up so you have the wind to your face. You might be able to pick him up after he smells you once in a while but that is a big “might.”

Calling down wind means different things to different people. For instance I call in a “for lack of a better word?” downwinderly direction on rare occasions win I need to pull the coyotes out in the open for a shot but I never call directly down wind to where I think the coyotes are at and expect them to keep coming once he has smelled me.

Coyotes will always circle the caller.

Ok Q, ya got me with that there "downwinderly" statement. When I call down-wind in open country, that is exactly my plan, downwinderly. I am facing downwind and I can see the coyotes coming for a very long ways. I always have the scent cone in mind, and I try to shoot my coyotes before they get "directly" down-wind. Thanks for pointing that out, because I wasn't being clear enough as to what I meant by down-wind. Coyotes ALMOST always circle toward downwind side alright, which is why we get backdoor busted a lot while hunting the brush and can't see downwind. Hey Q, next time you speak with Scott H would you ask him about his theory on "downwinderly" calling back in the thick stuff? I know what it was the last time I spoke with him. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif You are giving us some good idea's Q, so don't let me scare you off just yet.
 
Q-Wagoner I have been in your state several times and from what I have seen it is as flat as my kitchen floor.Calling down wind with that terrain you will get winded.

In Tennessee the terrain is much differant that is why calling down wind works here.

I am not trying to change anyones mind it is what works for you in your terrain.
 
Fellows,I really like this interchange of info above. It shows that all of us have adapted our styles to match the terrain and behavior patterns of our quary where ever we find him. The diferent things we all do to outsmart this critter is astounding. While my ground is similar to what Terry hunts it is not the same. He has adapted diferent tactics to suit his needs while I have adapted to suit my needs. This is doing the begginer a lot of good and giving the more experienced something to think about.

My experience with Scott and Ed taught me to open my mind. Scott confirmed many things I had learned but Ed taught me not to be so rigid in my thinking. These fellows taught me to adapt my thinking and I thank them both for that. Shall we get on with what this thread is all about! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Jimmie
 
Sorry about the “downwinderly” comment. My pizza was burning and I flew threw the post. Since I invented the word I had better give a definition of it. Downwinderly as I meant it, means like in southerly or northerly direction, in other words it’s a general direction rather than an exact one.

I am not calling to coyotes that are “down wind” per say; I am calling to coyotes that are to the left or to the right of down wind and my goal is to shoot them before they get “down wind.” When people use the words “down wind” loosely the inexperienced caller thinks he should do just that. I was talking to a gun dealer in CO a few years ago about calling coyotes and he said that it was a waste of time because the coyotes would always smell him and leave. Come to find out he bought himself Eds’ predator calling kit and the instructions say to call down wind because that’s where the coyotes are going to come from any way, “supposedly” and that’s exactly what he did and not surprisingly the coyotes smelled him and split town.

I don’t know what Scott does in the “thick stuff” but I doubt that the rules change too much. “You have to get the shot before they smell you or you loose.” Two shooters is nice in these predicaments because of the usually much shorter time frame you have in which to shoot. I think that a coyote will circle when he is ready and there is no formula that dictates when that is. In thick cover you will probably never know when that is because of the lack of visibility. In my “limited” experiences of calling tight country I believe that coyotes circle down wind only after they are very close “depending on where they come from to begin with” because their cover is only a step or two away at any time. This situation gives them an added confidence they don’t have in open country.

Remember when I first coined the term “downwinderly” I also said it was on rare occasions. In my experience when you do get a coyote to break cover to circle down wind he is moving all the time because he feels vulnerable in the open and stopping the coyote for the shot is damn near impossible. It is like they see your sent stream like a finish line because once they cross it, it will tell them every thing they need to know.

As I am sure you know. When calling coyotes you need to try to make it as easy and convent for them as you can to respond. You don’t try and call them across highways you don’t “try” to call them from 2 miles away and you don’t try to draw them across large flats. A coyote living in open spaces is accustom to open spaces and is reluctant to approach a tree line no matter how sweet the sound. The same applies for timber coyotes. A coyote living in the thick stuff is not going to eagerly break cover and head out across the flats. That is generally speaking. I have seen it go both ways but the lions’ share of the time it is true especially when coyotes are pressured. In areas where they are not hunted they are much more aloof in their environment and have no quorums about responding under any circumstance. But finding a place that is not hunted this day and age is difficult in its self.

