Anyone else using 17 WSM on yotes?
- Thread starter 17wsm 'yote toaste
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Eric_Mayer
Member
Here's a link to my thread on the subject (includes somewhat Graphic pictures):
First Bobcat and Coyote with the .17 WSM
Eric
First Bobcat and Coyote with the .17 WSM
Eric
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Eric_Mayer
Member
To the OP:
The 25 grain offering is showing back in stock at Cabelas.
Eric
The 25 grain offering is showing back in stock at Cabelas.
Eric
millerjq
Member
I honestly don't think real world results will do any good.. It's just like some guys have to have a lifted 3/4 Ton truck on 35s because it is "so much better" than a 4WD Ranger, S10, or Tacoma. When I have witnessed more of those huge trucks get stuck in the back woods of Missouri than the little trucks.
But they will argue even after the little Tacoma makes it out just fine that the truck is still to small... You need an 85 Chevy 4WD! As they are hooking the chains up to thiers to gets pulled out..
The same people argue a 243 isn't enough for a big buck. My father takes one every season with his 243, (at least since 2001 when I started going with him) and every season "those guys" tell him he needs a 30-06 or 260 remington or bigger.
My point is, if it gets the job done, why even worry about the nay sayers? We just smile, say "yeah, you're probably right" hop in the old S10 with the 243, and move along with our success. I am by no means bashing any person or caliber. It's just how it is. To each their own is how I see it.
But they will argue even after the little Tacoma makes it out just fine that the truck is still to small... You need an 85 Chevy 4WD! As they are hooking the chains up to thiers to gets pulled out..
The same people argue a 243 isn't enough for a big buck. My father takes one every season with his 243, (at least since 2001 when I started going with him) and every season "those guys" tell him he needs a 30-06 or 260 remington or bigger.
My point is, if it gets the job done, why even worry about the nay sayers? We just smile, say "yeah, you're probably right" hop in the old S10 with the 243, and move along with our success. I am by no means bashing any person or caliber. It's just how it is. To each their own is how I see it.
Furhunter
New member
I like how the pro side of this argument always states how well it works with the caveat of keeping the range short and good marksmanship with perfect shot placement. In a sport such as this that all happens very little.
I think its similar to elk hunting with a 243. Sure it's legal and it will work but is it truly the best tool for the job... Probably not, its like going to the field with one arm tied behind your back limiting your range and shots available to you. Same can be said for this 17WSM and I think that's where the basis of these arguments stem. The round, while impressive doesn't have what it takes in less than perfect situations which happen all the time. Those that have been doing this for a while can admit it and those that are trying to justify a purchase cannot.
I think its similar to elk hunting with a 243. Sure it's legal and it will work but is it truly the best tool for the job... Probably not, its like going to the field with one arm tied behind your back limiting your range and shots available to you. Same can be said for this 17WSM and I think that's where the basis of these arguments stem. The round, while impressive doesn't have what it takes in less than perfect situations which happen all the time. Those that have been doing this for a while can admit it and those that are trying to justify a purchase cannot.
Eric_Mayer
Member
Originally Posted By: FurhunterI like how the pro side of this argument always states how well it works with the caveat of keeping the range short and good marksmanship with perfect shot placement. In a sport such as this that all happens very little.
I think its similar to elk hunting with a 243. Sure it's legal and it will work but is it truly the best tool for the job... Probably not, its like going to the field with one arm tied behind your back limiting your range and shots available to you. Same can be said for this 17WSM and I think that's where the basis of these arguments stem. The round, while impressive doesn't have what it takes in less than perfect situations which happen all the time. Those that have been doing this for a while can admit it and those that are trying to justify a purchase cannot.
Proper shot placement goes with any small caliber cartridge.
If you are into spending time with a needle and fishing line, or losing animals, then it doesn't really matter what distances you shoot, or where you place your shots. Find some fur and pull the trigger, the bullet will do the rest...
With regards to your latter statement. I used to hear the same argument from folks like you about the .17 caliber centerfires. Now it seems like everyone is shooting one at predators. Why? Because if you sell fur, it is the "best tool for the job". However, if you shoot one and don't take into consideration the "range", "good marksmanship" and "perfect shot placement", even the .17 centerfires will fail due to operator error.
