85gr Partitions on deer?

Guys, I will admit I am hard headed, but I am not above being proven wrong. I just know that based on others I have been around when they hunted with their .243s, quite a few of them griped about the small blood trails and having a hard time finding the animals IF there was no bone hit. Granted: you hit a rib and the secondary projectiles will make an exit hole almost an inch in diameter. But hitting a rib is luck; there is at least the same chance you WON'T hit bone as you will. And to me, shooting deer in the shoulders destroys meat, as it throws bone fragments through the shoulder meat that have to be picked out and/or cut around.

And as far as the post above that said the .243 was not designed for varmints, I beg to differ. Like a lot of very successful commercial rounds, it began its life as a wildcat, used for varmints and with light bullets. Research the history of the .243. And the reason the 6MM lags in popularity is beyond me. It is a better caliber, both in accuracy and power.

Finally, it all depends on shooter ability, as it does with any round. But there are a whole lot of deer lost each year to the .243 because some folks don't understand you don't take 80-grain hollow point rounds to the woods for whitetails (I know: a friend of mine lost three deer one opening weekend because he did exactly that), and a lot of deer are lost because Dad hands Junior a .243, thinking it is plenty of rifle, and Junior promptly puts the bullet in the wrong place. I have seen that as well.

All I ever said is that there were better calibers suited for the task, and the OP has one. THAT is a proven fact. Why he would choose the smaller caliber and factor in less room for error is something I don't understand. But maybe he is recoil shy; thankfully, I am not. All I know after deer hunting for almost 50 years is that often the perfect shot is not available, and invariably it isn't there when the trophy of a lifetime shows up. I would rather have a bit more insurance when that happens.

 
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I wouldn't say you are hardheaded, but I would say you are making an argument that won't hold water.

ANY caliber is wrong if the shot is out of place. ANY caliber.

Your own words:

"But there are a whole lot of deer lost each year to the .243 because some folks don't understand you don't take 80-grain hollow point rounds to the woods for whitetails (I know: a friend of mine lost three deer one opening weekend because he did exactly that), and a lot of deer are lost because Dad hands Junior a .243, thinking it is plenty of rifle, and Junior promptly puts the bullet in the wrong place. I have seen that as well."

NO caliber will make up for stupidity. None of them.

I'll end my input by asking you this: What is your personal experience (not hearsay) with the puny little .243 on deer? I'll be more than glad to listen to your personal horror stories about all of the game animals it has cost you over your 50 years ......
 
The 6mm started life with the wrong twist for bullets people wanted to shoot. They would not stabilize a 100 bullet and it could never over come that stigma. WHY anyone wants to shoot a 100 gr. in a 243 is beyond me but that's a different rant. When history is written about " the best deer gun" the 243 will be on top above the 30/30 and 3006. Just facts. As far as recoil there no less or more than any other caliber. ALL BULLETS OF A GIVEN WAIGHT AND GIVEN SPEED WILL RECOIL THE SAME. Regardless of how big around it is. A 25 06 shooting a 100 gr bullet at 2800 fps recoils the SAME as a 243 shooting a 100 gr. bullet going 2800 fps. If you could do it a 204 using a 100 gr bullet going 2800 fps recoils the same as a 458 would using a 100 gr bullet going 2800 fps.
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Hidalgo, my personal experience is limited to being in hunting camp with those that shot their deer with .243s, and being the designated "processor", who got to look at both internal damage and exit wounds.

I bought a .270 in about 1975, and that, up until about 1998, was my go-to gun for everything. I bought a 7 RM after killing a 5 X 5 elk with the .270, but the bullet did not exit.

I have never hunted with a .243; my sole experience hunting with a .244" diameter projectile extends to four hogs I shot with a 6 X 45 AR last March. But I head shot those hogs at less than 50 yards. I will not take a head shot on a deer. I did that once years ago with a 150 BT out of an '06, and I don't ever want to see that carnage again. I shoot ribs, and head shoot hogs. THAT is probably part of the reason I am against the smaller calibers. IF you get nothing but tissue the exit wounds are too small for adequate blood trail, in my experience helping others trail wounded deer. Lung shot deer are dead on their feet, but depending on how much air they have in the bloodstream, they may run 100 yards or more. A fine sprinkling of blood because of too small an exit hole is asking for trouble at a minimum, if not loss of the animal.

