While I don't hunt dense woods often, I have hunted some pretty thick brush and forested areas. I typically run the same basic stand. Exceptions are: 1 - I don't have to walk as far because it's easier to hide the ride (and its sound) in thicker foliage; 2 - I start out much quieter on the call because a critter could be closer (very important to be ready; 3 - I look much harder for a good downwind opening to catch those that try to circle for a sniff (or a barrier to discourage that kind of behavior); 4 - I may stay quieter overall and run stands closer together if there's good sign (in the open desert I put a mile or so between stands).
Timing of your calling sequence
- Thread starter NevadaZielmeister
- Start date
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
I don't use sound sequences because I don't want the sound to change if I have a coyote running my way.
I also have a distress sound playing almost 100% of the time. If I am using coyote vocal sounds I will go with gaps of no sound.
If you play a distress sound for 5 minutes and then go silent for 5 minutes you maybe just giving your e-caller a break for 5 minutes. If nothing heard your distress sound for the first 5 minutes then you are no longer calling during the 5 minutes of silence.
During your 5 minute gaps of silence coyotes may move into a area or up on a ridge or hill top where they could have heard your sound if it was still playing.
I also have a distress sound playing almost 100% of the time. If I am using coyote vocal sounds I will go with gaps of no sound.
If you play a distress sound for 5 minutes and then go silent for 5 minutes you maybe just giving your e-caller a break for 5 minutes. If nothing heard your distress sound for the first 5 minutes then you are no longer calling during the 5 minutes of silence.
During your 5 minute gaps of silence coyotes may move into a area or up on a ridge or hill top where they could have heard your sound if it was still playing.
Originally Posted By: derbyacresbobI don't use sound sequences because I don't want the sound to change if I have a coyote running my way.
That's a good clarification Bob. I don't run preset sequences either. I change sounds manually. Of course, that doesn't prevent spooking an incoming coyote that I didn't see. But it sure prevent spooking one I know is headed my way. If said incoming coyote hangs up though, or seems to lose interest, I'll sure change it up a bit. I have seen bored looking coyotes, or even those starting to drift off, get excited about a new sound and head in.
That's a good clarification Bob. I don't run preset sequences either. I change sounds manually. Of course, that doesn't prevent spooking an incoming coyote that I didn't see. But it sure prevent spooking one I know is headed my way. If said incoming coyote hangs up though, or seems to lose interest, I'll sure change it up a bit. I have seen bored looking coyotes, or even those starting to drift off, get excited about a new sound and head in.
YoteFoxBobcat
New member
All great advice guys, thanks for sharing
NevadaZielmeister
Member
Thank you all for your insight and input. I really appreciate it. Just built up my 22-250 rifle and will get out this Sunday. I plan to employ the techniques discussed here. Special thanks to my friend Doyal and to the Foxpro Staffer Bob. Wow, what great hunters to learn from!!
tawnoper
Member
Originally Posted By: TrapShooter12I walk only as far as I have to. I have pulled up to a hill walked over the top about thirty feet setup and within thirty seconds had a coyote down. I run my caller continuously for ten minutes. I turn my caller up almost as loud as it will go.
You will get hard charges coming in up to four and a half minutes after that it will be lurkers up to the seven minute mark. After the seven minutes your lucky if one comes in (not saying one won't come in). So ten minutes I'm outta there.
This is me ^
Pretty much how I do things, except I usually wait 12 minutes. No particular reason. I'd look at my watch at the beginning of the stand and be thinking of my next stand around 10 minutes. When I did the majority of my hunting, remote ecallers were not available so most of our stands were hand calls. I think a lot of people over think things. Call sounds, sequence, decoys etc. are usually low on the list. If you're in good country the basic fundamentals will do you more good. Sneak into your stand and sit down. Try to stay low. Don't walk all over out in front of your stand. Sit someplace you can see a bit. If you can keep the sun behind you it makes it easier to see approaching animals. Was really common to spot approaching coyotes after two or three wails on the call. I agree, quantity over quality...you usually will call in more coyotes in the 7 minute window. Better to keep hunting in that time frame. JMO.
You will get hard charges coming in up to four and a half minutes after that it will be lurkers up to the seven minute mark. After the seven minutes your lucky if one comes in (not saying one won't come in). So ten minutes I'm outta there.
