85gr Partitions on deer?

I've seen a lot of deer killed around here with small calibers 204, 222, 223, 22-250 and the like. I'm not condoning this however I've been out with landowners countless times and they often have one gun they keep in the truck and use it for everything from skunks to big muleys. Most of the time the deer dropped right where he stood and occasionally went maybe 50 yards and tipped over dead. Yes I know some of these calibers are not legal but you try and tell that to somebody who owns their own land and depends on it to make a living. Also anybody from these parts can tell you that the 22mag is a popular deer caliber on the reservations granted we are talking very close range but still.

Personally my go to deer rifle is a 270 win with 130gr SST. It in my opinion is about as good of a deer caliber as there is. I'll admit I'm partial to the 270 mostly because it's the first rifle I bought when I turned 18 and hasn't let me down yet. Now my wife's deer rifle is a 243 win using 95gr SST and I can proudly say that every deer she has ever shot has dropped dead on the spot. I would attribute that to a fine deer caliber and her being an especially good shot I'm not to proud to admit that she is a better shot than me most of the time. Above all else it really comes down to shot placement and proper bullet selection. The partition is a fine game bullet and 85 grains is plenty to take a deer down.
 
Have no fear about the 85 gr. Nosler in the .243. I started using the 'old' Nosler Zipedo many moons ago. As the Zepidos are no longer made I would use the Partition without any doubt.
 
It amazes me how often this subject comes up. The .243 will kill deer just fine, as will most other calibers. It is the shooter that makes the difference.

I have killed over 100 white-tailed deer with a 6 mm and Hornady 100-grain bullets at 3000 fps. I have killed them from real close to almost 400 yards. The bullet performed well and I always had a blood trail. The Partition is a fine bullet and will do the job.

That being said, I do not understand the obsession with using 85-grain bullets when 100-grainers are available. The 85-grain is not much flatter shooting-especially at distance-and the 100 grain maintains its ballistics much better. The 6mm is a relatively light caliber anyway, so why not take advantage of the best bullet available?

I like my 6mm and it worked very well culling deer, BUT I will grab my .308 or 7 mag usually for a regular hunt. There is no replacement for displacement.
 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Bullet and shot placement has a lot to do with it. Caliber size just doesn't seem to matter

Read this carefully, then read it again. Nothing more true has been said in the entire thread.

To expand... With good shots, ANY bullet will work (you can almsot take off the first two words of above quote). Controlled expansion, bonded, monalithic etc only helps on bad shots & harsh angles when more penetration is needed. They can be a good failsafe but again, not needed. In general, more fragile bullets that leave a bigger wound channel stops movement faster. Both from more tissue damage & the likleyhood some of the fragments (from bone or bullet) will strike the CNS.

 
Coleridge, if that is so, then why don't the states allow the use of 22 LR, 17 HMR, etc., for deer hunting? And why do the African concessions require a minimum caliber for Buff, etc?

We both know the answer to the above question...

I am sorry, sir, but you are woefully wrong, as is the originator of the post.

I will say this and then leave the thread to the rest of you: KILLING is not the point; it is HUMANE killing and RETRIEVAL OF GAME, and bigger calibers just typically do that better, all other things being equal.
 

Doubless,

I think the subject of the original post has to do with deer and what works well for that species, specifically the 243 and Nosler Partitions. The subject expanded to include thoughts about different bullets and calibers, but the subject remained "deer." That subject is what we all are talking about. We can start a new subject if you like pertaining to African game. Most everyone knows that African game (which is a different subject), even plains game, are tougher to put down than American game. Same goes for larger American species such as bear, moose etc.

As well, I think it is understood by most everyone that we are talking about centerfire calibers and not rimfire, though I did make a statement that the rimfire has accounted for numerous deer. Ethical? Well, it's not for me, but that's yet another subject.

So, to answer your questions, centerfires and rimfires are not in the same league, nor are deer and African species in the same league. We need to keep subjects in context and perspective.