We ask a whole lot of a pretty small projectile, generally speaking... I hunted with a man in the late 70s who shot a South Texas buck with a Nosler Partition 130 out of his .270. The bullet went in just behind the shoulder, inexplicably turned sideways, progressed through the paunch and stopped in the off side ham. The ONLY reason that deer was even found was that it took every foot-lb. of energy the bullet was packing and dropped on the spot, as I see it. Why that Partition acted like that is beyond me.

I had a 150-grain Speer GS turn sideways after hitting a hill country doe just behind the shoulder, and low. Very shallow entry wound and no exit, obviously. I found the deer because of internal trauma: the entire body cavity looked like she ate a hand grenade, but she ran over 100 yards. I still don't know why that bullet did that, because there was no brush between me and her. It just did something odd. And that can happen with any bullet. Even the .243s...

I am just different, I guess. And to me, with everything else being the same, including a good shot, a larger bullet just leaves less to happenstance. To me, deer are one of the most majestic animals on earth. They deserve quick dispatch and quick recovery. I hate it when I lose one, because it is a waste.
 
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The .243 is MORE than adequate for ANY whitetail walking in North America, much less for a Texas whitetail. This thread got ridiculous sometime back and has only increased in stupidity since.



Chupa
 
Originally Posted By: Doubless And to me, with everything else being the same, including a good shot, a larger bullet just leaves less to happenstance. To me, deer are one of the most majestic animals on earth. They deserve quick dispatch and quick recovery. I hate it when I lose one, because it is a waste.

NOW you said something that we agree on! Larger bullets are ALWAYS more lethal when the placement is good. But DEAD is DEAD. And I highly doubt that you'll find anyone here that will disagree with your opinion about quick kills and humane ethics. My argument is that you can do that with the .243 ... It happens every day.
 
Funny...

For years I used to have to weigh and age somewhere around 100-125 deer each season. I would say 30% were hit in the wrong place. I would hang around the hunting camps, and watch deer quartered up while drinking a free cup of coffee. I also would go help find wounded deer. I wrangled around 50 hunters. So I have a pretty good idea what works for deer.

I have a 6MM that killed 10 deer one year, all one shot kills, all over two hundred yards. I've killed several with a .223, and even a 25-20.

Would I suggest a .243 to the average deer hunter? NO WAY! Bring a bigger gun please! The first time something goes a little wrong with a .243 you will lose your deer. Shoot one in the rain and you get no blood trail as many times you get no exit. Hit the shoulder blade just wrong, and you will get no vitals, just a big hole on the entrance side. Shoot one a bit far back, and on and on. Yes, I've seen it, first hand many times. Buck fever, bad angle, deer moving at the last second, I've heard it all.

To the OP, shoot a 100 grain for deer, or get a bigger gun.
 
Originally Posted By: DoublessGuys, ...And as far as the post above that said the .243 was not designed for varmints, I beg to differ. Like a lot of very successful commercial rounds, it began its life as a wildcat, used for varmints and with light bullets. Research the history of the .243. And the reason the 6MM lags in popularity is beyond me. It is a better caliber, both in accuracy and power.


I think you misread the post. I said that the .243 was not designed as just a varmint round. It was introduced commercially with the 1:10 twist to stabilize both the 80 gr and 100 gr bullets that were commercially manufactured. Both Winchester and Savage marketed their .243 rifles in the faster twist to stabilize the heavier bullet. I do know the history of the .243 because I grew up when it was being developed (man am I old
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). I reloaded for it and I still own my original Savage 110. Looking at some reliable sources other than Wikipedia, you'll find that commercially it's always been intended for both varmint and medium sized big game even though I'm sure you're correct that it was derived from earlier wildcat versions.

