Educated coyotes??
- Thread starter Redfrog
- Start date
Randy,
I Terraserver'd Sibley area. Aerial view, looks similiar to my area. Have any pics, of that terrain? How tall are the hills around there?
I'm sure you know this. When I drive the gravel road[slowly], spottin. Especially when it's very cold out. The gravel becomes very loud. Needless to say, they hear you coming a mile away.
Last Fall & winter. I kept seeing a large wooly gray coyote [nomad]. He'd bed in the same spot, repeatidly. I never seen him with his head down, as this was not his territory.
I tried stalking in on him 3 different times. Two times on hard bare ground[picked soy bean field] Et 1 time on hard pack snow.
All 3 times, I had a hard blowing quartering wind, cutting across my bee-line[from him to me]. He busted me every time, after snapping a bean stubble on the stalk-in. This was around the 1/4 mile marker from him. I managed to graze his shoulder on 1 of those stalks, a quick prone shot.
When I do call my area. I don't go in farther than a 1/4 mile max. Mostly, 1/8 mile then plop down.
I Terraserver'd Sibley area. Aerial view, looks similiar to my area. Have any pics, of that terrain? How tall are the hills around there?
I'm sure you know this. When I drive the gravel road[slowly], spottin. Especially when it's very cold out. The gravel becomes very loud. Needless to say, they hear you coming a mile away.
Last Fall & winter. I kept seeing a large wooly gray coyote [nomad]. He'd bed in the same spot, repeatidly. I never seen him with his head down, as this was not his territory.
I tried stalking in on him 3 different times. Two times on hard bare ground[picked soy bean field] Et 1 time on hard pack snow.
All 3 times, I had a hard blowing quartering wind, cutting across my bee-line[from him to me]. He busted me every time, after snapping a bean stubble on the stalk-in. This was around the 1/4 mile marker from him. I managed to graze his shoulder on 1 of those stalks, a quick prone shot.
When I do call my area. I don't go in farther than a 1/4 mile max. Mostly, 1/8 mile then plop down.
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Getting back on topic.
The word "conditioned". Another word that comes to mind, is; Habituated.
Habituated, as in the local coyotes, have little fear of humans. Like a crow, they appear to know when you have a weapon in your hand. Coyote's size up potential threats, nothing new there.
Coyote, see's a farmer in his tractor...little fear. Coyote follows close behind the tractor knowing it can/will kick-up prey. Their good @ sizing up & taking advantage.
A few Fall's ago. One of my farmer friends who had some sheep killed. Was harvesting a cornfield. A coyote followed close behind his combine, scarfing down field mice.
Farmers wife came down the road, to bring him lunch. combine pulls off onto his hayfield by the cornfield. Cottintail rabbit kicks up. Coyote caught the rabbit.
Farmer & his wife sitting on the tailgate of his wife's pick-up truck. Eating their lunch, watching the coyote. Coyote, laid close by eating it's rabbit & watching them.
Winter snowfly on the open rolling crop hills, no cover. You have to go to them.
The word "conditioned". Another word that comes to mind, is; Habituated.
Habituated, as in the local coyotes, have little fear of humans. Like a crow, they appear to know when you have a weapon in your hand. Coyote's size up potential threats, nothing new there.
Coyote, see's a farmer in his tractor...little fear. Coyote follows close behind the tractor knowing it can/will kick-up prey. Their good @ sizing up & taking advantage.
A few Fall's ago. One of my farmer friends who had some sheep killed. Was harvesting a cornfield. A coyote followed close behind his combine, scarfing down field mice.
Farmers wife came down the road, to bring him lunch. combine pulls off onto his hayfield by the cornfield. Cottintail rabbit kicks up. Coyote caught the rabbit.
Farmer & his wife sitting on the tailgate of his wife's pick-up truck. Eating their lunch, watching the coyote. Coyote, laid close by eating it's rabbit & watching them.
Winter snowfly on the open rolling crop hills, no cover. You have to go to them.
