Realistic Tripod Accuracy
- Thread starter Driven2tri24
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Driven2tri24
Member
Just with the Thermal so far. I too thought was the reticle I was using so I went to one of the other optional reticles that gives me a better point to "dissect" the hand warmer horizontally. It seems to be helping a bit also. It is tough chasing the illuminated pixels around in a thermal. Maybe it would help if I could find a more precision thermal source to aim at than a 2x3" handwarmer?
Originally Posted By: Driven2tri24 Maybe it would help if I could find a more precision thermal source to aim at than a 2x3" handwarmer?
Lots of little things can destroy a good group.
The older I get the harder it is to dissect a round aiming point. Not sure what reticle you are using but I find it more precise to use either a 2" square red paster and bracket one corner w/the crosshairs. Works equally well to bracket a round paster w/vertical crosshair touching one edge of the circle and horizontal touching bottom.
If your reticle covers too much or too little of the aiming point I find it much more difficult to shoot decent size groups.
Regards,
hm
Lots of little things can destroy a good group.
The older I get the harder it is to dissect a round aiming point. Not sure what reticle you are using but I find it more precise to use either a 2" square red paster and bracket one corner w/the crosshairs. Works equally well to bracket a round paster w/vertical crosshair touching one edge of the circle and horizontal touching bottom.
If your reticle covers too much or too little of the aiming point I find it much more difficult to shoot decent size groups.
Regards,
hm
If you want to eliminate a variable you could put a day optic on the rifle and you will quickly find out the variability the thermal adds, if any. Or, if you want to know about the tripod you could use a day setup that hammers for you and put it on top and see.
The handwarmer idea is one we’ve used and is a good idea. It works as far as I can tell, but i have found it really hard to quarter a hand warmer on a thermal at 200. I think it is actually easier to place a shot on a coyote than to sight in on a hand warmer.
The handwarmer idea is one we’ve used and is a good idea. It works as far as I can tell, but i have found it really hard to quarter a hand warmer on a thermal at 200. I think it is actually easier to place a shot on a coyote than to sight in on a hand warmer.
Driven2tri24
Member
I'm going to do as you guy's have suggested and use a day scoped rifle. I plan to zero my 25-06 this week and it shoots under an inch of bags at 200 yds pretty consistently. I will shoot a group at 200 and then try off the Tripod standing and see what what it does.
As far as the reticle and hand-warmer...The reticle I was using was a small 2.5 MOA crosshair that all of Pulsars have including my other NV Pulsar rifles(which also had horizontal groups). I switched to a post type reticle which comes to a very fine TIP at the end of the post, and I definitely have noticed an improvement just in doing that from the other 2.5 MOA crosshair. I think my eyesight see it as round dot more-so than an actual defined crosshair to dissect the target.
Chances are I'm going to find out that a day optic will not have the issue and it will be related to the Thermal/NV scopes and their reticle. I can say without a doubt the Thermal is the hardest to shoot consistently with, followed by the 2 Pulsar NV's I have so I'm confident a day optic will definitely be better regardless...Hopefully it will help me see if it's the Tripod, the scopes/reticles, or just me.
As far as the reticle and hand-warmer...The reticle I was using was a small 2.5 MOA crosshair that all of Pulsars have including my other NV Pulsar rifles(which also had horizontal groups). I switched to a post type reticle which comes to a very fine TIP at the end of the post, and I definitely have noticed an improvement just in doing that from the other 2.5 MOA crosshair. I think my eyesight see it as round dot more-so than an actual defined crosshair to dissect the target.
Chances are I'm going to find out that a day optic will not have the issue and it will be related to the Thermal/NV scopes and their reticle. I can say without a doubt the Thermal is the hardest to shoot consistently with, followed by the 2 Pulsar NV's I have so I'm confident a day optic will definitely be better regardless...Hopefully it will help me see if it's the Tripod, the scopes/reticles, or just me.
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
Has anyone tried something cold as a bullseye, set on black hot, to minimize the optical image distortion and be able to use a black reticle?(during the summer).
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limbhanger10
Active member
Driven..great advice above and I'll add my penny worth.
..I'm going to say that the tripod itself with the combination of ball head/death grip..is more than likely the issue from reading your posts. It can get the job "done"...but there are better which of course are more expensive options out there that are WAY more stable.
I personally am NOT a fan of ball heads and their balance to height axis..there are great quality heads out there..and there are crappy heads..I prefer a leveling head and never have had an issue with vertical compensation of shots due to angle...I think you're on the correct path by going with a leveling head...less moving parts.