If the .244/6mm had been introduced in a 1:10 twist or 1:9 twist ( which incidentally later model rifles were) to handle 100 gr. factory ammo, it may well have been the more popular caliber. And either caliber shooting the 85 gr partitions should do well on deer from Texas to the Canadian border.
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Many tens of thousands of little kids and women kill just as many head of game yearly with .243 caliber rifles with no trouble. Yet hairy chested bwana types just can't get it done with the caliber. Odd... guess all those deer didn't know they weren't supposed to die unless shot by at least a .25 caliber rifle. Lets keep it our little secret for the sake of the kids.
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Dang GC ..... are you saying that I'm going to have to paint that green stock on my new .243 Predator some shade of PINK?
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I have taken deer with a lot of different calibers over the years, from the 6x45 all the way up to a .338 Win Mag. I have learned a thing or two by it all, and one thing for sure I have learned is that no two animals react the same, regardless of the caliber used.

Examples: My first .243-shot deer was done with a Ruger #1 shooting a 95 gr. Nosler Partition. The bullet hit was perfect, penetrated both lungs, yet the deer ran maybe 40 yards and fell. The second deer was shot at close to the same range with a 100 gr. Sierra SP. It dropped on the spot.

My 6x45 has accounted for two deer, both with a 75 gr. Sierra HP. One dropped instantly and the other ran maybe 30 yards and dropped.

My 25-06 has accounted for several deer and antelope. I used a Barnes X bullet that took both lungs on my first deer with that cartridge. The deer ran maybe 50 yards and fell. Another deer (mule deer) dropped instantly from a 100 gr. Speer SP. Another deer was hit a bit too far back with the same Speer load. It ran probably 75 yards before dropping. I used the Speer load for 7 antelope, and with a mixture of results. Some dropped where they stood, others ran a short disstance.

A .270 dropped one deer where it stood with a Sierra 130 gr. SP. A 7mm Mag accounted for 5 or 6 deer. Most dropped where they stood, but one was double-lunged with a 160 gr. Sierra SP, and it hauled freight for a good 75 yards before falling. I was amazed the animal could run that far with such a hit.

My 300 Win Mag accounted for one mule deer that dropped instantly. My 338 Win Mag double-lunged one deer than ran maybe 15 yards before falling. My 35 Whelen dropped one doe whitetail with a Hornady 200 gr. bullet.

A .444 Marlin double-lunged one small deer at close range of about 30 yards. The deer ran like it hadn't been touched, but what an exit wound it had. Amazing. I first thought I had missed by the way the deer ran.

This doesn't account for all the deer I have shot over the years with a variety of rifles, calibers and bullets. But it just goes to show that a large caliber alone does not account for dropping a deer any faster than a smaller one.

I am aware of farmers in Eastern Virginia head-shooting deer with 22 rifles many years ago, deer that were destroying their soybean crops. They shot the deer and distributed the meat to local residents. They head shot the deer and most dropped on the spot. Even the lowly 22 rimfire can account for deer by the hands of a steady and cool shot. I won't get into the ethics of that, just merely stating fact.

Deer can take a lot of punishment and keep going. Others seem to just fold their legs and drop where they stand. Bullet and shot placement has a lot to do with it. Caliber size just doesn't seem to matter sometimes, such as with the larger rifles I used where I placed perfect hits and deer still ran.

A .243 has accounted for a lot of deer over the years. It's also a great coyote and groundhog round.

To the original question, the 85 gr. Partitions should serve you well. Personally I would also take a look at the Barnes 85 gr. TSX if you are wanting a controlled expansion bullet. There are a host of conventional bullets available at cheaper prices that will also work well for deer. A little experimenting at the loading and shooting bench can help determine what shoots well in your rifle.

Good luck with it, and keep us all posted. We hope to see photos of big bucks, a nice rifle and a smiling face.

 
6mm06, if I had the patience to sit and type out something of that length, it would have read just as yours. I couldn't have said it better.


