phantom predator caller.
- Thread starter TFC2223
- Start date
Yeah ! Ive called in fox, coyote and deer with mine...
For coyote I like to play the rodent squeaks alot and then press rabbit distress at the same time once in a while. If you do housecat in distress, (or Fawn) and rodent at the same time it sounds like a Jack Rabbit, kinda. Thats worked for me.
Same thing for fox, only switch rabbit with the bird distress.
The sound I use most with it is the rodent squeaks and I hit the play buttons often enough that the caller's auto-off doesnt engage. Half calling, half silence, always full volume.
I would avoid using the Howl and the thrashing noises on it though.
For coyote I like to play the rodent squeaks alot and then press rabbit distress at the same time once in a while. If you do housecat in distress, (or Fawn) and rodent at the same time it sounds like a Jack Rabbit, kinda. Thats worked for me.
Same thing for fox, only switch rabbit with the bird distress.
The sound I use most with it is the rodent squeaks and I hit the play buttons often enough that the caller's auto-off doesnt engage. Half calling, half silence, always full volume.
I would avoid using the Howl and the thrashing noises on it though.
hillbillyhunter
New member
i have a phantom predator call. the birds wont even reapond to its short and repetative sequences. when i call i like to make more of a theatre production out of the whole thing. sometimes using two or three different calls to dramaitze an imaginary battle and death. you cannot do it with the phantom. the battery gopes dead before i even get a couple stands finished when its cold also. several people i know say the wiring came loose.
how can you communicate with a coyote with a howl that says the same thing over and over???
good luck with your phantom. i like hand calls because your options are endless, however i do want to get one that will play tapes to hunt cats and bears.
how can you communicate with a coyote with a howl that says the same thing over and over???
good luck with your phantom. i like hand calls because your options are endless, however i do want to get one that will play tapes to hunt cats and bears.
Phylogenesis
New member
I have a Phantom coming in this afternoon. I would add a question for Robb or whoever - Bluedeacon is getting a Foxpro 16 with remote and I'll have this (why I got it). Will the two complement each other as I hoped when making this decision or is it going to be use one or the other but not both on a stand? We both also have hand calls to add to the noise confusion.
Hillbilly...
When you learn more about "effective" howling usage and how coyotes respond to challenge barks/howls... youll see that you really dont need/want more coyote vocalizations on the phantom. Use a howler and avoid challenge howling unless your dealing with a GROUP of coyotes rather than a single or pair.
(CLUE: singles and doubles arent likely to defend territory (den being an exception))
Almost any experienced coyote caller will tell you that if youre going to do any howling, use a handcall, period
My battery lasts a LONG time before needing change out... Duracell Ultra 9V are all I use in my Phantom and my RS MiniAmp eCaller as it does make a difference.
Dont ever leave the truck without two handcalls around your neck. Murphy's Law.
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Phlyo...
Always good to have a back up unit... using the two in conjuction would be interesting but Im not sure its necessary.... try it and let us know if you get a significant difference over time. Its been my experience that if you start "confusing them" they halt their approach and become very hesitant and wary.
I would think this may be used to an advatage as in stopping them from getting downwind to fast or getting them to stand still for a better shot window.
"Convincing" them is a bit different, and I think if you get mixtures of sights, sounds, and attractive smells (or lack of negative smells) you get better at enticing them closer to your calls position... at the same time, if what youre using as a site attractant doenst turn them on... once they see it... they may not come closer and just turn and leave...
Something to consider... Part of a coyote approaching a stand is that he feels comfortable in that hes not walking into bigger problems than he already has....
IE if theres a bunny in distress... why is that bunny in distress, dumb luck, a Hawk, a mountain lion... 4 other coytes that are hungry too ?
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Frankly the more Ive been doing this stuff, the more the KISS principle seems to be the way to go... but experimenting definitly is a way of breaking up the monotony and at times gaining smaller advantages that add-up over time.