This is me ^
Pretty much how I do things, except I usually wait 12 minutes. No particular reason. I'd look at my watch at the beginning of the stand and be thinking of my next stand around 10 minutes. When I did the majority of my hunting, remote ecallers were not available so most of our stands were hand calls. I think a lot of people over think things. Call sounds, sequence, decoys etc. are usually low on the list. If you're in good country the basic fundamentals will do you more good. Sneak into your stand and sit down. Try to stay low. Don't walk all over out in front of your stand. Sit someplace you can see a bit. If you can keep the sun behind you it makes it easier to see approaching animals. Was really common to spot approaching coyotes after two or three wails on the call. I agree, quantity over quality...you usually will call in more coyotes in the 7 minute window. Better to keep hunting in that time frame. JMO.
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tawnoper
Member
Originally Posted By: DesertRam
This used to be my general thought as well, but this year has proved different. Since October 14 I have logged 44 stands (and probably a few more that I didn't put in my log). On those stands I have called in 19 coyotes and one fox. Of those 20 observed called-in animals, only four showed up in less than seven minutes. 12 have taken ~10 minutes or longer. Four of the 10 took longer than 15 minutes to show. I used to be a "12 to 15 minutes on stand" kind of guy. This year's results have caused me to rethink that. If I bailed at seven minutes, I would have missed 80% of what I've gotten. Shutting down at 10 minutes would have cost me at least half of this year's take. Even 15 minutes, my old stand-by, would have reduced my take by 20%. Based on these results, I now run 18 to 20 minutes, and maybe even longer if the area looks "catty."
Definitely guys should do what works for them, confidence plays a part. I'd imagine if you sat in one place long enough you'd eventually call one in on every stand. I sometimes will extend my stands as well. The last stand of the day is usually a long one, when I know daylight is fading I'll sometimes hang out until last light. Or, sometimes if it's a nice looking stand and I really expect to see something I'll hang tight. Through the years I've called in way more within the first 10 minutes than after so after 10 minutes I get impatient and want to move. I'm the same way fishing...I could never lob a hunk of bait out and wait, I'd go crazy lol.
This used to be my general thought as well, but this year has proved different. Since October 14 I have logged 44 stands (and probably a few more that I didn't put in my log). On those stands I have called in 19 coyotes and one fox. Of those 20 observed called-in animals, only four showed up in less than seven minutes. 12 have taken ~10 minutes or longer. Four of the 10 took longer than 15 minutes to show. I used to be a "12 to 15 minutes on stand" kind of guy. This year's results have caused me to rethink that. If I bailed at seven minutes, I would have missed 80% of what I've gotten. Shutting down at 10 minutes would have cost me at least half of this year's take. Even 15 minutes, my old stand-by, would have reduced my take by 20%. Based on these results, I now run 18 to 20 minutes, and maybe even longer if the area looks "catty."
Definitely guys should do what works for them, confidence plays a part. I'd imagine if you sat in one place long enough you'd eventually call one in on every stand. I sometimes will extend my stands as well. The last stand of the day is usually a long one, when I know daylight is fading I'll sometimes hang out until last light. Or, sometimes if it's a nice looking stand and I really expect to see something I'll hang tight. Through the years I've called in way more within the first 10 minutes than after so after 10 minutes I get impatient and want to move. I'm the same way fishing...I could never lob a hunk of bait out and wait, I'd go crazy lol.
Originally Posted By: tawnoperThrough the years I've called in way more within the first 10 minutes than after so after 10 minutes I get impatient and want to move. I'm the same way fishing...I could never lob a hunk of bait out and wait, I'd go crazy lol.
Yep, me too. I always figured I would kill more (coyotes at least) by making more stands than by calling longer. Historically, I think that has been the case. That's why this season has been both strange and a little frustrating. I'd rather be up and moving, since we all know the grass is greener on the other side.
Yep, me too. I always figured I would kill more (coyotes at least) by making more stands than by calling longer. Historically, I think that has been the case. That's why this season has been both strange and a little frustrating. I'd rather be up and moving, since we all know the grass is greener on the other side.