Chupa
 
Originally Posted By: Chupathingy6mm06, if I had the patience to sit and type out something of that length, it would have read just as yours. I couldn't have said it better.Chupa

+1

Having been raised in Nebraska where it is legal, I used a
.22-250, and later went to a .25-06 (the .25-06 handled the
X-winds better when prairie dog hunting). The .25-06 didn't
drop the mulies any faster than the .25-250.......and both
dropped them DRT. My Dad and brother used .22-250's for around
30 years with no losses. The #1 rule was, "if you can't hit
them in the lungs, don't shoot". Hornady 55gr SP's always
liquified at least 75% of the lungs.

A 85gr Partition is a huge step above a Hornady .22 55gr
bullet. Anyone who has lost a deer to a 85gr Partition was
either in very deep brush or had bad shot placement...PERIOD!

Now that I am in Iowa, no CF deer hunting is allowed in this
area. Either shotgun slug or muzzle loader. Some figure that
there are as many deer wounded to go off and die as there are
those reported as harvested, and I don't doubt it. The shot
gunners hunt deer around here like they are on rabbit hunts,
and I have found gut-shot carcasses myself. Sickening. I now
use smokeless muzzle loaders and place my shots VERY
carefully. I have lived in this state since '76 and have 100%
successful kill rate. That has meant passing up a few shots
but believe that is the responsible thing to do. Oh, and
6mm-06, I have also been perplexed as to why some deer travel
50yds and others drop with similar shot placement, even with
275gr bullets at speeds I shouldn't advertise here.
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Chupa, when you are retired, you have time to sit around like I do and write such long reports.

Here's a video clip to illustrate some "drop-dead" performers on antelope and mule deer. I wish it happened this way all the time, but unfortunately it doesn't. I will say this however, the 7mm STW has come closer to dropping game more consistently than any cartridge I have ever used. I credit velocity, bullet and caliber for it. But who knows, maybe I just picked animals that were the "droppers" and not the "runners."

OK, just for fun here it is. The first buck antelope that dropped in the video was shot at 360 yards with a 300 Remington Ultra Mag and a Barnes 168 gr. TSX. Can't argue with the performance. My 25-06 has accounted for far more mainly because I hunt with it more.

Next up was a mule deer at 137 yards, shot with the 7mm STW and a 140 gr Barnes TSX.

Next was an antelope doe shot with a 257 Arnold Magnum and a 100 gr. Sierra SP. The doe was somewhere around 75 yards distance, close for antelope.







Out of a total of 9 animals, mainly antelope, all dropped on the spot except for two doe antelope taken at around the 400 yard mark.
The wind was a factor and they were hit a bit too far back, but the went down shortly afterwards.

 
I dont have the same experience with northern whitetails as I read here. I too shoot for just behind the front foreleg and bad luck or whatever I always seem to blow half the heart away. I have used an 06 up till now and they always blow right through but a heart shot deer doesnt leave a blood trail and every one of them ran at least 60 yards and some as much as 100 yards.I think an 06 is too much gun since the bullets pass right through without a major exit hole - using soft points and lately sierra game kings. I am now preparing to go out with a new 243 using 85 gr. sierra gamekings. My longest shot would be about 275 yds. but most are much closer.
 
The .243 Win. is great medicine for whitetail regardless of where they live. Personally, I have NEVER had a whitetail take a step when I've shot them with a .243 Win. The only deer that I've ever had to track is one that I shot with a .280 Rem. I've also had to look for a huge hog that I shot with a .280 AI and never found that hog. We found a lot of lung tissue and blood but never the hog. Needless to say, I don't shoot anything with a .284 diameter any longer and I'm not sure that I ever will again. May I'll grow out of the discontent for a .284 bullet but I doubt it. My go-to guns for deer are a Remington M700 LSS in .243 Win. and a custom built .300 WSM.

Getting back to your original question ... I have absolutely no hesitation in using an 85-grain Partition, Ballistic Silver Tip, or Barnes TTSX to put venison in my freezer anywhere in the country. Shoot it in the "bend of its neck" as the neck meets the body and you'll be putting that deer in your freezer. No question!
 
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