 
I was referring to standard centerfire rifles. I guess I should have been more specific. However... Many states do not restrict 22LR on deer (NC being one of them). Matter of fact a 22LR bullet will penetrate plenty far enough to kill deer. On broadside shots it will generally lodge in the off skin. I've never been to Africa (again didn't realize we were bringing thick skinned game in the mix) but I've killed more than my share of deer with everything from the 17hmr (yes including 22LR) to a 54 caliber mzldr (minus most the big bore rifles found in dangerous game hunts). I'm not recommending rimfires or or sub 22 cal anything but I can with great experience tell you a 243Win will kill deer just as quick & human as a 300 Rum.

Lots of states don't allow hunting with suppressors... Wonder if that's because with their use they somehow don't kill deer sufficiently (maybe you really do need a big bullet with a big boom to put down a deer humanly)?
 
Well let's try this...

Let's take good shots off the table. Let's talk marginal shots, or even bad shots. You know the kind that novice hunters make. How about the times that I've seen bullets fail, or hit bone and turn almost 90 degrees. Bad things even happen to experienced hunters and good shots. Did you forget to allow enough for the cross wind? Those that think that the .243 is the great/best deer caliber ever, are just wrong. It's only a matter of time before they find out the hard way.

P.S. The elk video is stupid, so much could have gone wrong there. This long range crap is getting out of hand.
 
I guess I'm different. I don't go in preperation for bad shots. I make my preparation BEFORE the shot (try this you won't have as many bad ones).

But yeah A bad shot is a bad shot and a magnum can help SOME. For most it hurts more than helps though... Lots of guys that (not all but lots) shot the big magnums are bad shots because they never shoot. Big guns are expensive to shoot, painful to shoot, and burn barrels quick. Yet most wouldn't blink at a chance to shoot at a trophy buck with their "bdc" reticle or caculated turret at ranges they have never shot or confirmed...

I shot a 7mag for many years (before i learned what it really takes to kill a deer). I killed a pile of deer with it, but also lost a few with it as well. Even shot a 300RUM for a while (they will lose deer with bad shots too). As I got more "into" rifles I shot deer with smaller and smaller guns. Killing several deer with all of them. Trust me when I say firepower is no substitute for accuracy.

Here in NC we get unlimited (doe) tags and have a target rich environment to go with them. I like to hunt & shoot (only missed 5 days of deer season from Oct 26-Jan 1 last year), & i likely kill more deer in a year than many guys do in a decade. Im not guessing or going off hear-say, nor what I think about something I've never used, have read in magazines, or ever brilliant authors on the net.


Guys always talk about how prestigious it is to kill deer with a bow. However, there is a h€ll of a lot more chance something going to go wrong with a bow v/s a rifle. Also In leathal terms of "power", the 243 is thor compared to an arrow. If you think a bow kills humanely, you'll find the 243 more than adequate. Not that a bow doesn't work well, the 243 is just MUCH better.

I'm not saying a 243win is the best out there for deer. But I sure wouldn't feel under gunned holding a good shooting 243 in my hands and the deer of a lifetime in front of me.






 

Originally Posted By: ninehorses The elk video is stupid, so much could have gone wrong there. This long range crap is getting out of hand.

I may have to agree with you a bit there in a broad sense, but personally I wouldn't go as far as to say it's stupid. No one can argue with the shot and the effectiveness of the .243 on that particular elk. Personally I would use a larger caliber, indeed I generally use larger ones most of the time and tend to go heavy rather than light, but hey, that's me and what I'm comfortable with. I'm more of an Elmer Keith type. The people doing the elk shooting apparently are pretty skilled. Not everyone is.

I view the .243 elk video as an example of how effective the cartridge "can" be, and leave the what-ifs to others to decide for themselves.

If we set standards that larger is better, then perhaps we should not make light of those people who use .300 Win. Mags. for deer, yet I see those guys being mocked all the time. I understand some of the mocking too, since a lot of those guys think "hey, I have a 300 Mag, I am invincible." The good news is that the 300 mag is a great cartridge, capable of delivering a lot of energy down range. A skilled shooter can do wonders with such a cartridge. Granted, it's not needed for deer since a smaller caliber will work just fine. But hey, different strokes for different folks.