FWIW..... cause opinions are like Camaros
When you learn more about "effective" howling usage and how coyotes respond to challenge barks/howls... youll see that you really dont need/want more coyote vocalizations on the phantom. Use a howler and avoid challenge howling unless your dealing with a GROUP of coyotes rather than a single or pair.
(CLUE: singles and doubles arent likely to defend territory (den being an exception))
Almost any experienced coyote caller will tell you that if youre going to do any howling, use a handcall, period
My battery lasts a LONG time before needing change out... Duracell Ultra 9V are all I use in my Phantom and my RS MiniAmp eCaller as it does make a difference.
Dont ever leave the truck without two handcalls around your neck. Murphy's Law.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Phlyo...
Always good to have a back up unit... using the two in conjuction would be interesting but Im not sure its necessary.... try it and let us know if you get a significant difference over time. Its been my experience that if you start "confusing them" they halt their approach and become very hesitant and wary.
I would think this may be used to an advatage as in stopping them from getting downwind to fast or getting them to stand still for a better shot window.
"Convincing" them is a bit different, and I think if you get mixtures of sights, sounds, and attractive smells (or lack of negative smells) you get better at enticing them closer to your calls position... at the same time, if what youre using as a site attractant doenst turn them on... once they see it... they may not come closer and just turn and leave...
Something to consider... Part of a coyote approaching a stand is that he feels comfortable in that hes not walking into bigger problems than he already has....
IE if theres a bunny in distress... why is that bunny in distress, dumb luck, a Hawk, a mountain lion... 4 other coytes that are hungry too ?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=
Frankly the more Ive been doing this stuff, the more the KISS principle seems to be the way to go... but experimenting definitly is a way of breaking up the monotony and at times gaining smaller advantages that add-up over time.
FWIW..... cause opinions are like Camaros
hillbillyhunter
New member
Rob, i've learned enough to know that i do want more coyote vocalizations on the caller. not all coyotes sound the same. not all howls mean the same thing. dont forget,....your trying to communicate. sometimes i howl trying to bring in a pack. some times i do a little "whinning" along with a distress and some brush shaking or even a broken stick to bring out an upset mother or a territorial male. you could come up with hundreds of senarios.
calling coyotes is just like anyother animal. their noises are communication and i just dont feel like the phantom communicates anything except noise. i'm sure others think its great. but for $200 i expect way more. my hunting buddies have all laughed at it.
calling coyotes is just like anyother animal. their noises are communication and i just dont feel like the phantom communicates anything except noise. i'm sure others think its great. but for $200 i expect way more. my hunting buddies have all laughed at it.
Dawgkilla
New member
I've had my Phantom for over a year and have YET to have anything respond . When I switched to mouth calls it was a complete turn around. I don't kill 'em every time I call but I darn near see or at least HEAR 'em every most of the time with my mouth calls. Recommend to anyone looking to buy an electronic caller (especially a Phantom) to SAVE there money and invest in mouth calls. MUCH better turn around on your money.
hillbillyhunter
New member
well Rob,....i really dont know, and to claim i did would be a display of total arrogance. but i do know that one dog might have a higher pitch voice than another. that alone opens up the possibilities quite a bit doesnt it? i also know that you can increase or decrease the length of the vocalization. i also know that i can add barks and yips. so basicly there'se more out there than the phantom predator call can ever offer.
i am willing to try a different electronic caller however.
i am willing to try a different electronic caller however.
There are limitations in using handcalls that using an eCaller can give you some serious advantages on. Advantages of an eCaller have been discussed to death.
Building your own caller, or getting something like the FoxPro where you can have YOUR sounds put on it is a great alternative if you arent satisfied with what the big companies have to offer...
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Hillbilly....
Lets say your having a custom eCaller built tomorrow to your "specs"... what and how many Coyote vocalizations do you think youll need on it?
(not a "loaded" question btw)
Building your own caller, or getting something like the FoxPro where you can have YOUR sounds put on it is a great alternative if you arent satisfied with what the big companies have to offer...
=-=-=-=-=-=--
Hillbilly....
