25-45 sharps load data Help with 117gr Hornady Round nose

I'll load up some short and long. Pick up some STAINLESS ASC's. The difference in bullet choice is really expanded with an extra 0.056 length. Plus it gets closer to the lands and that option is always a good thing.

BTW I'm just an old guy with time on my hands and a couple three dozen various uppers. Lots of guys here make me pale in comparison on loading skills. I just post up about it more. Decades of competition rounded me out on my knowledge base. The only thing I have not a smattering of is black powder...lol Too lazy to clean that much.

Greg
 
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None of those bullets exist in Phoenix..LOL

I just placed an order so I will shoot sometime the week after this as they won't be here until Friday. My curiosity is up on this one now.

Greg
 
I know sportsmans warehouse in mesa had one box the shelf for months, then when I made the move to buy them, they were gone! I ended up ordering a box from brownells and will get them on the 14th.

mike
 
I ordered form Midway. Minimally cheaper and will come in sooner..LOL None at SW here on my side of town. I hit the same problem with some 6 MM TNT's a while back that I needed badly.I ended up getting 600 just to have handy. Bruno's was on back order so that was a bummer on the 117's.

Greg
 
Greg,
Finally got the 117 rnd nose in the mail Saturday, and since we were considering RL 7 I took a case and dropped 24 grns in it for giggles! It would be slightly compressed with this bullet, aint saying its not doable, it looks like the powder is resting about an 1/8 below the shoulder. Well considering this I went to sportsmans and bought a lb of A2200, that is the smallest ball powder Ive seen yet and at 24 grns, ther is plenty of room for more. Ive been searching opd ( other peoples data ) and see 24 is about right and its been tested, now in your opinion how much if any should starting be with 450 mag primers, whats your op?

Mike
 
Mine came in yesterday, a day late, so I'll load them on Tuesday and shoot on Thursday. I will have to research it some more but looking at 6X45 data and using AA 2200 and factoring in the bigger bore I would be looking at 24 being a MAX I would be more comfortable at 23 myself. Sharps MAXES an 87 at 25 but they drop two full grains between 70 and 87, 17 grains, and we are looking at a 30 grain jump so my gut says 24 will definitely be high end with 23.5 a top end. I'll shoot a few up to 24 as I go so it will be instructional on velocity. The bearing surface on the 117 is also going to be longer and that always makes a difference in pressures.

On the RL7 I will do a bit of comparison too and see what I am comfortable with based out of 6X45 data. I've played enough of this one caliber bigger stuff to be relatively comfortable with it but as we are exceeding the heaviest 6X45 bullets that does put a bit of a twist in there.

I'll use 450's.

Greg
 
Greg, really looking forward to your results this is a combination I have been wondering about for a while. I will try and match you outcome with the same loads and compare. It will be at least a few weeks before I can do anything because Im having my right kidney removed on monday, its loaded with cancer. But its exciting for me what your doing with this load and Im completely appreciative of your effots and time being invested.

Thanks Mike
 
I've spent the day crunching numbers looking at bullets for minimum load length and distance to lands. I am running several through QL with case capacity adjustments. I'll have data up the wahzoo once this is done. I do know the 87 Hornady SP is a no-go even in long magazines unless you cut them out. (I would do that in a heartbeat BTW..LOL) It will be interesting.

I'm a nurse so your kidney issue does cause me concern. I wish well my friend and a very quick recovery. Meanwhile be vicariously informed.

Grefg
 
Originally Posted By: mesamikeI dont have any asc mags at this time but I believe it was Randy from SRC, that said to load the 117 grns to standard mag lenth. As far as RL 7 I have about a lb left and the only load I do with it is the 80 grn ttsx. I use a file and file the plastic tips bown to within a 1/16 of the copper and their really accurate. Got that from arfcom when you guys were dabbing with the 25-223 forum. Like I said been watching your posts for quite a while and have the utmost repect for your advisements...mike
Yes the barrel is a bhw great shooter too!
oops forgot the length question, Im using pmag gen3 and loading to 2.237

I got to thinking about this. I don't understand why a P Mag would not load to 2.260. They wouldn't even handle a SAAMI cartridge if 2.237 was your MAX available.

The difference in pressure between a round of 2.300, easy in an ASC, vs. 2.237 is about 6-9,000 PSI on some charges. It would turn way over pressure it to top end usable at the longer length.

Greg
 
Originally Posted By: mesamikeThats amazing on the psi, is that because interior case volume or having to compress loads? Wow..
mike

Purely case volume being sucked up by the bullet getting shoved sown in the case. For instance the 87 Hornady cannot be loaded below 2.257 based on the ogive. The 90 Sierra Game King on the other hand could theoretically be loaded down to 2.160.

It's a balancing act between too short and too long with the bullet moving up and down and on and off the lands. The throat on a SAAMI 25X45 is so long you will never be in danger of hitting the lands from any magazine you can stick a cartridge in.