Before you crap on a round you've probably never even shot, give the guys who are shooting it a chance to try it out, before dismissing us as people who are just "trying to justify a purchase" (which is an ignorant statement, IMO).
Eric
I think its similar to elk hunting with a 243. Sure it's legal and it will work but is it truly the best tool for the job... Probably not, its like going to the field with one arm tied behind your back limiting your range and shots available to you. Same can be said for this 17WSM and I think that's where the basis of these arguments stem. The round, while impressive doesn't have what it takes in less than perfect situations which happen all the time. Those that have been doing this for a while can admit it and those that are trying to justify a purchase cannot.
Proper shot placement goes with any small caliber cartridge.
If you are into spending time with a needle and fishing line, or losing animals, then it doesn't really matter what distances you shoot, or where you place your shots. Find some fur and pull the trigger, the bullet will do the rest...
With regards to your latter statement. I used to hear the same argument from folks like you about the .17 caliber centerfires. Now it seems like everyone is shooting one at predators. Why? Because if you sell fur, it is the "best tool for the job". However, if you shoot one and don't take into consideration the "range", "good marksmanship" and "perfect shot placement", even the .17 centerfires will fail due to operator error.
Before you crap on a round you've probably never even shot, give the guys who are shooting it a chance to try it out, before dismissing us as people who are just "trying to justify a purchase" (which is an ignorant statement, IMO).
Eric
doggin coyotes
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: FurhunterYou know good and well what I meant by shot placement. Theres almost zero room for error when shooting something so small. It doesnt have the energy to make up for less than perfect situations. So you keep right on stomping your feet, I am sure someones is listening.
Go easy on him. He once wrote an article about it. Dontchaknow.
Like my new sigline?
Go easy on him. He once wrote an article about it. Dontchaknow.
Like my new sigline?
Eric_Mayer
Member
Originally Posted By: FurhunterYou know good and well what I meant by shot placement.
Let's not get testy, I know what you wrote, err, meant...
Eric
Let's not get testy, I know what you wrote, err, meant...
Eric
17wsm 'yote toaste
New member
Pros and Cons-
Thank you for the interesting perspectives. Dialog can bring new ideas to light. I unabashedly say that I like the round, without shame admit that I will continue to use the round to hunt coyotes (when my limited schedule allows) and won't let others dictate my choices to use a rimfire on varmints. But I have not discounted your concerns that it won't stop a coyote on the edge of decent range with poor shot placement. I will think about it when I take my next one.
My ethics require me to pass on shots that are questionable - whether I'm hunting big game, or anything else for that matter.
I will work on some "proof" with pictures to help people who are curious. And not to "justify a purchase" but to help the curmudgeons perhaps consider a new possibility.
I got to thinking about those guys, and came to conclude that I'm really thankful that not everyone is on the 17WSM bandwagon. It will mean that people who actually like the caliber will have more opportunity to buy the currently limited supply of ammo. So I say to those on on the fence "please don't buy the 17 WSM." Leave it for me and my friends to enjoy. Let us justify our purchase, on a very inexpensive rifle. Save your money! Only you can prevent cruelty to coyotes.
Furhunter's .243 comments about people who use it on larger game and discounting it. Thank goodness you don't write the regulations in our state. If you did your style of thinking would more than likely infringe many options for method of that take that I currently enjoy. The cruelty of bow hunting must be pretty hard to stomach...all those animals running off and dying.
I appreciate the discussion. Its interesting to me that the naysayers focus their energy on the round being used in less than ideal situations. What kind of ethics are they using out there with the notion that you can get a bigger caliber to help cover less than ideal shot placement? Can I kill a coyote with my .300 ultra mag, even if I hit it in the leg? It's a legal method of take - BTW.
I don't shoot at any animal if I'm not confident of the shot. Pretty simple to understand.
Either way- Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore still has some ammo in stock. Its the 25 grain variety http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/128949/c/ammunition for $16.99 a box.
Friends of the 17 WSM - enjoy!