Still kicking this dead horse /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
During harsh Winter weather. Some of the local coyotes, hunker into an old den or road culvert. Longest time period I've seen this is over a 2-day stretch[holed-up]. I look @ every culvert I pass, for tracks, in or out. Sometimes, I'll get out & look into one with my flashlight whether I see tracks or not. Especially, the next day after a blizzard.
Never seen 1-Red, this last Winter. Three winter's ago. One Red holed up in a 10' section of un-used galvanized tube thrown in the ditch. Coyote country all around. That Red, never ventured out during the day, for two Winter's.
Last Winter no sign of him. I suspect a coyote caught him out in the open.
Coyotes, don't mind the cold & wind. As much as they do blowing snow.
During harsh Winter weather. Some of the local coyotes, hunker into an old den or road culvert. Longest time period I've seen this is over a 2-day stretch[holed-up]. I look @ every culvert I pass, for tracks, in or out. Sometimes, I'll get out & look into one with my flashlight whether I see tracks or not. Especially, the next day after a blizzard.
Never seen 1-Red, this last Winter. Three winter's ago. One Red holed up in a 10' section of un-used galvanized tube thrown in the ditch. Coyote country all around. That Red, never ventured out during the day, for two Winter's.
Last Winter no sign of him. I suspect a coyote caught him out in the open.
Coyotes, don't mind the cold & wind. As much as they do blowing snow.
Initially what interested me is on other's opinions/observations, Redfrog.
Is how "the same coyotes" behave a little differently in other geographical area's. You know...a coyote is a...coyote /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
This word habituated IMO, swings both ways. As in habituated & little fear of humans. Or habituated & a heightened alert coyote. That hangs from afar or runs away @ 1st sight of humans. Even from a great distance of a percieved threat.
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This coyote in the above story. Laid down eating that rabbit. 50' away or so from that farmer & his wife[according to the story that farmer told me]. Why? I ask.
Perhaps, that coyote has never been shot @ from a tractor or combine. Would be my guess. Or atleast from that perticular combine.
Like some other folks on here. When I hunt alone. I often just watch them awhile from a distance. Their behavior & abililites, intrigues me to no end. I'm in no hurry these days.
Is how "the same coyotes" behave a little differently in other geographical area's. You know...a coyote is a...coyote /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
This word habituated IMO, swings both ways. As in habituated & little fear of humans. Or habituated & a heightened alert coyote. That hangs from afar or runs away @ 1st sight of humans. Even from a great distance of a percieved threat.
-----------------
This coyote in the above story. Laid down eating that rabbit. 50' away or so from that farmer & his wife[according to the story that farmer told me]. Why? I ask.
Perhaps, that coyote has never been shot @ from a tractor or combine. Would be my guess. Or atleast from that perticular combine.
Like some other folks on here. When I hunt alone. I often just watch them awhile from a distance. Their behavior & abililites, intrigues me to no end. I'm in no hurry these days.
silencerS8
New member
Quote:
How about Male -vs- Female coyotes? We killed 21 coyotes in Idaho, last time I was there. 19 of them where males? Any speculations why? That would make a good new thread.
Tony,
I recall in a canine breeding class I took many moons ago the vet stated to have more males in the litter try to breed the [beeep] early in the heat cycle...
seriously lol..
I'm not sure if there's any truth to this or not, nor can I find anything on the net to back it up and its the only time I've heard it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
How about Male -vs- Female coyotes? We killed 21 coyotes in Idaho, last time I was there. 19 of them where males? Any speculations why? That would make a good new thread.
Tony,
I recall in a canine breeding class I took many moons ago the vet stated to have more males in the litter try to breed the [beeep] early in the heat cycle...
seriously lol..I'm not sure if there's any truth to this or not, nor can I find anything on the net to back it up and its the only time I've heard it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Redfrog
Moderator
Kirby, I do think a "coyote is a coyote" regardless of where he is. By that I mean there are some things that will trigger a response in a coyote regardless of where you are. Will all stimuli work all the time, I don't think so.
Although coyote behavior is intiguing to watch, I'm more interested in why a certain stimulus evkes a certain response.
