223 vs 22-250 vs 204

Originally Posted By: hunter97Well im probaly going to buy a new rifle and was wondering what caliber I should get? The shots are going to be 350 yards or less for mainly coyotes but I dont want to have to sew up the occassilnal bobcat or fox.



let them get out to 350 then....shoot them at 50 w/ any of those cals prob gonna have to sew....shoot them at 350 w/ those cals prob no sew required....i'd get the triple deuce 5-0.....
 
Originally Posted By: Brendan43Originally Posted By: Tjkiller223, The 250 may get it done from a bolt gun a little better a little farther outbut, shoot anything less than a yote and it will rain fur for a week.

Hey are you plagiarizing Gerry Blair?
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yup
 
Originally Posted By: HereticOriginally Posted By: joedAt 350 yards you've already eliminated my least favorite cartridge the .223. It's a 200 yard cartridge, 225 at best.

My choice would be the .22-250, it's good past 350 yards and has more killing power then the .204 at long range.

I remember someone in the military telling me that the effective range of a .223 is 300 meters. 984 ft. Effective meaning potential to kill a 160lb human. I could be wrong though.

One of the guys in a recent coyote contest mentioned he had a 470yd shot on a coyote. Killed it.

YMMV.

M16A2 - 550 m point target, 800 meters area target
 
Joed,

Just to show you that I am not against the 22-250. I ran these calculations on JBM ballistics based off of the load that I am using in my 223 and the load that my buddy is using in his 22-250. FPS, drop, and FPE have been rounded off:

223, 60gr sierra HP, 3100FPS, 100yd zero
300yd: 11" drop 631 FPE
400yd: 27" drop 481 FPE
500yd: 53" drop 363 FPE

22-250, 55gr sierra SBT, 3500FPS, 100yd zero
300yd: 8" drop 773 FPE
400yd: 20" drop 601 FPE
500yd: 39" drop 459 FPE

Both calibers quite capable of killing yotes at these ranges. A pierced heart, lung(s), or liver is that no matter how fast the bullet pierced them. As you can see though, their isnt that much difference in drop at 300yd and the 223 has more than enough FPE to get the buisiness done at that range. If a person cannot call a yote more times than not into 300yds and much closer, they need to look at their calling technique and set up, not the weapon.

However, my buddy's 22-250 really out shines the 223 at 400 and beyond as far as drop and FPE go. It gets their quicker with less drop, less time in the wind, and more FPE. But at the end of the day, if you know your rifles exterior ballistics, the 223 will get it there and do it with excellence. Hec, I know what my rifle is doing at 400yds, and If I absolutely could not get that song dog to come in closer, than 400, I am betting I would drop the hammer on it.

The 22-250 does it better, but the 223 does it just fine...
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Originally Posted By: swift oneJoed,

Just to show you that I am not against the 22-250. I ran these calculations on JBM ballistics based off of the load that I am using in my 223 and the load that my buddy is using in his 22-250. FPS, drop, and FPE have been rounded off:

223, 60gr sierra HP, 3100FPS, 100yd zero
300yd: 11" drop 631 FPE
400yd: 27" drop 481 FPE
500yd: 53" drop 363 FPE

22-250, 55gr sierra SBT, 3500FPS, 100yd zero
300yd: 8" drop 773 FPE
400yd: 20" drop 601 FPE
500yd: 39" drop 459 FPE

Both calibers quite capable of killing yotes at these ranges. A pierced heart, lung(s), or liver is that no matter how fast the bullet pierced them. As you can see though, their isnt that much difference in drop at 300yd and the 223 has more than enough FPE to get the buisiness done at that range. If a person cannot call a yote more times than not into 300yds and much closer, they need to look at their calling technique and set up, not the weapon.

However, my buddy's 22-250 really out shines the 223 at 400 and beyond as far as drop and FPE go. It gets their quicker with less drop, less time in the wind, and more FPE. But at the end of the day, if you know your rifles exterior ballistics, the 223 will get it there and do it with excellence. Hec, I know what my rifle is doing at 400yds, and If I absolutely could not get that song dog to come in closer, than 400, I am betting I would drop the hammer on it.

The 22-250 does it better, but the 223 does it just fine...
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Just pointing out that 11" drop @ 300 compared to 8" drop @ 300 is nearly 33% more drop. I would consider that significant looking at those two figures.
 
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swift one, on paper they don't look too far off at all for 300 yard use, just a few inches.