The whole idea about calling “down wind” is to make it convenient and more tempting for a coyote to expose himself for the shot. There is no doubt that you will call more coyotes if you call down wind for a couple of reasons. One being you make it inviting to the coyote to smell what you are and your call will carry down wind much further than it would into the wind. Remember I said you are likely to call more coyotes when you call down wind NOT kill more. I know that this is bss ackwards of Terries experience but that is the way I see it. I can also say I have never in my life called in a coyote with my stand 50 yards from my pick-up. I have never called Tennessee but one thing I know for sure is that when coyotes are down wind of you they are going to easly smell you 3 or 400 yards away. Choosing a stand and thin predicting exactly where the coyote is coming from and then predicting where the wind is going to take your sent is a HUGE leap of faith. I read somewhere that coyotes can pick up 2 or 3 parts per million with their olfactory senses “nose” so if they are coming in from directly down wind they will smell you long before you see them. I am not trying to tell you how to call but my advice is to call into the wind if all possible. The Nebraska you apparently seen is not really Nebraska. It is probably the ground from I-80 south, the part that Kansas didn’t even want. And don’t even come close to representing the country I hunt.

When I am calling coyotes the last thing I am going to do is set up in the middle of my calling territory and start blowing away on the call in all directions. That is foolish, stupid and just plane ignorant. I start as far down wind as I can of the area that I intend to call and then zig zag my way through it. By keeping my stands closer together and using my call directionally with a lower volume I will be constantly calling with in a self made buffer zone all but eliminating the chance of passing up a coyote and then having it respond from behind me. This is not fool proof as coyotes that are on the move to begin with can some times get behind you but this is the best method I have found to deal with the problem.

Q,
 
A lot of these guy's are wondering why we use certain sounds and when we use them. It's time to bring them into this discussion.

The bunny blues I use year around. It's a basic and easy to make sound. The only problem with it is in using the e-callers. i think the problem lies with the constant sound and repetition of the e-caller. With the mouth call the rythem can be broken and changed the entire time it's in use.

Bird distress, an alternative to the blues. It's a busy sound that attracts all predators equally well. All of them feed on small birds at one time or another.

Canine distress sounds work on the territorial instinct as much as they do the food search.At certain times of the year these sounds will be more useful than any.In mating season the male removes all competition from it's core area. This is mainly where we get all of these reports of domestic dog kills. Other canines are a danger to his pups, as far as he is concerned they all have to go whether its dogs or fox.These are the sounds I use to get the alpha pair most often .Fox distress and canine puppies are very useful tools.

There are a lot of ideas that go with this line fellows. Let's get them out and discuss them.Jimmie
 
Jimmie,
Like that story!! Good calling tactic, if I read it right, cover shots with calls??? My terrain is similar to what you have except we have all flat farm ground. Only thing else will be dug out ditches and levi's. On the rivers, I will have a large levi winding for miles. I guess this would be like one of your ridge tops?? On the inside will be fencelines, tree lines, small wood lots, old river beds, brush, and open areas. On the outside will be crops of cotton, soybeans, rice, and some corn. I can't get away with any of the downwind stuff as visibility is not far enough to get a long shot.

You guys are so good, no need to jump in!!! Just settin back and enjoying the ride. Saw another post on the Predator hunting page concerning downwind callin. Sent them a message to come over here! Hell, this information would make a good book!! LOL! There is nothing like experience no matter where it comes from or what part of the country. I hunt lots of different states and learn something all the time. One thing for sure, you can never have too much learning when it comes to yote'es!!

I believe more details on the one you just posted about calls and times to use them are great. How, when, and what to use other than the standard rabbit blues and bird calls. One example is the squirrel distress on my new foxpro. These little critters are everywhere on my terrain but never thought of giving it a try until now. Just something different than the normal but still a sound very common to the critters we are looking for. Keep it coming guys!!! Wish we could draw in more of the seasoned minds that I know are on this board too!
 
SteveM , there was another reason for that call being loud in that post besides covering the shot.The wind was doing 15 miles an hour that day, not one of the best for calling. In order to be heard at any distance I had to blow the lungs clean out of that bunny.Have you ever noticed that certain species of oak don't lose all the leaves until nearly spring? That alone can create problems with sound in my neck of the woods when thewind is giving it heck. The wind is also the reason we walked past that coyote and it didn't hear us. The wind can cover a multitude of sins as well as cause trouble /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Young squirrels and field rats sound very much alike. Both are fairly common sounds in the east. They both make an eeeek sound when frightened or injured.Don't use a lot of volume with either one though. With the e-caller use only enough volume that you can hear it at fifty yards no matter what the wind conditions. I mean just hear it clear. Too loud and they will know it's bogus.Same with mouth calls. Use only enough volume to be heard under the conditions that day. None of the critters we mimick have enough lung capacity to snuff a candle. A habit I have is to start soft , do that for five minutes or so, then increase the volume for a few calls before returning to soft calling.In windy conditions(12 to 15 mph) I will start out loud and soften it later.

Down wind calling is in itself an art form. Knowing when and how to use it comes with time and experience. Once you learn to read the land and aproach lanes then you can take it on with a bit of confidence. I don't believe that it is the best tactic for the beggining predator hunter.Use it correctly under the right circumstance and conditions ,and it is deadly. Use it wrong and your busted.The wind has to be quartering away from the cover you believe the animals to be in.It cannot be blowing straight down the edge of the cover.Jimmie
 
Jimmie I agree with you it takes a long to to learn how to hunt down wind and to do so you must know to lay of the land.I would not think it is best for a new hunter.