The closer your gun is to the base plate of your tripod..the more stable it will be and the wider your base plate is the more stable your tripod will be and the less leg sections your tripod has the more stable(leg flex) it will be.
Second is the mounting issue....grip type, while they can hold fore end or hand guard secure ..just aren't the best options...they may be the only option one has for their firearm design..but it is what it is and accuracy generally will be suffice for vitals shots on coyote out to 200. And since you already have arca plate on a couple I would try to stick with those.
Another thing we do is put our back packs on the tripod hooks. My pack weighs anywhere from 5 to 12 pounds additional weight to the center balance of the tripod.
...and we have no issues with precision out past 300 with thermal with our set ups = Feisol Cretacs with RRS 2A-TU-SC leveling bases.
* I'll also add I try to stand as straight up and comfortable as possible..VERY little lean down to gun.
I put very little pressure into the tripod or on the gun.
My grip on the gun is also very relaxed to where my fingers are lightly on the grip(tactical grips).
Although odd way to shoot for the longer precision shot that may need to be made- My trigger finger rides the trigger guard to the trigger.
My free hand is on the lock lobes of leveling head/ base and I never "lock" to shoot a coyote.
..I'm going to say that the tripod itself with the combination of ball head/death grip..is more than likely the issue from reading your posts. It can get the job "done"...but there are better which of course are more expensive options out there that are WAY more stable.
I personally am NOT a fan of ball heads and their balance to height axis..there are great quality heads out there..and there are crappy heads..I prefer a leveling head and never have had an issue with vertical compensation of shots due to angle...I think you're on the correct path by going with a leveling head...less moving parts.
The closer your gun is to the base plate of your tripod..the more stable it will be and the wider your base plate is the more stable your tripod will be and the less leg sections your tripod has the more stable(leg flex) it will be.
Second is the mounting issue....grip type, while they can hold fore end or hand guard secure ..just aren't the best options...they may be the only option one has for their firearm design..but it is what it is and accuracy generally will be suffice for vitals shots on coyote out to 200. And since you already have arca plate on a couple I would try to stick with those.
Another thing we do is put our back packs on the tripod hooks. My pack weighs anywhere from 5 to 12 pounds additional weight to the center balance of the tripod.
...and we have no issues with precision out past 300 with thermal with our set ups = Feisol Cretacs with RRS 2A-TU-SC leveling bases.
* I'll also add I try to stand as straight up and comfortable as possible..VERY little lean down to gun.
I put very little pressure into the tripod or on the gun.
My grip on the gun is also very relaxed to where my fingers are lightly on the grip(tactical grips).
Although odd way to shoot for the longer precision shot that may need to be made- My trigger finger rides the trigger guard to the trigger.
My free hand is on the lock lobes of leveling head/ base and I never "lock" to shoot a coyote.
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Driven2tri24
Member
Thanks for the good advice. As I find myself using the tripod more and more I obviously want to invest in a better setup. I think a leveling head will be my next step forward and just focus on my 2 direct ARCA mount guns this season with it.
wildflights
Member
Originally Posted By: spotstalkshootHas anyone tried something cold as a bullseye, set on black hot, to minimize the optical image distortion and be able to use a black reticle?(during the summer).
Yes. An icecube in a plastic bag stapled to plywood. Cold does not expand like heat signatures. It is a much better target than a handwarmer or lit cigarette.
Ice cube is the white spot. .243 bullet hole is the black dot above the ice. Lit cigarette (end view) is the large black spot at top right. 100 yards- Pulsar Trail 2 XQ50
Yes. An icecube in a plastic bag stapled to plywood. Cold does not expand like heat signatures. It is a much better target than a handwarmer or lit cigarette.
Ice cube is the white spot. .243 bullet hole is the black dot above the ice. Lit cigarette (end view) is the large black spot at top right. 100 yards- Pulsar Trail 2 XQ50
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Kirsch
Active member
I don't use heat or cold to zero my thermals. Place a black shoot-n-see style target on a piece of cardboard or whatever you wish to shoot. Then cut a small piece of HVAC tape and make a small mark or a cross or whatever you like. Tilt the target back about 10°.
You don't have to use the shoot-n-see target but the contrast helps make it pop as well as allow you to see where your bullet hits if you don't hit the HVAC tape. When you make your shot, then take a small piece of hvac tape and cover the hole, go back to your thermal, move the reticle to the spot you marked, and your next shot should be pretty much dead-center zero.
I used to always use a cross as my aimpoint to allow for better alignment horizontally and vertically, but I don't typically use that much tape or take the time any longer.