Like Coleridge, I'm not implying the .243 is a superior deer cartridge to anything else. But I am saying it is more than adequate for a good portion of deer hunting, and that is all.

The whole point of the general discussion in this thread is whether or not the .243 is adequate for deer. One poster indicated it isn't and that has led to others giving their experiences, overwhelmingly that it is. Staying within that context I will have to say "yes, it is adequate."

I have been ridiculed on these forums for using this for wild hogs, a .444 Marlin. The poster's remarks indicated it's overkill to him and suggested a lighter caliber be used.






Others have been ridiculed for using this for coyotes, a 17 Remington, people talking about the ethics of clean kills, not wounding etc.






I will say that I love both cartridges. I have taken wild hogs easy with the .444, and the .17 Remington continues to amaze me.
I have dropped my last three coyotes with that cartridge and it was as if they were pole axed, dropped instantly and didn't take
a step, that from a tiny and fast little 25 gr bullet.

Here is my first .243 deer, a Ruger #1 and 95 gr. Partition. Man, I sure was ugly back in 1983, but I grew out if it. LOL.






The whole reason for saying all this, in a nutshell is this: "Whatever floats your boat may not float mine and vice versa."


 
Love how easy it is for a couple guys to tell someone else how wrong their experience and opinion is. The .243 isn't my first choice, but about three dozen deer can't all be wrong. While I usually use other larger cartridges, deer hunting with the .243 doesn't concern me in the least.
 
I have killed and seen killed a lot of deer with the 95g Partition with 43g of IMR 4350 out of 243's, this load massacres deer way out there.

Have seen equally as many deer killed with a 100g Hornady with 42.3g of imr or h 4350 and win primer.

My 7 mags and 30/06's never dropped deer better than these two loads above. We shot some 200+ lb whitetails in Nebraska and Kansas, two at ranges of a tad over 300 yards with neither traveling more than 10'.
 
Love how some people won't listen to a man that has had his hands on thousands of deer over 40 years. Delt with hundreds of hunters, and seen the effects of just about every caliber.
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Originally Posted By: ninehorsesLove how some people won't listen to a man that has had his hands on thousands of deer over 40 years. Delt with hundreds of hunters, and seen the effects of just about every caliber.
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Or how one man won't listen to the rest of the membership here who know how to handle their particular rifles?

Originally Posted By: ninehorses Those that think that the .243 is the great/best deer caliber ever, are just wrong.

I must have missed that post.
 
Oh how I wish everyone was like you, never miss, never make a bad shot. Oh wait, everybody is like that, until it happens. Sounds like the typical deer hunter to me.
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Actually, I'm not a deer hunter. But I do know how to shoot my rifles. Every one of them. Don't assume that everyone on here is a backwoods lead-slinger and doesn't know how to handle their weapon of choice. Sometimes making assumptions about the talents (or identities) of your readers is a bad choice on an internet board and makes your statements and accusations comical to some .....

It has been said MULTIPLE times in this thread that the bullet in question is adequate if used PROPERLY. That was the question.
 
I'm just pulling you .243 guy's chain a little. If you go back to my first post you will see that I kill deer with small calibers, and have wounded and lost my fair share of deer. I actually have to go to work now, as it's too hot in here!
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Didn't sound like chain pulling ... sounded more like sarcasm. But whatever. Different opinions are not necessarily a bad thing.
 
Originally Posted By: ninehorsesI'm just pulling you .243 guy's chain a little. If you go back to my first post you will see that I kill deer with small calibers, and have wounded and lost my fair share of deer. I actually have to go to work now, as it's too hot in here!
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The difference here is I kill deer with small rifles and have NOT wounded or lost ANY deer with them. See how our experiences shapes our opinions. So a logical conclusion might beeee?
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