Going back to a coyote running from a pickup truck. What triggered him to run? Even if he was shot at. If he wasn't hit, why run? The noise?? I think they are exposed to noise from other sources without kicking into high gear.
As I said I've seen them ignore bird cannons and still run from the sight of a pickup /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Eastern coyotes vs. western coyotes. Members here say howling doesn't work. Coyotes in the east are more nocturnal. They are smarter. There is a lot more pressure from hunters on the eastern coyote. Populations are smaller.
I'm not sure why more coyotes aren't killed in the east. It says a lot for the coyote wgen the pressure on him is so great and yet the numbers of coyotes is increasing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Although coyote behavior is intiguing to watch, I'm more interested in why a certain stimulus evkes a certain response.
Going back to a coyote running from a pickup truck. What triggered him to run? Even if he was shot at. If he wasn't hit, why run? The noise?? I think they are exposed to noise from other sources without kicking into high gear.
As I said I've seen them ignore bird cannons and still run from the sight of a pickup /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Eastern coyotes vs. western coyotes. Members here say howling doesn't work. Coyotes in the east are more nocturnal. They are smarter. There is a lot more pressure from hunters on the eastern coyote. Populations are smaller.
I'm not sure why more coyotes aren't killed in the east. It says a lot for the coyote wgen the pressure on him is so great and yet the numbers of coyotes is increasing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
browning204
New member
coyotes in the east are more nocturnal yes I agree. There is alot more pressure from hunters on coyotes in the east, I don't agree completely. There is alot more pressure on coyotes in the east. It is not from hunters more or less but from just every day life. Roads, housing developments, human interaction such as hikers, 4-wheelers, cross country ski'ers and so on.
Coyote hunting isn't real popular around here, I speak for my area as I know this area. But still coyotes around here have gone mostly nocturnal.
As I said in another post, for the first time EVER I saw a coyote in a road during daylight about 1 week ago. I have heard of other encounters in my area but I first consider the source.
The population still rises, yes I agree but consider this, if the coyotes have been nocturnal for a period of time, won't the young be raised and taught to be the same way?
For every coyote that is seen in broad daylight in the east, how many dozens or hundreds go unseen? The coyote that was seen was just more brave?? Is it tame, I doubt it.
Coyotes are very adaptable animals, so yes even though pressured they simply alter their habits and behaviour and still manage to thrive.
Give it some time, maybe 5 years and our numbers will be up and then the eastern guys will reap the benefits.
Easterns are smarter? That is debateable, don't forget and again I stress MY AREA, it is proven by many many studies that the North Eastern coyotes have Red wolf DNA. Does that make them smarter? I don't know but it does make them different in some ways.
I talked to Rich Higgins for an hour and a half today and that was part of our talk. He solidified my beliefs on the matter and If anyone knows the behaviour of these animals it is him and I trust his knowledge.
Redfrog, I don't understand the last sentence of your post, please explain. Are you saying we are bad hunters?
Coyote hunting isn't real popular around here, I speak for my area as I know this area. But still coyotes around here have gone mostly nocturnal.
As I said in another post, for the first time EVER I saw a coyote in a road during daylight about 1 week ago. I have heard of other encounters in my area but I first consider the source.
The population still rises, yes I agree but consider this, if the coyotes have been nocturnal for a period of time, won't the young be raised and taught to be the same way?
For every coyote that is seen in broad daylight in the east, how many dozens or hundreds go unseen? The coyote that was seen was just more brave?? Is it tame, I doubt it.
Coyotes are very adaptable animals, so yes even though pressured they simply alter their habits and behaviour and still manage to thrive.
Give it some time, maybe 5 years and our numbers will be up and then the eastern guys will reap the benefits.
Easterns are smarter? That is debateable, don't forget and again I stress MY AREA, it is proven by many many studies that the North Eastern coyotes have Red wolf DNA. Does that make them smarter? I don't know but it does make them different in some ways.
I talked to Rich Higgins for an hour and a half today and that was part of our talk. He solidified my beliefs on the matter and If anyone knows the behaviour of these animals it is him and I trust his knowledge.
Redfrog, I don't understand the last sentence of your post, please explain. Are you saying we are bad hunters?