I just know every time I'd take my .223 hunting I'd get shots all day long over 400 yards. You had to be there, on my friend's turn (.22-250) he'd get a shot at 100 yards. My turn (.223) I'd get a shot at 400 to 500 yards. After a summer of to many misses I added the .22-250.

The areas I hunt can provide shots to over 600 yards on occasion. I'm to new to the .22-250 and don't know it's limitations yet as this is my first season with it. Prior hunting was done with a 700 VS in .25-06 till I tried the .223 last year.
 
Quote:Just pointing out that 11" drop @ 300 compared to 8" drop @ 300 is nearly 33% more drop

Quote: swift one, on paper they don't look too far off at all for 300 yard use, just a few inches.

LMAO, it's all about where you put the target in relation to the mildots...
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Hey, whatever. If you are not acustom to using a drop reticle then get something that shoots flatter. If you can confidently use a drop reticle, then great. Point is, the 223 is quite capable of killing song dogs at ranges way way past 225. Yes, it drops- not like a rock though. And still holds enough FPE to snatch the soul out of yotes.

And BTW, the 25-06 is a freaking outstanding round!!!
 
Originally Posted By: swift one Quote:Just pointing out that 11" drop @ 300 compared to 8" drop @ 300 is nearly 33% more drop

Quote: swift one, on paper they don't look too far off at all for 300 yard use, just a few inches.

LMAO, it's all about where you put the target in relation to the mildots...
rolleyes.gif
Hey, whatever. If you are not acustom to using a drop reticle then get something that shoots flatter. If you can confidently use a drop reticle, then great. Point is, the 223 is quite capable of killing song dogs at ranges way way past 225. Yes, it drops- not like a rock though. And still holds enough FPE to snatch the soul out of yotes.

And BTW, the 25-06 is a freaking outstanding round!!!

We can also look at these with a zero set up for a maximum point blank range. I understand and agree with what you are saying and only wanted to show this for a comparison in the way some folks set up some rifle/scopes.

These are using your figures with the optimal zeros for each caliber. (around 242 yards for the 223 and 276 yards for the 22-250). This is just an example. I use a different round/load with different results so I just ran yours for comparison.

223

100 = +2.6
200 = +2.0
300 = -4.7
400 = -19.3
500 = -44.6

Using these figures we get a pbr of about 283 yards.

22-250

100 = +2.4
200 = +2.8
300 = -1.5
400 = -11.8
500 = -29.8


Using these figures we get a pbr of about 321 yards.

I believe all three are good choices, I just prefer the 223 for the reasons I listed earlier. Plus I know my round and I can place it where I want to.
 
I am not picking on the .223. I think it is just fine. I do not have one but I do have its close cousin, a .222. Very accurate gun.

But as the old saying goes, "there is no replacement for displacement", the same holds true for guns. A faster heavier projectile will always prevail at long range. But that is not to say the .223 is inferior. But just because the .223 can get it done does not make it ideal for everyone.

I would definatley pick either the .223 or the .22-250 over the .204 for hunting based on bullet weight alone. And then for shots over 300 yards I would pick the .22-250 based on its further reach. Again I am not saying the .223 will not get the job done.

I look at it like this. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. And when it comes to bullets, the shortest amount of flight time, and the shortest distance traveled, is benefeicial due to less oportunity for the elements to effect accuracy. The higher arch (longer flight path) required by the .223 handicaps that round when compared to the .22-250 at long range. Especially in a hunting scenario with the wind howling.
 
Well The .204 gets my vote. I think most people that have posted on this forget that your concerned with fur of fox and bobcat. The fox and bobcat I would recomend a 32gr bullet. I would go with Nosler, but I'm partial to their bullets.

When hunting coyotes I would go with a 40gr. projectile. In your case I wouldn't go with the Nosler's here. In my experience they just do too much damage. I've never had one NOT exit a coyote. That could be because I shoot them through the throat or right behind the shoulder.

Yes the 5mm bullet may not have the ballistic coefficent of some of the heavier 22cal bullets. It will be affected by the wind a little more and drop a little quicker than the 250. Like with any round get used to it and know how it reacts to wind and it's limitations and you'll be just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: kdixerI am not picking on the .223. I think it is just fine. I do not have one but I do have its close cousin, a .222. Very accurate gun.

But as the old saying goes, "there is no replacement for displacement", the same holds true for guns. A faster heavier projectile will always prevail at long range. But that is not to say the .223 is inferior. But just because the .223 can get it done does not make it ideal for everyone.