Lets say your having a custom eCaller built tomorrow to your "specs"... what and how many Coyote vocalizations do you think youll need on it?
(not a "loaded" question btw)
hillbillyhunter
New member
Encore,...TFC2223 asked if anyone has had any success with the phantom caller. i replied with my answer which was no. and i explained the reason. now,...i understand that rob said to use the mouth howler. i agree that i can use one instead, and i do.
my argument is where rob said when i learn more about "effective usage of coyote vocalizations i wouldnt want more than one. i feel like i have learned enough to know that i want as many options as possible. that howl sequnce on the phantom is very weak. also my howling is very effective, and i always use more than one vocalization.
Rob,..i honestly dont know. maybe 5 or 6 would at least give a guy a few more options. you know thay sound your dog makes when you accidentaly step on his tail,...that high pitched cry,..that has been very effective whenhowls and other distress calls are all used to create a scene.
i'm not trying to put down all e-callers and i understand some of the benefits. i was simply answering TFC2223s question. i am very curios about the fox pro. i also have plans on buying a caller that will play tapes so i can distance myself from the call and let it play for extended lengths of time.
how does everyone else feel about the phantom caller????
my argument is where rob said when i learn more about "effective usage of coyote vocalizations i wouldnt want more than one. i feel like i have learned enough to know that i want as many options as possible. that howl sequnce on the phantom is very weak. also my howling is very effective, and i always use more than one vocalization.
Rob,..i honestly dont know. maybe 5 or 6 would at least give a guy a few more options. you know thay sound your dog makes when you accidentaly step on his tail,...that high pitched cry,..that has been very effective whenhowls and other distress calls are all used to create a scene.
i'm not trying to put down all e-callers and i understand some of the benefits. i was simply answering TFC2223s question. i am very curios about the fox pro. i also have plans on buying a caller that will play tapes so i can distance myself from the call and let it play for extended lengths of time.
how does everyone else feel about the phantom caller????
i like the compactness and light weight. For anyone who may only use an electronic caller some of the time, i think it's ideal. You won't sink extra money into it because it only uses a 9V battery and there are no tapes to collect and break. It fits in nicely with handcalling.
hillbillyhunter
New member
Encore,...i can see the benifits of using electronics and mouth calls together.also i have thought about using the phantom to try to lure a dog thats searching for me into bow range because i do move to much when i use mouth calls. does the fox pro have longer sequnces than the phantom??? iv'e many good things about it, but never actually seen one or heard one.
Hilbily,
I wasnt thinking of coyote distress when I was thinking of "Howls"... but youre right that is a coyote vocalization so it counts... its one that I use myself.
heres what Im presenting for discussion:
In real life, not what you hear from the Call manufacturers and the guys at the gunstore..
"Lone Howl"(on the highpitched side), "Group Yip" (for "locating") and "Coyote-distress".
My experience have shown to me that consistently... Lone Howl and Coyote Distress are the two main coyote vocalizations that you can positively use on a regular basis to attract a coyote to come in to your stand.
Aggresive Threat howls and barks... we all know about them, and they may have seemed to have worked once or twice. But... how often has it done the exact opposite of what we want ? Where the coyote hangs up, or simply walks away.
In my experience, using a threat howl has been a disadvantage far more than an advantage. Even that said, I still feel compelled (because it seemed to work once or twice) to threat howl a coyote that seems to be giving me a lot of "coyote flack" but the best it does consistently is stop the coyote for a second to look over his shoulder as he leaving the area.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
Electronic Callers shouldnt be a long-term substitute for knowing how to use a hand-call.
EDIT: took group-yip out of the equation, because the person I was thinking of when successfully using to bring in coyotes at first light, doesnt use the group-yip afterall.
I wasnt thinking of coyote distress when I was thinking of "Howls"... but youre right that is a coyote vocalization so it counts... its one that I use myself.
heres what Im presenting for discussion:
In real life, not what you hear from the Call manufacturers and the guys at the gunstore..