NevadaZielmeister
Member
So far follow up, I did get out yesterday (Sunday). I believe I was able to call in 2 coyotes, but they got in behind me downwind. The area I was hunting had a lot of pressure from other hunters over the years, so I suspect that these Coyotes were pretty smart and well educated about e-callers. I found tracks behind me and this was on the stand in which I used some custom calls from my friend Brian with Crooked Creek Custom Calls. They must have been interested in the new sound from the hand calls and came to investigate. I also found this area to be pretty difficult since most of the sage and bushes were very small, making my concealment difficult. I would guess that more coyotes came in without me knowing as they saw me before I had a chance to see them.
It would appear that my focus now should be better stand setup. I almost want to setup my stand facing down wind so I can see them come in. But I suspect each area has its own techniques. While it was a frustratingly long day out there (got lost actually) I learned some more things and appreciate the knowledge gained from experience. There really is no better way to learn than by trying and failing. I thank you all for your help on this subject.
It would appear that my focus now should be better stand setup. I almost want to setup my stand facing down wind so I can see them come in. But I suspect each area has its own techniques. While it was a frustratingly long day out there (got lost actually) I learned some more things and appreciate the knowledge gained from experience. There really is no better way to learn than by trying and failing. I thank you all for your help on this subject.
K-22hornet.
New member
Stand selection is very important, probably the most important aspect of calling.
NevadaZielmeister
Member
Yesterday I went to an area that I thought would have less hunting pressure, turns out there was more. I saw at least 3 other hunters in this new area. While I cannot be sure, I might have called to another hunter and then he replied with vocals. That was pretty disheartening and frankly I am becoming more and more discouraged. I have only called in coyotes once out of 50-60 stands our the years. My stand setup was pretty good yesterday.
From my reading, I understand that in high pressure areas, you need to switch to more coyote vocals. Is that correct? I believe I have been using prey distress too much in these areas. If coyote vocals are the way to go, then what is the proper sequence and types to use. I cannot imagine you just let a coyote locator to loop and loop, do you?
From my limited experience, I was thinking you try and tell a story to interest these more educated coyotes. Like a long howl, followed by some challs or even a yodel. I did buy some additional sounds from Foxpro, such as den heist and den mayhem. I only tried these once or twice, no luck. Since it is mating season now, wondering if female howls, yips, yodels might do the trick? I don't know.
Any help would be appreciated guys.
From my reading, I understand that in high pressure areas, you need to switch to more coyote vocals. Is that correct? I believe I have been using prey distress too much in these areas. If coyote vocals are the way to go, then what is the proper sequence and types to use. I cannot imagine you just let a coyote locator to loop and loop, do you?
From my limited experience, I was thinking you try and tell a story to interest these more educated coyotes. Like a long howl, followed by some challs or even a yodel. I did buy some additional sounds from Foxpro, such as den heist and den mayhem. I only tried these once or twice, no luck. Since it is mating season now, wondering if female howls, yips, yodels might do the trick? I don't know.
Any help would be appreciated guys.
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UncleHef-A.
New member
Getting stationed unseen and unheard is very important. Time calling is a bit of a feel thing. If a quiet day and the sound rolling far into some scrappy country I sit longer. Overall I'd say I average 15-20 minutes. When I have heard actual rabbits in distress, they usually don't stop screaming until it's over for them, hence when calling I call more than keep quiet. More sound doesn't hurt. Varying volume I feel helps.
I know, many situations for others are different.
To the poster from the wooded east.. Try making use of all the deer stands not in use during the calling season. Most deer hunters clear an adequate shooting lane or two. In northern MN there is no shortage of them, I'd imagine the same in your area?
Hef-A
I know, many situations for others are different.
To the poster from the wooded east.. Try making use of all the deer stands not in use during the calling season. Most deer hunters clear an adequate shooting lane or two. In northern MN there is no shortage of them, I'd imagine the same in your area?
Hef-A
204 AR
Well-known member
I've experienced having another caller answer my vocals, it's quite a coincidence for more than one caller to be in an area at the same time.
I think you most likely haven't gotten into a good population very often if at all. All this other stuff is important, but takes a back seat to being where the coyotes are. Calling can be tough this time of year, especially when fur prices re good. Not very many coyotes escape persecution right now.