Redfrog,
The root of my point is. They are a "coyote"...but do act differently to some external stimuli's. I believe, due to their environment.
Like humans, very simmular, but different behaviors.
Some callers'/hunters have had them close, yet that coyote doesn't see the caller/hunter. While other coyote can/do see the hunter, even when that hunter is camo'd. Why the difference? I belive it's due to their[coyote's] specific environment & experience's.
One example;
The large Gray, that I spoke of previously. I stalked in slowly & quietly from a very large busy & noisy cattle farm. Towards that coyote. Wind, was quartering into & across my face 20mph [est]. I purposly watch where I plant each foot & step lightly, listening/feeling for noise under my feet. As I got closer to that coyote. I snapped a couple short bean stubble.
I went to crawl mode, a large hill, seperated that coyote & I. I crawled slow & methodical. I paused....a few minutes. A distant train came down it's track, horn honking. I moved forward. As I crested the hill top. That coyote was boring a hole in me.
The coyote, no doubt. Picked out that lone noise, from out of all the other background noise. Responce = high alert. How or why did that coyote associate that 1-noise from all the other noise? Remarkable.
The root of my point is. They are a "coyote"...but do act differently to some external stimuli's. I believe, due to their environment.
Like humans, very simmular, but different behaviors.
Some callers'/hunters have had them close, yet that coyote doesn't see the caller/hunter. While other coyote
One example;
The large Gray, that I spoke of previously. I stalked in slowly & quietly from a very large busy & noisy cattle farm. Towards that coyote. Wind, was quartering into & across my face 20mph [est]. I purposly watch where I plant each foot & step lightly, listening/feeling for noise under my feet. As I got closer to that coyote. I snapped a couple short bean stubble.
I went to crawl mode, a large hill, seperated that coyote & I. I crawled slow & methodical. I paused....a few minutes. A distant train came down it's track, horn honking. I moved forward. As I crested the hill top. That coyote was boring a hole in me.
The coyote, no doubt. Picked out that lone noise, from out of all the other background noise. Responce = high alert. How or why did that coyote associate that 1-noise from all the other noise? Remarkable.
Rich Cronk
New member
Red Frog said: "Although coyote behavior is intiguing to watch, I'm more interested in why a certain stimulus evkes a certain response.
Going back to a coyote running from a pickup truck. What triggered him to run? Even if he was shot at. If he wasn't hit, why run? The noise?? I think they are exposed to noise from other sources without kicking into high gear.
As I said I've seen them ignore bird cannons and still run from the sight of a pickup"
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Ahh Buffalo chips!!!! Even a GREEN frog knows that a bird cannon won't kill him, but 700 of his friends got mashed by trucks as they merrily hopped across a public road down by the lake. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Going back to a coyote running from a pickup truck. What triggered him to run? Even if he was shot at. If he wasn't hit, why run? The noise?? I think they are exposed to noise from other sources without kicking into high gear.
As I said I've seen them ignore bird cannons and still run from the sight of a pickup"
--------------------------------------
Ahh Buffalo chips!!!! Even a GREEN frog knows that a bird cannon won't kill him, but 700 of his friends got mashed by trucks as they merrily hopped across a public road down by the lake. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
browning204
New member
coyotes can listen to 10 noises at one and process each noise by themselves.
GEORGE ACKLEY
New member
Quote:
I'm not sure why more coyotes aren't killed in the east. It says a lot for the coyote wgen the pressure on him is so great and yet the numbers of coyotes is increasing.
I am one that believes that pressure is what helps them thrive..
as for coyotes being killed in the east well we kill 20,000 a Year here in PA
I'm not sure why more coyotes aren't killed in the east. It says a lot for the coyote wgen the pressure on him is so great and yet the numbers of coyotes is increasing.
I am one that believes that pressure is what helps them thrive..
as for coyotes being killed in the east well we kill 20,000 a Year here in PA
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browning204
New member
""I am one that believes that pressure is what helps them thrive""
George can you explain this, I find it interesting!!
George can you explain this, I find it interesting!!