You don't have to use the shoot-n-see target but the contrast helps make it pop as well as allow you to see where your bullet hits if you don't hit the HVAC tape. When you make your shot, then take a small piece of hvac tape and cover the hole, go back to your thermal, move the reticle to the spot you marked, and your next shot should be pretty much dead-center zero.
I used to always use a cross as my aimpoint to allow for better alignment horizontally and vertically, but I don't typically use that much tape or take the time any longer.
Driven2tri24
Member
The day before yesterday I tried using a 4" Lag Bolt and wrapped the handwarmer around it tied with zip ties leaving about an inch of threads to screw into my target board. It came out to about 1" diameter and it doesn't heat the board up.
Worked really nice.
After discovering the issue with the ball-head's panning mechanism etc. I broke down and upgraded my Tripod/Ballhead. I found a used Innorel 90 and Wrecking Ball Head for a really fair price that I could afford, and it should be here tomorrow.
In the meanwhile I've just reverted to my old ways of running a chair and sticks to kill a couple this weekend.
Worked really nice.
After discovering the issue with the ball-head's panning mechanism etc. I broke down and upgraded my Tripod/Ballhead. I found a used Innorel 90 and Wrecking Ball Head for a really fair price that I could afford, and it should be here tomorrow.
In the meanwhile I've just reverted to my old ways of running a chair and sticks to kill a couple this weekend.
Terry Lightle
Active member
Use Bog Adrenalin sticks instead of tripod,but as said earlier practice and lots of it is the key.I practice on a 3 inch steel circle at 230 yards.
Driven2tri24
Member
Got a better Tripod and Head this week. 3" groups have shrunk to 2.5" @ 200y with the Thermal. And thats on average, every now and then (about every 6-10th shot) I have an unexplained flier at 6" from bullseye left/right or high/low...just enough to mess up the decent groups I'm getting.
Originally Posted By: Driven2tri24What are your typical group sizes off of your Tripods at 100/200/300 yds. My groups at 200yds seem to double vs off bags, and I just wondered what kind of results the rest of you guys consistently get on average.
I expect to shoot at minimum 2 MOA off my tripod under field conditions (wind, not always knowing exact distance, rushed shots, odd angles, etc). That would result in 2" groups at 100 yards, 4" groups at 200 yards and 6" groups at 300 yards.
Under ideal practice conditions I have shot 1 MOA off a tripod but that is difficult to consistently reproduce under field conditions. If I have time to set up, I expect to shoot at least 1 MOA while prone under field conditions.
Basically I feel very comfortable killing just about any stationary coyote 200 yards or less off my tripod. I've killed and will continue to kill coyotes at 300+ yards with my tripod. I'm just not excited about taking longer shots when I think I have a decent chance of calling them much closer.
I expect to shoot at minimum 2 MOA off my tripod under field conditions (wind, not always knowing exact distance, rushed shots, odd angles, etc). That would result in 2" groups at 100 yards, 4" groups at 200 yards and 6" groups at 300 yards.
Under ideal practice conditions I have shot 1 MOA off a tripod but that is difficult to consistently reproduce under field conditions. If I have time to set up, I expect to shoot at least 1 MOA while prone under field conditions.
Basically I feel very comfortable killing just about any stationary coyote 200 yards or less off my tripod. I've killed and will continue to kill coyotes at 300+ yards with my tripod. I'm just not excited about taking longer shots when I think I have a decent chance of calling them much closer.
I've also found my POI to shift from different shooting positions and different rests. Some guns have a minimal POI shift from prone to tripod. An ultralight gun I have was off by 2" at 100 yards with a tripod compared to prone. Do the best you can to simulate field conditions when practicing and confirming zero for any gun you plan to shoot off a tripod.
It's been my experience that with different platforms a guy must maintain consistent recoil management... when using tripod I always set a single leg forward towards intended target.. and preload the rifle the same as I would when prone bipod shooting..
A lot happens in the time it takes for a bullet to travel the length of the barrel.
When precision counts I throw my sticks up under the rear of the rifle as if a rear bag when prone.. this method allows even my young son to hit sub minute targets even at extreme range.. just last weekend he was making first round hits at 964 yards.. my 2 cents..
A lot happens in the time it takes for a bullet to travel the length of the barrel.
When precision counts I throw my sticks up under the rear of the rifle as if a rear bag when prone.. this method allows even my young son to hit sub minute targets even at extreme range.. just last weekend he was making first round hits at 964 yards.. my 2 cents..