I think you most likely haven't gotten into a good population very often if at all. All this other stuff is important, but takes a back seat to being where the coyotes are. Calling can be tough this time of year, especially when fur prices re good. Not very many coyotes escape persecution right now.
Originally Posted By: NevadaZielmeisterYesterday I went to an area that I thought would have less hunting pressure, turns out there was more. I saw at least 3 other hunters in this new area. While I cannot be sure, I might have called to another hunter and then he replied with vocals. That was pretty disheartening and frankly I am becoming more and more discouraged. I have only called in coyotes once out of 50-60 stands our the years. My stand setup was pretty good yesterday.
From my reading, I understand that in high pressure areas, you need to switch to more coyote vocals. Is that correct? I believe I have been using prey distress too much in these areas. If coyote vocals are the way to go, then what is the proper sequence and types to use. I cannot imagine you just let a coyote locator to loop and loop, do you?
From my limited experience, I was thinking you try and tell a story to interest these more educated coyotes. Like a long howl, followed by some challs or even a yodel. I did buy some additional sounds from Foxpro, such as den heist and den mayhem. I only tried these once or twice, no luck. Since it is mating season now, wondering if female howls, yips, yodels might do the trick? I don't know.
Any help would be appreciated guys.
First off, welcome to the insanity. Getting skunked comes with the territory. In my early years, we got skunked...a LOT! Comes with the territory. If you've only done 50-60 stands, well no offense intended, but you're not calling enough. On a typical day, I will call 10 stands typically. These days, I call in a coyote about every 3 stands or so...on AVERAGE. So sure, I will have days where I get skunked. But then I have days where I call in doubles, triples and quads on every stand. That balances out.
I usually call 12-18 minutes unless we make contact, then I am breaking down and going at least a mile and doing another stand. We call it carpet bombing. I do that until I feel the area is played out then I run to a new area and start all over again.
As for high pressure areas. It can happen that you might run into a predator hunter. It could also have been that you had coyotes actually calling back to you, I can't say because I didn't hear the calls. But are there possibly other hunters? You bet. With the popularity of hunting shows, every Tom, Dick and Harry can run out to Cabelas or Amazon, buy a caller, and BOOM...instant predator hunter. The good ones, learn. The rest, keep doing the same old things.
If you think that you are over playing prey calls, try something else. But don't change too many things all at once or you won't know what is/is not working. Don't overthink it. Plenty of REALLY good predator hunters get skunked from time to time. Big Al and FoxPro have put out videos where they got skunked...hats off to them for that. It happens.
I find that certain calls work better at certain times of the year. When it's cold, and they are hungry, roll on the prey calls.
During breeding/denning season, roll vocals. Do you keep them going? Depends. Sometimes I throw the howls out and go silent for several minutes. I may hear them calling back to me using the same kind of howl. If I get nothing, then I try another howl, and wait. A lot of times I see them "looking" for the howler. Sometimes I'll give them something else to listen to, like rodent squeaks while I am waiting. Other times I have just let the howls run, constantly, and found them standing there trying to figure out who is making all that noise.
In high pressure areas try using calls that they might not be hearing, such as rodent squeaks, bird calls, etc. I have used kitten calls around farm houses and it's payed off.
But at the end of the day, who really knows? I have asked EVERY coyote that I have shot and NONE of them have answered me as to why they came and what they were thinking before that 150gr soul stealer slammed into them.
From my reading, I understand that in high pressure areas, you need to switch to more coyote vocals. Is that correct? I believe I have been using prey distress too much in these areas. If coyote vocals are the way to go, then what is the proper sequence and types to use. I cannot imagine you just let a coyote locator to loop and loop, do you?
From my limited experience, I was thinking you try and tell a story to interest these more educated coyotes. Like a long howl, followed by some challs or even a yodel. I did buy some additional sounds from Foxpro, such as den heist and den mayhem. I only tried these once or twice, no luck. Since it is mating season now, wondering if female howls, yips, yodels might do the trick? I don't know.
Any help would be appreciated guys.
First off, welcome to the insanity. Getting skunked comes with the territory. In my early years, we got skunked...a LOT! Comes with the territory. If you've only done 50-60 stands, well no offense intended, but you're not calling enough. On a typical day, I will call 10 stands typically. These days, I call in a coyote about every 3 stands or so...on AVERAGE. So sure, I will have days where I get skunked. But then I have days where I call in doubles, triples and quads on every stand. That balances out.