Quote:
Although coyote behavior is intiguing to watch, I'm more interested in why a certain stimulus evkes a certain response...
Exactly. This is what we should all strive for. Patterning coyotes can be done and understanding why when and where is the beginning of that. The pattern may only last for a day or it could even be frequently repeated behavior. Figuring out which is which is the fun part.
Quote:
Eastern coyotes vs. western coyotes. Members here say howling doesn't work. Coyotes in the east are more nocturnal. They are smarter. There is a lot more pressure from hunters on the eastern coyote. Populations are smaller.
Whoever said howling doesn't work in the East is off their rocker. Howling works great if you know what you are doing.
Coyotes in the East that are around large population centers and high pressure, of any sort, like many other places are VERY nocturnal. Coyotes are Crepuscular by nature. How much more pressure would it take to make them completely nocturnal? The county I live in has 1,300 people per sq mile. Some places have even higher than that. Do the math.
As for being smarter I don't think so but then I have never IQ tested the two.
Most of the pressure, I don't think, comes directly from predator callers. More of it is indirect pressure from deer, rabbit and upland bird hunters.
The population is smaller in a sense. The population of "protected" coyotes is growing rapidly. The population of huntable coyotes is dismal at best. There are patches of huntable coyotes but gaining access to them is MUCH harder than out West. The population is high in some of the farming areas but is somewhat protected and welcomed by the crop farmers because they control "pests" such as deer, woodchuck and turkey. The other high density areas are in Urban centers where the discharge of a firearm is illegal. These coyotes are pressured by people just being people. They are no easier to call than their "wild" huntable cousins, though.
At certain times during the year coyotes in the East are very callable though. They do come to the call during the day. They do everything that a Western coyote will do but not as often. You have to know the who what and where to get to them. Which all comes down to Homework.
Quote:
I'm not sure why more coyotes aren't killed in the east. It says a lot for the coyote wgen the pressure on him is so great and yet the numbers of coyotes is increasing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
There are a lot of coyotes killed in the East. They are being killed by a lot of different people, though. One single guy can't stack the numbers up like out West. Is it for a lack of trying? I don't think so. Lack of talent? No. It's a numbers and location game over here just as over there. Different numbers and locations.
Although coyote behavior is intiguing to watch, I'm more interested in why a certain stimulus evkes a certain response...
Exactly. This is what we should all strive for. Patterning coyotes can be done and understanding why when and where is the beginning of that. The pattern may only last for a day or it could even be frequently repeated behavior. Figuring out which is which is the fun part.
Quote:
Eastern coyotes vs. western coyotes. Members here say howling doesn't work. Coyotes in the east are more nocturnal. They are smarter. There is a lot more pressure from hunters on the eastern coyote. Populations are smaller.
Whoever said howling doesn't work in the East is off their rocker. Howling works great if you know what you are doing.
Coyotes in the East that are around large population centers and high pressure, of any sort, like many other places are VERY nocturnal. Coyotes are Crepuscular by nature. How much more pressure would it take to make them completely nocturnal? The county I live in has 1,300 people per sq mile. Some places have even higher than that. Do the math.
As for being smarter I don't think so but then I have never IQ tested the two.
Most of the pressure, I don't think, comes directly from predator callers. More of it is indirect pressure from deer, rabbit and upland bird hunters.
The population is smaller in a sense. The population of "protected" coyotes is growing rapidly. The population of huntable coyotes is dismal at best. There are patches of huntable coyotes but gaining access to them is MUCH harder than out West. The population is high in some of the farming areas but is somewhat protected and welcomed by the crop farmers because they control "pests" such as deer, woodchuck and turkey. The other high density areas are in Urban centers where the discharge of a firearm is illegal. These coyotes are pressured by people just being people. They are no easier to call than their "wild" huntable cousins, though.
At certain times during the year coyotes in the East are very callable though. They do come to the call during the day. They do everything that a Western coyote will do but not as often. You have to know the who what and where to get to them. Which all comes down to Homework.