Thank you for the interesting perspectives. Dialog can bring new ideas to light. I unabashedly say that I like the round, without shame admit that I will continue to use the round to hunt coyotes (when my limited schedule allows) and won't let others dictate my choices to use a rimfire on varmints. But I have not discounted your concerns that it won't stop a coyote on the edge of decent range with poor shot placement. I will think about it when I take my next one.
My ethics require me to pass on shots that are questionable - whether I'm hunting big game, or anything else for that matter.
I will work on some "proof" with pictures to help people who are curious. And not to "justify a purchase" but to help the curmudgeons perhaps consider a new possibility.
I got to thinking about those guys, and came to conclude that I'm really thankful that not everyone is on the 17WSM bandwagon. It will mean that people who actually like the caliber will have more opportunity to buy the currently limited supply of ammo. So I say to those on on the fence "please don't buy the 17 WSM." Leave it for me and my friends to enjoy. Let us justify our purchase, on a very inexpensive rifle. Save your money! Only you can prevent cruelty to coyotes.
Furhunter's .243 comments about people who use it on larger game and discounting it. Thank goodness you don't write the regulations in our state. If you did your style of thinking would more than likely infringe many options for method of that take that I currently enjoy. The cruelty of bow hunting must be pretty hard to stomach...all those animals running off and dying.
I appreciate the discussion. Its interesting to me that the naysayers focus their energy on the round being used in less than ideal situations. What kind of ethics are they using out there with the notion that you can get a bigger caliber to help cover less than ideal shot placement? Can I kill a coyote with my .300 ultra mag, even if I hit it in the leg? It's a legal method of take - BTW.
I don't shoot at any animal if I'm not confident of the shot. Pretty simple to understand.
Either way- Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore still has some ammo in stock. Its the 25 grain variety http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/128949/c/ammunition for $16.99 a box.
Friends of the 17 WSM - enjoy!
millerjq
Member
Just my thoughts:
I agree that with some of these less powerful rounds proper shot placement is cruitial. (shouldn't you make a good shot anyway?) Along with the limited range factor. If you try to take a coyote at 200 yards with a 22LR or weaker 17 cal, you will most likely just cause the critter pain and suffereing and never find him. That being said, people choosing to hunt with a smaller caliber should know this, and know they are limited to the "perfect hunt." Very little wind, a still shot of at least a couple seconds to be dead on, and less than 100-150 yards, and SHOULD NOT hunt outside of these limiting factors. It may not be the best tool for the job, (we use an old 440 piston as a door stop) but it will work. In the right conditions. If this is something the hunter is willing to accept, then have at it.
In the areas we hunt in MO for coyotes, our range is between 50-150 yards. 150 yards being very rare. My father, brothers and I drop them all the time with a marlin model 60 22LR. Sometimes a 12 guage. My brother killed one with a 20 guage slug. I even used a 30-30 once. All killed them very quickly. But I would think a 17WSM would work great in the conditions we hunt in. (In theory, as I have not shot one with a 17 WSM, and don't plan to.) Being in Utah now, where shot distance is a lot father on a regular basis, I would not recommend a 17WSM. A .223 or 22-250 would be my choice. Mine being a .223 as the rifle and ammo is cheaper, and I want to be able to hunt here in Utah as well as in Missouri. And if anyone is using a thread off here to justify a purchase, you should probably go watch The Expendables or The A Team. Then you can justify lots of new guns... Check the info, and do your research. (Meaning facts, not opinions off a forum.)
I agree that with some of these less powerful rounds proper shot placement is cruitial. (shouldn't you make a good shot anyway?) Along with the limited range factor. If you try to take a coyote at 200 yards with a 22LR or weaker 17 cal, you will most likely just cause the critter pain and suffereing and never find him. That being said, people choosing to hunt with a smaller caliber should know this, and know they are limited to the "perfect hunt." Very little wind, a still shot of at least a couple seconds to be dead on, and less than 100-150 yards, and SHOULD NOT hunt outside of these limiting factors. It may not be the best tool for the job, (we use an old 440 piston as a door stop) but it will work. In the right conditions. If this is something the hunter is willing to accept, then have at it.
