13 dogs in a day?

Originally Posted By: DropadoglvI've been hunting these contests since the early nineties. Some small local contests and some big such as the worlds, won a quite a few, placed in a few and didn't do crap in a heck of a lot. Can 13 win in basically a 12 hr hunt? "Yes", but jmho, highly unlikely if your following every rule. I've seen many teams get "busted" by cheating. Such as pooling, having dogs stashed in certain places, other people hunting already and not part of the contest. Jump hunting with 4 man teams, road hunting, shooting over dead piles and the list goes on! I'm not saying that there are cheaters in every contest, but they are out there. Having private land is a huge advantage, using decoy dogs, "huge"! If the rules allow it, then so be it. I was in a recent hunt here in NV. Was in the same hunt last year in which 5 dogs won in a straight 26 hr hunt. Figured this year right around the same would win? Usually after going to the same contests year after year you get to know your fellow hunters. This year at the last minutes before check in, a team came in with 13...2nd was 5...3rd was 4. I call BS on that!!! I wasn't their to see how the dogs were being checked such as liver temp, green belly, jaw..etc. but??? Just kinda weird how it all worked out. Yes, we have a heck of a lot of dogs out here in the SW. But also a heck of a lot of yote hunters too. I guess there is only so much you can do to make sure that all yotes shot were in that contests time period? Guess when $$$ and or weapons are the winning prizes, people will do "anything" to win.

Unfortunately, I was directed to this post by email from a friend of mine. I've been on the other side of this argument as well on the very same hunt a few years back. Pearson and Phillips took 21 in a 24hr hunt. Everyone was pissed and accusations were flying all over from just about everyone. After a little time passed, I realized it was possible especially in October when the pups are out running around like idiots.

This hunt was also a 24-26hr hunt. We did 3 stands at night and saw nothing (night hunting sucks balls if you're not in a high rack)so we did all of our hunting in daylight (32 stands). We called 14 and killed 13 of them. It's become fairly common for us to kill 8-10 in a day (with shotguns AKA "bird guns" by R.Shaw) in almost any areas we hunt. It's just not that difficult folks. 13 is our best in a day of competition but we have killed more outside of competition in a single day. And for the record, 13 won, 8 was 2nd, and 5 was 3rd at the NV Coyote Classic.

And if you have been doing these competitions for 30+ years, you probably have seen us around before. We didn't come out of the wood shed. We've won or placed in a bunch of local and regional events in the last 8 years. We placed 4th at Worlds (12 coyotes) a month before the NV Classic. We waited around at Worlds to be polygraphed in case anybody failed. We never even sweated it because we know we don't cheat. Chris Garret (promoter of the NV Classic)knows us and knows we don't cheat. Never have, never will. There's no glory or satisfaction for us if you have to cheat to win. Contrary to most, we don't hunt these for the money or the guns. We do it solely for the reckoning. We don't have a TV show, or guide, or promote any manufacturers products that we don't use. We are just killers, plain and simple.

And like others have stated in this thread, a lot of work and know how goes into winning these things. On a side note, don't believe anything anyone tells you about where they hunted. Public land, private land, whatever it is, it's definition can change from day to day. I can tell you with 100% certainty that we killed all 13 coyotes in the desert 100% legally and according to contest rules.

Matt Stewart
President South West Predator Callers
#SWPC
 
Its the old to each their own basically...
I know contest rules are in place to make things as fair and uniform as possible.
Myself I've never tried one nor really had an interest in any flyers I see advertising them.
My mental hurdle is that despite the rules..........its just not like sports where all rims are 10 feet, courts are 45 feet wide or fields are 100 yards long with regulation field goal posts etc...
Especially in a state with mostly private land you just can't level the playing field.
As I said to begin though, to each their own. Heck, I know people that still watch baseball.
 