Quote:
I'm not sure why more coyotes aren't killed in the east. It says a lot for the coyote wgen the pressure on him is so great and yet the numbers of coyotes is increasing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
There are a lot of coyotes killed in the East. They are being killed by a lot of different people, though. One single guy can't stack the numbers up like out West. Is it for a lack of trying? I don't think so. Lack of talent? No. It's a numbers and location game over here just as over there. Different numbers and locations.
browning204
New member
well said smithers!!!
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
browning 204, I had a coyote run up to about 25 feet from my caller that was on it's highest volume. I was off to the side a little and behind the call in the shade of a Juniper. I had my finger on the safety of my Rem 11-87 and clicked it to the off position. The coyote heard the safety and turned his head and looked right at me. I couldn't believe it, my old caller is very loud, I don't get in front of the speaker because it flat hearts my ears when it is on the highest volume. It just amazes me that this coyote heard that safety click with that much noise blasting at him from 25 ft away.
GEORGE ACKLEY
New member
I will sum up my thoughts but Iam not going to get into a lot,
Coyote are first and foremost survivor's,
Why are there populations now moving so rapidly here , pressure they are being forces to move on do to human activity,
Coyote Do not run in packs,,,,,, they run in family units and this unit will brake up at some point in the year and some coyotes will move off to form there own family groups. because of homes and people moving in to more and more areas around are state .it just making the coyote move grater distances to fined there own home Territories, to make it short are communities are growing faster and faster witch is in my opinion why are coyote population is growing so fast here in PA. they are forced to move on to new area.
the more they disperse the grater there numbers grow!
I also believe that it is inherently in he genes for them to survive, to make it short ,
every thing that go's on around them in there environment has some effect on there breeding ,, if coyote numbers are low the food sources are better, so the heather the female the more pups she will have.
I will go as far as to say, I don't think all females in the family unit get bred each year, and if they need to keep there unit nubers up,, do to low population. they will breed more females .Females that might not have had a litter this year will.
hope this makes some scents,,,
and this is just how i look at it's not facts just my opinion
Coyote are first and foremost survivor's,
Why are there populations now moving so rapidly here , pressure they are being forces to move on do to human activity,
Coyote Do not run in packs,,,,,, they run in family units and this unit will brake up at some point in the year and some coyotes will move off to form there own family groups. because of homes and people moving in to more and more areas around are state .it just making the coyote move grater distances to fined there own home Territories, to make it short are communities are growing faster and faster witch is in my opinion why are coyote population is growing so fast here in PA. they are forced to move on to new area.
the more they disperse the grater there numbers grow!
I also believe that it is inherently in he genes for them to survive, to make it short ,
every thing that go's on around them in there environment has some effect on there breeding ,, if coyote numbers are low the food sources are better, so the heather the female the more pups she will have.
I will go as far as to say, I don't think all females in the family unit get bred each year, and if they need to keep there unit nubers up,, do to low population. they will breed more females .Females that might not have had a litter this year will.
hope this makes some scents,,,
and this is just how i look at it's not facts just my opinion
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GEORGE ACKLEY
New member
Is a Eastern coyote the same as a western coyote? Yes!
Do eastern coyotes in Pennsylvania react to call's as they do out west? Yes
Why do some coyotes react different in different areas, Food sources, coyotes population? time of year.
Are eastern PA coyotes harder to call then out west, No? any coyote can be hard to call if all factors are the same in each area.no matter what state.
Will howling work? it will work anywhere in the country as long as coyotes in that area are receptive to howling.
Are all coyote receptive to howling ? I don't believe so. do to numbers, and food source.
Are all coyotes receptive to howling at breeding time? I believe so
Are western callers better because they harvest more coyotes? Not bye a long shot,,, if you in a area that coyotes are not receptive to calling no matter were you live they will be hard to call and kill.
that's how i feel
SO IS THE GLOBE CONTEST ON YET ???????????????????????????
So please you guys that hunt privet ranches & guys that hunt places were there are 3 guys out calling 200 square miles, don't think you the know all of coyote killing, don't think you can do that everywhere..
if so there's a bunk awaiting you in my camp any time you like to try your skills.
NOW I AM DONE WITH THIS BUDDYBOY'S /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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