Rich I have been calling close to my truck for about 6 years.We had a killing frost about one week before my 1st hunt that year and I sprung my ankle the day before the hunt.Needless to say I could not walk far.That was also the time I started calling down wind.How long have you been hunting close to the truck?
 
My calling goes a bit diferent from Terry's and Rich's. I take the truck as close as can then get out and start the hike. I work an area much like Qwaggoner describes in one of his post's above.First set up will be about 800 yards from the truck then about the same distance apart there after as I work toward the bedding area. I'm sure this will change as populations get more dense but for now that's what it takes .

In calling I like to mimick nature as much as possible. The only creatures that are on the coyote's prey list that are loud would be fox and deer. Deer being the loudest in the mature animal.The human ear can pick up a doe bawl at quite a distance. Fox barks and distress at about half of the same distance. Neither of these animals fights what ever for any long period of time before resting or giving up. So keep the sounds short in length with long pauses between. It also helps to keep the coyote looking and moving slower. It has the area down in it's mind but not exactly, it knows where you are within a few yards.A looking coyote is a much easier target than a moving one. Jimmie
 
Terry,
I have been calling close to the truck for at least ten years now. I see no reason to walk way over thee when I can drive there so much easier. One of my favorite tricks is to drive up a hill, stopping before my truck reaches the top of said hill. A short walk to the top and I call the OTHER side of the hill. Works for me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Calling sounds? The sound of any small critter in distress will call predators. Here in western Iowa, it seems to me as though the HIGH pitched screams call more coyotes than the low pitched screams. Oh sure, I have called coyotes with jackrabbit screams around here and there has been not a single jackrabbit in this part of Iowa for many years. I still believe that the high pitched squeals call more of the smart old coyotes. Maybe it is because most of the little prey animals around here are cottontail rabbits, birds, mice and etc. Keeping the calling sounds "natural" to your area just makes good sense to me. I probably don't use the fawn distress enough around here, because I know that coyotes love to eat fawns. I just never did use the fawn distress that much. My new killer jr call makes some really nice high pitched sounds and I think that I will be using it a lot this fall. It has it's own reed protector, so I carry it in my pocket at all times. Being not any bigger than the average pocket knife, I don't even know it is there until I need it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I hear ya Jimmie! At 15 mph around here the dust would be so bad that you could not call for choking!!

I was scouting a new area last week. Drove down a field road to a ditch and parked my turck in some grown up weeds. Walked down the ditch about 300 yards and decided to call. About 10 min, this yote comes hopping out of the brush right in front of me. Like that not having to walk 5 miles thing!! I am with you guys!!
 
I agree with the higher pitches being most productive for coyote's Rich. That's probably the reason my favorite calls are the js pc3 and the Lohman dual tone. The dual tone has a whistle of sorts built in the side to give the call an extra squeal sound when left unplugged buy the fingers.I also own a sure shot call that has never called in a thing. It has a low pitched gravelly sound to it, sort of a cross between a jackrabbit and a deer bawl.

BTW I got a response to my new toy tonight when I opened it. It went something like " GEESH , I already have a headache". It just doesn't pay to play in the house sometimes :rolleyes: Jimmie
 
If I was an extremely lucky man who lived in a remote area that was absolutely LOADED with coyotes, there were no other folks coming in to wise em up and I could call the same spot only once a year------Wow!! I would only need one predator call and a good howler. Now if I could kill every single one of the coyotes that I called, then there would be no call shy coyotes.

Remember a couple or three posts back when I said that coyotes would come to ANY sound that resembled a small critter in distress? Guess what a squealing puppy is? A distressed little critter, that's what it is. Guess what sounds are used the least by most callers today. I would have to say howls and puppy squeals.

Now most of you already know that I am not lucky enough to live in one of those remote area's I mentioned, so I am betting that you have already guessed which sounds I use the most on coyotes these days. Howls and puppy sueals you say? Right again boys!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
And now with a couple of new toys to play with I don't think I'll worry too much about call shy dogs myself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Great fox distress out of that latest one Rich.

The canine sounds, wonderful magical sounds those are at times.I like them best from late december on well into the spring. Not a lot of the young of year rabbits ro rats left by that time.

Territory grabbing begins with the first lone female howl sometime in December.She will start in howling as soon as she gets up and continue well into the night or the first lover that comes along.Nice long drawn out medium to high pitch howl. Done about every five minutes the last time I heard one.No barks just the howl.She sure was a pretty little thing.

Fox sounds come into their own at about the same time and just get hotter as winter wears on.Fox distress or fox fights doesn't matter which one you use.Old dogs will come running with their tongue out looking for a fight. This sound is really good for that "oh crap" look coyote's are famous for.Jimmie
 
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