Good on you inoculation, we have had folks beat around the bush asking us all kinds of questions thinking that we were cheating. They shut down when we informed them that our camera guy filmed every set. I know me personally have had my doubts about winning teams but, we all have to check our pride at the door of these check ins and understand that all we get out of a contest is what we put into it. It can go either way. I can walk away smiling knowing that I hunted my balls off and will never cheat. For us, the same guys throwing out accusations are the ones hunting 2 properties and doing 3 sets a night wondering how another team can kill so many in a night. ....700 miles on the truck in 2 days and 30 different properties to choose from over 5 counties. Some teams put so little effort in during the off season and some are out every week networking with landowners and scouting. Sone teams hunt the same properties all year and expect to win when others painfully pass on calling these great honey holes all year knowing that a contest is comming up. If you are lucky, you put in hour after hour and try to know your area as well as you can, eventually things will work out for you
 
For me, the private land is the biggest draw. The ability to obtain hunting rights to places that no one else can hunt, or even has hunted in many years, is as much fun as killing dogs and cats.
 
Yup. It's a rewarding feeling when the season is about to open and you lay out your map of properties and see all that time and effort right in front of you
 
Originally Posted By: InoculationOriginally Posted By: DropadoglvI've been hunting these contests since the early nineties. Some small local contests and some big such as the worlds, won a quite a few, placed in a few and didn't do crap in a heck of a lot. Can 13 win in basically a 12 hr hunt? "Yes", but jmho, highly unlikely if your following every rule. I've seen many teams get "busted" by cheating. Such as pooling, having dogs stashed in certain places, other people hunting already and not part of the contest. Jump hunting with 4 man teams, road hunting, shooting over dead piles and the list goes on! I'm not saying that there are cheaters in every contest, but they are out there. Having private land is a huge advantage, using decoy dogs, "huge"! If the rules allow it, then so be it. I was in a recent hunt here in NV. Was in the same hunt last year in which 5 dogs won in a straight 26 hr hunt. Figured this year right around the same would win? Usually after going to the same contests year after year you get to know your fellow hunters. This year at the last minutes before check in, a team came in with 13...2nd was 5...3rd was 4. I call BS on that!!! I wasn't their to see how the dogs were being checked such as liver temp, green belly, jaw..etc. but??? Just kinda weird how it all worked out. Yes, we have a heck of a lot of dogs out here in the SW. But also a heck of a lot of yote hunters too. I guess there is only so much you can do to make sure that all yotes shot were in that contests time period? Guess when $$$ and or weapons are the winning prizes, people will do "anything" to win.

Unfortunately, I was directed to this post by email from a friend of mine. I've been on the other side of this argument as well on the very same hunt a few years back. Pearson and Phillips took 21 in a 24hr hunt. Everyone was pissed and accusations were flying all over from just about everyone. After a little time passed, I realized it was possible especially in October when the pups are out running around like idiots.

This hunt was also a 24-26hr hunt. We did 3 stands at night and saw nothing (night hunting sucks balls if you're not in a high rack)so we did all of our hunting in daylight (32 stands). We called 14 and killed 13 of them. It's become fairly common for us to kill 8-10 in a day (with shotguns AKA "bird guns" by R.Shaw) in almost any areas we hunt. It's just not that difficult folks. 13 is our best in a day of competition but we have killed more outside of competition in a single day. And for the record, 13 won, 8 was 2nd, and 5 was 3rd at the NV Coyote Classic.

And if you have been doing these competitions for 30+ years, you probably have seen us around before. We didn't come out of the wood shed. We've won or placed in a bunch of local and regional events in the last 8 years. We placed 4th at Worlds (12 coyotes) a month before the NV Classic. We waited around at Worlds to be polygraphed in case anybody failed. We never even sweated it because we know we don't cheat. Chris Garret (promoter of the NV Classic)knows us and knows we don't cheat. Never have, never will. There's no glory or satisfaction for us if you have to cheat to win. Contrary to most, we don't hunt these for the money or the guns. We do it solely for the reckoning. We don't have a TV show, or guide, or promote any manufacturers products that we don't use. We are just killers, plain and simple.

And like others have stated in this thread, a lot of work and know how goes into winning these things. On a side note, don't believe anything anyone tells you about where they hunted. Public land, private land, whatever it is, it's definition can change from day to day. I can tell you with 100% certainty that we killed all 13 coyotes in the desert 100% legally and according to contest rules.

Matt Stewart
President South West Predator Callers
#SWPC
wasn't talking about the NV coyote Classic, this one took place in early December....if I remember correctly that one took place in early January. And take this with a grain of salt, eye brows were raised on that one to? I wasn't their to see it. Just heard from a third party...
 