In the areas we hunt in MO for coyotes, our range is between 50-150 yards. 150 yards being very rare. My father, brothers and I drop them all the time with a marlin model 60 22LR. Sometimes a 12 guage. My brother killed one with a 20 guage slug. I even used a 30-30 once. All killed them very quickly. But I would think a 17WSM would work great in the conditions we hunt in. (In theory, as I have not shot one with a 17 WSM, and don't plan to.) Being in Utah now, where shot distance is a lot father on a regular basis, I would not recommend a 17WSM. A .223 or 22-250 would be my choice. Mine being a .223 as the rifle and ammo is cheaper, and I want to be able to hunt here in Utah as well as in Missouri. And if anyone is using a thread off here to justify a purchase, you should probably go watch The Expendables or The A Team. Then you can justify lots of new guns... Check the info, and do your research. (Meaning facts, not opinions off a forum.)
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Furhunter
New member
Originally Posted By: 17wsm 'yote toaste
My ethics require me to pass on shots that are questionable - whether I'm hunting big game, or anything else for that matter.
Well aint that good of ya. How many people out there have the same conviction when presented with a marginal shot...... very freakin few thats how many!
I never discounted the 243. As an example, I just said it may not be the best tool for the job. Never said it should be illegal and I never said anything about bow hunting... to which I dont have a problem with. Your trying like [beeep] to paint me as something I'm not. I dont mind at all discussing it but please stick to the topic at hand.
Originally Posted By: 17wsm 'yote toaste What kind of ethics are they using out there with the notion that you can get a bigger caliber to help cover less than ideal shot placement? Can I kill a coyote with my .300 ultra mag, even if I hit it in the leg? It's a legal methodof take - BTW.
Good ethics, I can at least take a front quartering shot thru a front shoulder into the vitals with a 223.... ohh and I could do it at 150 yards which you could never do with the 17WSM with any consistency. Maybe we should go hunting together, I could shoot all the ones you have to pass on (because your not willing to bring enough gun) and have a pretty good day doing it!
If you had enough gun your ethics would allow you to take more shots and probably put a few more critters in the truck.
My ethics require me to pass on shots that are questionable - whether I'm hunting big game, or anything else for that matter.
Well aint that good of ya. How many people out there have the same conviction when presented with a marginal shot...... very freakin few thats how many!
I never discounted the 243. As an example, I just said it may not be the best tool for the job. Never said it should be illegal and I never said anything about bow hunting... to which I dont have a problem with. Your trying like [beeep] to paint me as something I'm not. I dont mind at all discussing it but please stick to the topic at hand.
Originally Posted By: 17wsm 'yote toaste What kind of ethics are they using out there with the notion that you can get a bigger caliber to help cover less than ideal shot placement? Can I kill a coyote with my .300 ultra mag, even if I hit it in the leg? It's a legal methodof take - BTW.
Good ethics, I can at least take a front quartering shot thru a front shoulder into the vitals with a 223.... ohh and I could do it at 150 yards which you could never do with the 17WSM with any consistency. Maybe we should go hunting together, I could shoot all the ones you have to pass on (because your not willing to bring enough gun) and have a pretty good day doing it!
If you had enough gun your ethics would allow you to take more shots and probably put a few more critters in the truck.
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17wsm 'yote toaste
New member
Furhunter-
I'm glad you have depth of character. And you're able to see tools for their usefulness.
Undoubtedly you would would teach me a lot about predator hunting. I wouldn't even mind if you clean up the coyotes that out of range of my 17 WSM.
BTW I didn't say that I don't have other tools with me when hunting.
You'd have to be crazy to see a trend in your first couple of stands of seeing coyotes hanging out of range, and not switch to something that allows you to try and harvest them.
I usually have several alternatives with me, including a .223, a .243 and a 12 gauge.
However- It is pretty cool to shoot a coyote with a 17 WSM, and the challenge of it makes it a nice accomplishment. I've gotten 2 so far with mine, but I've only been out in the field twice this season for coyotes.