I would definatley pick either the .223 or the .22-250 over the .204 for hunting based on bullet weight alone. And then for shots over 300 yards I would pick the .22-250 based on its further reach. Again I am not saying the .223 will not get the job done.

I look at it like this. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. And when it comes to bullets, the shortest amount of flight time, and the shortest distance traveled, is benefeicial due to less oportunity for the elements to effect accuracy. The higher arch (longer flight path) required by the .223 handicaps that round when compared to the .22-250 at long range. Especially in a hunting scenario with the wind howling.

Then I guess we should all stop hunting with the .22 cal rifles and get 338,408,50BMG's out since there is no replacement for displacement!!!

This is a never ending battle! It's simple pick the rifle you like the best and then look at what cals. they offer it in. Then look at the cost of ammo even IF you do reload.

While my pick is for the .223 as I agree with the others. You have to know your rifle and what the bullet will do. I would not have a problem shooting at a coyote at 300+ yards with my .223! I see no point in a 22-250 as I can make my .243 do the same and more!

So again forget what everyone says and go with what fits you the best! All 3 will kill with the right shot and all 3 will have runners with bad shots. If you can't afford to shoot it you won't be any good with it!
 
dmpowder Then I guess we should all stop hunting with the .22 cal rifles and get 338 said:
Next time I will keep my opinion to myself since anything but praises for the .223 seems to be unacceptable. I never once bashed the .223 and quite frankly I could care less what anyone uses. The .223 is a fine round for sure, but it is not the cure all. If you shoot a .223 I don't think people are going to look down their noses at you, but there is no need get your toes stepped on if someone chooses to go a different route.
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Quote: I look at it like this. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. And when it comes to bullets, the shortest amount of flight time, and the shortest distance traveled, is benefeicial due to less oportunity for the elements to effect accuracy. The higher arch (longer flight path) required by the .223 handicaps that round when compared to the .22-250 at long range. Especially in a hunting scenario with the wind howling.


kdixer,

I agree with you whole heartily. I for one appreciate your input.

I think the point that I was trying to make was that even though the 22-250 absolutely trumps the pants off of a 223 (especially at the longer ranges), I am saying that the 223 is way more than a 200/225yd round for yotes.

Again, it the old debate of classic chamberings vs. the magnum chamberings for big game. Personally I freaking love all three calibers listed. The 204 being the least loved for coyotes- but it can get it done too. Youtube I believe has vid of a 500yd kill on a coyote with a 35gr berger HP.

I just dont like it when some folks want to discontinue and give discredit to some time proven chamberings because they have something more powerful. The 22-250 and 220 swift are freaking soul snatchers in the predator hunting world as far as .224 calibers rifles go. They are kings of the 224s. Anyone that would dispute that really needs to take a class in exterior ballistics. But, lesser 224s are quite capable within reason.

When I hunt over bait piles or I am calling in a place with cagey dogs, I have no problem breaking out the 7mm-08 and putting that 150gr WAY down range. But I have had great success with the 223 in 90% of my calling situations, once I upgraded to a slower expanding heavier bullet.
 
I shot the 40 pound coyote in my avatar with a .223 55gr. V-Max at 284 yards. As you can see from the entrance hole, it was a pretty good shot, but he still did a bit of spinning before going down for the count.

From what I have seen I would call the .223, at maximum, a 300 yard coyote cartridge.

In a calling rifle were most shots will be well under 200 yards, the .223 serves well.

The more powerful .22-250 is a better choice in a general use hunting rifle were shots could be very close or very long.
 
Had them all, used them all, loved them all...for different reasons.

I found the .204 a super flat, easy shooting, low recoil round that I have used for hunting and precision shooting matches outto 850 yards. There is a limitation on bullet weights, 32, 40 and 45gr, which can limit the usefulness.

Lots of .22 caliber bullets to be had in any number of weights. The 22-250 is nice because I can push a heavier bullet, at high speeds which helps with the wind issue.

The .223 tends to be my go to, because I like the AR platform. Does a nice job, might be a little hard on the fur if you make a less than perfect hit.

I agree with some of the other guys, caliber does not replace skill and accuracy. Bigger does not always equate to better. A miss is a miss.
 
Check out the Marlin X7vH in 22-250. Just picked one up for $325 out the door. Also, look at the ballistics charts for comparisons. I chose the 22-250 and the Marlin
 
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