I usually call 12-18 minutes unless we make contact, then I am breaking down and going at least a mile and doing another stand. We call it carpet bombing. I do that until I feel the area is played out then I run to a new area and start all over again.
As for high pressure areas. It can happen that you might run into a predator hunter. It could also have been that you had coyotes actually calling back to you, I can't say because I didn't hear the calls. But are there possibly other hunters? You bet. With the popularity of hunting shows, every Tom, Dick and Harry can run out to Cabelas or Amazon, buy a caller, and BOOM...instant predator hunter. The good ones, learn. The rest, keep doing the same old things.
If you think that you are over playing prey calls, try something else. But don't change too many things all at once or you won't know what is/is not working. Don't overthink it. Plenty of REALLY good predator hunters get skunked from time to time. Big Al and FoxPro have put out videos where they got skunked...hats off to them for that. It happens.
I find that certain calls work better at certain times of the year. When it's cold, and they are hungry, roll on the prey calls.
During breeding/denning season, roll vocals. Do you keep them going? Depends. Sometimes I throw the howls out and go silent for several minutes. I may hear them calling back to me using the same kind of howl. If I get nothing, then I try another howl, and wait. A lot of times I see them "looking" for the howler. Sometimes I'll give them something else to listen to, like rodent squeaks while I am waiting. Other times I have just let the howls run, constantly, and found them standing there trying to figure out who is making all that noise.
In high pressure areas try using calls that they might not be hearing, such as rodent squeaks, bird calls, etc. I have used kitten calls around farm houses and it's payed off.
But at the end of the day, who really knows? I have asked EVERY coyote that I have shot and NONE of them have answered me as to why they came and what they were thinking before that 150gr soul stealer slammed into them.
NevadaZielmeister
Member
Mo,
That is a really thoughtful reply and thank you. I will take those ideas into consideration and modify. I get the idea of not change too many things, kind of like reloading. You can never know which variable was the one that you changed to create success.
Thank you also for the ideas surrounding kittens and what to do regarding how to vocalize with coyotes. I am starting to get it and keep an open mind regarding everything. This is a challenging game and yes, I want to be successful. As it appears it is mating season now, I plan to run more vocals, maybe a female yodel, whimper? The FoxPro Shockwave is amazing and I may also buy a few more sounds. I love that thing.
I also learned that there was a competition in Reno with 66 teams last weekend running around. That must have impacted things around easy for sure. The top team bagged 10 coyotes. I think I will return to that area but use different calls.
My interest now swings to diaphragm calls since they seem to sound so good. I will hit my friend Brian up for one maybe.
Thank you all so much for your help and assistance. It was Einstein who stated: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results." Wise words from an incredible human being.
That is a really thoughtful reply and thank you. I will take those ideas into consideration and modify. I get the idea of not change too many things, kind of like reloading. You can never know which variable was the one that you changed to create success.
Thank you also for the ideas surrounding kittens and what to do regarding how to vocalize with coyotes. I am starting to get it and keep an open mind regarding everything. This is a challenging game and yes, I want to be successful. As it appears it is mating season now, I plan to run more vocals, maybe a female yodel, whimper? The FoxPro Shockwave is amazing and I may also buy a few more sounds. I love that thing.
I also learned that there was a competition in Reno with 66 teams last weekend running around. That must have impacted things around easy for sure. The top team bagged 10 coyotes. I think I will return to that area but use different calls.
My interest now swings to diaphragm calls since they seem to sound so good. I will hit my friend Brian up for one maybe.
Thank you all so much for your help and assistance. It was Einstein who stated: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results." Wise words from an incredible human being.
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Originally Posted By: NevadaZielmeisterMo,
That is a really thoughtful reply and thank you. I will take those ideas into consideration and modify. I get the idea of not change too many things, kind of like reloading. You can never know which variable was the one that you changed to create success.
Thank you also for the ideas surrounding kittens and what to do regarding how to vocalize with coyotes. I am starting to get it and keep an open mind regarding everything. This is a challenging game and yes, I want to be successful. As it appears it is mating season now, I plan to run more vocals, maybe a female yodel, whimper? The FoxPro Shockwave is amazing and I may also buy a few more sounds. I love that thing.