I'll see what happens during my next coyote hunt. If need be I'll gun up. And I hope to bring some pictures of the adventure.
I'm glad you have depth of character. And you're able to see tools for their usefulness.
Undoubtedly you would would teach me a lot about predator hunting. I wouldn't even mind if you clean up the coyotes that out of range of my 17 WSM.
BTW I didn't say that I don't have other tools with me when hunting.
You'd have to be crazy to see a trend in your first couple of stands of seeing coyotes hanging out of range, and not switch to something that allows you to try and harvest them.
I usually have several alternatives with me, including a .223, a .243 and a 12 gauge.
However- It is pretty cool to shoot a coyote with a 17 WSM, and the challenge of it makes it a nice accomplishment. I've gotten 2 so far with mine, but I've only been out in the field twice this season for coyotes.
I'll see what happens during my next coyote hunt. If need be I'll gun up. And I hope to bring some pictures of the adventure.
17wsm 'yote toaste
New member
Anyone out there doing some URBAN hunting with a rimfire? Especially a 17 WSM?
I see plenty of them around the Denver suburbs.
I'm always trying to figure out how to get at them. So far too many obstacles/restrictions preventing conventional ways of hunting.
I see plenty of them around the Denver suburbs.
I'm always trying to figure out how to get at them. So far too many obstacles/restrictions preventing conventional ways of hunting.
Smokeless
New member
Is the discussion really needed? What is special about the 17wsm? It is only a vessel to supply velocity to 20 and 25gr bullets. The 17 Hornet, in its various forms, is much more in velocity and is still marginal for coyotes. Any rimfire 17 is to light for coyotes. Center fire 17's are much better because of bullet choices. I am sure that the 17wsm is a fine small varmint round and would serve well for close called cats. Just not ethical for coyotes. IMO
With all the anti's out there just looking for places to shut us down, we have knuckle heads who still insist that the 17 rimfires are coyote capable. shees.
With all the anti's out there just looking for places to shut us down, we have knuckle heads who still insist that the 17 rimfires are coyote capable. shees.
Tim Neitzke
New member
I've been keeping up on this whole thread, good read.
Here is my take....
I enjoy new guns and rounds and field testing them even more. I love the 17HMR for small game and varmints, I've even shot a few fox and 1 coyote with it. It is not a pred round , however. The 17WSM is an interesting newcomer, the Bmag is not. If a guy needs a rimfire for night hunting preds, it would seem like an ok choice,but I've not gotten to try it myself. Until their is a reasonable rifle (good fit and finish) made,I won't know. As for daytime hunting, if centerfire is legal, I see no reason to hunt coyotes with a rimfire.
I've done some crazy off the wall things to prove a point when it comes to killing critters. I've had plenty of good times and a few bad. I could kill a 99 coyotes and lose 1 that would make 100. The lost ,wounded, got away for whatever reason, is the one that always haunts me.
If you are buying a predator rifle,esp your first, get something big enough . What ever you use, have fun and shoot straight.
Way to many people got burned on the 17HMR, being sold as a coyote killer when it was born. I'd rather not see this happen again.....
What ever you use, have fun and shoot straight.
Here is my take....
I enjoy new guns and rounds and field testing them even more. I love the 17HMR for small game and varmints, I've even shot a few fox and 1 coyote with it. It is not a pred round , however. The 17WSM is an interesting newcomer, the Bmag is not. If a guy needs a rimfire for night hunting preds, it would seem like an ok choice,but I've not gotten to try it myself. Until their is a reasonable rifle (good fit and finish) made,I won't know. As for daytime hunting, if centerfire is legal, I see no reason to hunt coyotes with a rimfire.
I've done some crazy off the wall things to prove a point when it comes to killing critters. I've had plenty of good times and a few bad. I could kill a 99 coyotes and lose 1 that would make 100. The lost ,wounded, got away for whatever reason, is the one that always haunts me.
If you are buying a predator rifle,esp your first, get something big enough . What ever you use, have fun and shoot straight.
Way to many people got burned on the 17HMR, being sold as a coyote killer when it was born. I'd rather not see this happen again.....
What ever you use, have fun and shoot straight.