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How in the world do you get 32 stands (only 3 at night) in a 24-26 hr period. 10 hrs of daylight is 600 minutes and 10 min stands + 10 min to walk in and out = 20 min per stand is 640 minutes not counting any drive time. Not doubting ya, just asking....
 
Fair enough Dropadoglv, I know eyebrows were raised at the classic. For those that know us, it wasn't a surprise.

littledawg, we spend 8 to 10 minutes max on a stand. We never, and I mean NEVER walk farther from the truck than 100yds, most of the time we are within 40-50yds. I figure we spend about 15 minutes max per stand. That makes 15x32 for 480 min or 8 hours. The other 2 are for driving/eating. Even if we kill a dog, it's like clockwork. One guy grabs the caller, the other grabs the dog/dogs. by the time the dog/dogs gets to the truck, the other guy has the phone ready and tag or kill block. they get thrown in and we roll to the next stand. usually 3/4 mile to a mile away and start all over. We do this all day long and only eat when traveling. What we do isn't necessarily fun unless you enjoy killing dogs more than the scenery or sounds. It's definitely not for everyone.
 
The local tournament we were in was a hunt from daylight to dark so pretty much 7am to 630 pm. Most everyone had a pretty rough day. The winning teams however were 1st place 13 yotes 2 cats. 2nd place 10 yotes 3 cats. 3rd place 9 yotes. Wow. First time in oklahoma i have ever heard of someone getting three cats in one day calling. This was a calling only no baiting no decoy dogs etc.
 
Originally Posted By: weekenderWhat is a "kill block"? some contests still use them, looks like a piece of wood which goes between the canines teeth, then the dogs mouth is zip tied shut. I've seen that some contests are using small hollow dowels that you place between the upper and lover canine teeth in them, then the dogs jaw is zip tied...just to add, if your fortunate to run outta them,,,you normally place the left paw of the dog in the mouth and wrap it shut! But there r many methods....
 
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That's the tough love of calling tournaments. You're never gonna hear the tactics from the winning teams except "we got lucky today." How many winners have said they sat on the dead piles of a feed yard, or shot one while driving to another spot, or any other handicapped scenario. Regardless, 13+ coyotes is a good days chore. More times than not, the good sportsman leaves with no money but his head held high and enjoyed all the stories from other fellow hunters just as much as the hunting. Coyote contests are fun but I personally think that high prize money puts more pressure on the hunting and causes more whoopsies and if the weather is bad, you're still hunting your good spots on days coyotes might not respond.
 
Man we had one [beeep] of a time!!! I would like to get a group of 20 or so local teams i know and trust together and do a day hunt just for fun with a small entry fee just to see how it goes
 
Originally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCallerGreat Thread! Sorry Josh, yes it was a good thread, but I say, let this one go! Key word being "WAS"....lol
 
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Contests, Facebook and Coyote hunting shows on TV are the main reason coyote hunting is getting harder and harder. I wish they would ban all contests!! Everyone wants to be in a contest. It don't matter if they have a clue, its just another way to gamble. They screw more coyotes up than they kill and all of the sudden coyotes just get harder and harder to call.

With that being said, killing 12-15 in a day is not that hard if you have the right ground and a good plan. I have noticed that a lot of contests in Texas are now the fastest to 12. Some guys have their 12 by noon. No cheating!

And whoever thinks a decoy dog helps in a contest has lost their ever loving mind. My dogs run off way more than they lure in. Now, if the contest was in June, it would be different, But i still wouldnt use a dog unless it was for tracking a cripple.
 
I did one local contest when they were still legal to give a prize in my state.I got 5 all called in a guy showed up with 15 and most didn't have a pipe in their mouth like the rules were stated and they won.That was it for me they still do it locally every year and people start 2 days before the contest because I see the spot lighters all over the country side.As long as they don't spot light my family ranch I leave the knuckle heads alone.Now I do the on line one for fun nphf.
 
The reining 2-time World Champ Geoff Nemnich makes 30 plus stands in daylight hours only. No night hunting period. It's absolutely possible. Remember, just because you've never done it, doesn't mean it can't be done. Making more stands= your call in more ears. Simple math. Calling contests separate good callers from great callers.
 
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