Greg
 
Hello Greg, I loaded a dummy round and it worked out to 2.247.5 with the case opening right at the cannalure. The case length is 1.744 and I dont crimp anything so loading to asc lengths is my ultimate goal also. A whle back I called src and was talking with Gary the sharps guroo about the swine smasher 100gr. I found out that they use 2230 @ 25.2 grns and so I ordered one box, well I coudnt help my self and took one apart and lo and behold it was loaded to 25.7 grns!
The bullet length is .813.5 , case was 1.744 , then I did a field test.
I bought a rack of beef ribs because of heavy bones and used three one gallon jugs of water, the shot was at ten yards.
The bullet passed dead center of the middle rib and completely shattered a two inch area of the rack and pieces of the bullet made their way to the second jug of water. The pieces I did recover was a mangled copper cup and a small piece of lead, the cup weighed 29.7 and remaining lead weighed 35.6 grns total weight 65.3 .
I also tested a 80grn ttsx with four 1 gal jugs, the bullet over 24 grns of Rl 7 it made it to the skin of the fourth jug by leaving a minor dent and dropping to the ground.
The bullet was picture perfect with 4 neatly curled petals pealed back all the way to the first cannalure and weighed 79.9grns...amazing!
Mike
 
Originally Posted By: mesamikeHello Greg, I loaded a dummy round and it worked out to 2.247.5 with the case opening right at the cannalure. The case length is 1.744 and I dont crimp anything so loading to asc lengths is my ultimate goal also. A whle back I called src and was talking with Gary the sharps guroo about the swine smasher 100gr. I found out that they use 2230 @ 25.2 grns and so I ordered one box, well I coudnt help my self and took one apart and lo and behold it was loaded to 25.7 grns!
The bullet length is .813.5 , case was 1.744 , then I did a field test.
I bought a rack of beef ribs because of heavy bones and used three one gallon jugs of water, the shot was at ten yards.
The bullet passed dead center of the middle rib and completely shattered a two inch area of the rack and pieces of the bullet made their way to the second jug of water. The pieces I did recover was a mangled copper cup and a small piece of lead, the cup weighed 29.7 and remaining lead weighed 35.6 grns total weight 65.3 .
I also tested a 80grn ttsx with four 1 gal jugs, the bullet over 24 grns of Rl 7 it made it to the skin of the fourth jug by leaving a minor dent and dropping to the ground.
The bullet was picture perfect with 4 neatly curled petals pealed back all the way to the first cannalure and weighed 79.9grns...amazing!
Mike


Yes you can load that 117 down very short theoretically. I have the number in my reloading room and I will see what I got. I'll posts up some pics for comparison later.

0.5 grain variation is a bit less than 2%so is inconsequential in the real world. Fed. GMM 308 is loaded + orr - 3% , per the guys I talked with, and look how it shoots..LOL

It is a good little mid-range round. the old 250-3000 killed a lot of animals and this is what we have here.

Greg
 
Yes the 250-3000 , I was astonished to find articles that stated they never could back up the 3000 claim back then with the 87 grain. Then came the 243 but its a tatolly different round. The 250 back then was the hot item until then and people hunted everything with it including elk and moose!
One of these days Im going to bust the cash out and buy some gelatin and do a vid on the 25-45 and Im shocked sharps hasnt done it yet. It would be entertaining to see that and curiosity is getting the best of me till I do.
mike
 
I finally got the test ammunition loaded. Life has been sucking up my play time lately. Left to right is the Hornady 87 SP at 2.26 and 2.3, the Hornady 117 RN at 2.26 and 2.3 and on the right the Sierra 90 GK at 2.26. The stripes are Sharpies to delineate my loads and that way when I get home even if they are jumbled up I can tell what was what.



Note this particular 87 is right at the ogive at 2.2. I have other 87's. Not an ideal choice. One could trim the case about 0.010 and be fine or move up to any of the three 90's I have that are appropriate for this cartridge in expansion.

Given the creek doesn't rise I hope to shoot these Wednesday and get some numbers out on Thursday.

Greg
 
Thanks brother they look fantastic! I got released from deser baner about 7pm last night and I haveto wear a foly bag and cathider till next week some time so I cant even ride in car right now. Surgery took 5 1/2 hours monday ouch. What powder are you using in this load for now? Im gonna go lay back down now the staples hurt but wanted to touch base with you, thanks my friend..mike
 
With the 87's AA200 and AA2230. Two charge weights with each and two lengths with the longer loads bumped 0.5 to 1.0 grains. , 2.260 and 2.300 on them. With the 115's I used AA2200 and RL7. Three charge weights with each and once again at 2.20 and 2.300 with the long ones getting 0.5 grain bump. I loaded the 90 GK's with 25.0 of AA 2200 at 2.260, seven rounds, just because I was curious. All cases are SPEER 1X and all primers are 450's. 107 total to fire. I put my 24X Leupold on it so I can cheat.

The surgery was a bear at 5.5 hours. I know about the discomfort of the foley post op. I worked a bunch in CCU and Open Heart so they were common. Keep the spirts up and this will pass.

Greg
 
Happy monday Greg! Well its day 8 since surgery finally getting some mobility back, and now im bumbed, didnt get drawn for elk..
Oh well onto the deer draw now. Didnt guess you would do 107 test rounds, thats impressive cant wait for your results and report, you the man brother!

Mike
 
Originally Posted By: mesamikeHappy monday Greg! Well its day 8 since surgery finally getting some mobility back, and now im bumbed, didnt get drawn for elk..
Oh well onto the deer draw now. Didnt guess you would do 107 test rounds, thats impressive cant wait for your results and report, you the man brother!

Mike

Got 'em shot Saturday and am now crunching numbers from the LabRadar transferring over to my Ecel spreadsheets.

The numbers aren't bad. It certainly has potential with the 117's. I shot mostly for speed/pressure but got some decent usable stuff.

Greg
 
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