I also learned that there was a competition in Reno with 66 teams last weekend running around. That must have impacted things around easy for sure. The top team bagged 10 coyotes. I think I will return to that area but use different calls.
My interest now swings to diaphragm calls since they seem to sound so good. I will hit my friend Brian up for one maybe.
Thank you all so much for your help and assistance. It was Einstein who stated: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results." Wise words from an incredible human being.
You have some great thoughts there. I often use hand calls when I'm in areas that get a lot of pressure. I hate to admit that I get a kick out of calling coyotes in heavily pressured areas. Many years ago, I went out with Jeff, FW707, into an area around Las Cruces at the PM hunt. Unbeknownst to us, there was a predator hunting contest being held in the area. Well, we went to a spot, overlooking a water hole. I started calling and just a few minutes in I hear a shot and I see Jeff jumping up and down hooting and hollering. He nailed a coyote that I had called in. We grab up the coyote and head back to the trucks for photos and while we are shooting photos a couple of guys roll up. They were hunting the contest and had just called that stand less than an hour earlier. Oh, well. Guess we played the right music.
I call mainly public land. So I see a lot of pressured areas. I got a hand call from Casey Carver at the PM convention this year and I have been using that a lot to great effect. I mix that up with some crow calls and it's been working. So don't hesitate to give a hand call a try.
A female invitation or even a lone male howl is a good start. Don't forget puppy calls at the end of the stand, I always finish off a stand with puppies.
But hang in there. When you finally dial in, it is SO satisfying.
That is a really thoughtful reply and thank you. I will take those ideas into consideration and modify. I get the idea of not change too many things, kind of like reloading. You can never know which variable was the one that you changed to create success.
Thank you also for the ideas surrounding kittens and what to do regarding how to vocalize with coyotes. I am starting to get it and keep an open mind regarding everything. This is a challenging game and yes, I want to be successful. As it appears it is mating season now, I plan to run more vocals, maybe a female yodel, whimper? The FoxPro Shockwave is amazing and I may also buy a few more sounds. I love that thing.
I also learned that there was a competition in Reno with 66 teams last weekend running around. That must have impacted things around easy for sure. The top team bagged 10 coyotes. I think I will return to that area but use different calls.
My interest now swings to diaphragm calls since they seem to sound so good. I will hit my friend Brian up for one maybe.
Thank you all so much for your help and assistance. It was Einstein who stated: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results." Wise words from an incredible human being.
You have some great thoughts there. I often use hand calls when I'm in areas that get a lot of pressure. I hate to admit that I get a kick out of calling coyotes in heavily pressured areas. Many years ago, I went out with Jeff, FW707, into an area around Las Cruces at the PM hunt. Unbeknownst to us, there was a predator hunting contest being held in the area. Well, we went to a spot, overlooking a water hole. I started calling and just a few minutes in I hear a shot and I see Jeff jumping up and down hooting and hollering. He nailed a coyote that I had called in. We grab up the coyote and head back to the trucks for photos and while we are shooting photos a couple of guys roll up. They were hunting the contest and had just called that stand less than an hour earlier. Oh, well. Guess we played the right music.
I call mainly public land. So I see a lot of pressured areas. I got a hand call from Casey Carver at the PM convention this year and I have been using that a lot to great effect. I mix that up with some crow calls and it's been working. So don't hesitate to give a hand call a try.
A female invitation or even a lone male howl is a good start. Don't forget puppy calls at the end of the stand, I always finish off a stand with puppies.
But hang in there. When you finally dial in, it is SO satisfying.
Seebass
New member
20 minute max per stand.
I start every stand with Vole squeaks for 1 minute. Unless howling
I never stop playing sounds. I'll lower the volume a bit and then switch sounds.
I use FOXPITCH more and more to change the tone of each sound now.
After setting up I only wait as long as it takes to get comfortable before starting to call.
Wind means more than virtually anything else.
I start every stand with Vole squeaks for 1 minute. Unless howling
I never stop playing sounds. I'll lower the volume a bit and then switch sounds.
I use FOXPITCH more and more to change the tone of each sound now.
After setting up I only wait as long as it takes to get comfortable before starting to call.
Wind means more than virtually anything else.