"Lone Howl"(on the highpitched side), "Group Yip" (for "locating") and "Coyote-distress".
My experience have shown to me that consistently... Lone Howl and Coyote Distress are the two main coyote vocalizations that you can positively use on a regular basis to attract a coyote to come in to your stand.
Aggresive Threat howls and barks... we all know about them, and they may have seemed to have worked once or twice. But... how often has it done the exact opposite of what we want ? Where the coyote hangs up, or simply walks away.
In my experience, using a threat howl has been a disadvantage far more than an advantage. Even that said, I still feel compelled (because it seemed to work once or twice) to threat howl a coyote that seems to be giving me a lot of "coyote flack" but the best it does consistently is stop the coyote for a second to look over his shoulder as he leaving the area.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
Electronic Callers shouldnt be a long-term substitute for knowing how to use a hand-call.
EDIT: took group-yip out of the equation, because the person I was thinking of when successfully using to bring in coyotes at first light, doesnt use the group-yip afterall.
hillbillyhunter
New member
i have to agree that threats generally send them running and barking the whole way home in my experience. and i dont use more than howls barks and whinning much. i have no experience with group yips. i almost always end up squeking before i shoot to. i learned that trick on this site. it works wonders. my problem with the phantom is this......i dont know what that noise is supposed to be. is it a group howl???? that seems way to aggressive to me. all the sequences are to short, you know what i mean. they sound un-natural after calling for 1/2 hour to an hour.
i do need a decoy. do you guys put scent on decoys??? what do you put on it??? maybe deer scent that i use to hunt the rut for muleys????
and unlike most of the posts i read here,..some of my dogs dont come in for 45 minutes. then others might appear in 45 seconds, so i stay for about ahn hour unless its one of my "known to be way productive spots".
i do need a decoy. do you guys put scent on decoys??? what do you put on it??? maybe deer scent that i use to hunt the rut for muleys????
and unlike most of the posts i read here,..some of my dogs dont come in for 45 minutes. then others might appear in 45 seconds, so i stay for about ahn hour unless its one of my "known to be way productive spots".
In Todays news.... interesting ?
Dogs May Be More Intelligent Than People May Think
Wed Jul 31, 3:48 PM ET
LONDON (Reuters) - Dogs are probably much more clever than most people think, according to a new study.
Scientists are convinced that dogs can count and researchers at the University of California Davis say they try to convey different messages through the pitch and pace of their barks.
"Animal behaviorists used to think their bark was simply a way of getting attention. Now a new study suggests that individual dogs have specific barks with a range of meanings," New Scientist magazine said on Wednesday.
Dogs usually use high-pitched single barks when they are separated from their owners and a lower, harsher superbark when strangers approach or the doorbell rings, according to Sophia Yin, an animal behaviorist at the university.
Playful woofs are high-pitched and unevenly spaced.
Dogs also know when they are being short-changed on treats because they have a basic mathematical ability which enables them to tell when one pile of objects is bigger than another.
"But to count, an animal has to recognize that each object in a set corresponds to a single number and that the last number in a sequence represents the total number of objects," New Scientist added.
Robert Young of Brazil's Pontifical Catholic University of Minas Gerais in Belo Horizonte, tested the theory on 11 mongrels using dog treats.
The canines were shown treats and then a screen was lowered and the goodies were left as they were or some were added or taken away.
If a treat was added or taken away the dogs looked at the treats much longer than they did when the goodies were not disturbed, presumably because they had done their sums and the numbers did not meet their expectations.
"Dogs are descended from wolves, which not only have a large neocortex -- the brain's center of reasoning -- but live in large social groups," the magazine said.
Young believes the mathematical ability could have been used to work out how many allies and enemies they had in a pack.
Dogs May Be More Intelligent Than People May Think
Wed Jul 31, 3:48 PM ET
LONDON (Reuters) - Dogs are probably much more clever than most people think, according to a new study.
Scientists are convinced that dogs can count and researchers at the University of California Davis say they try to convey different messages through the pitch and pace of their barks.
"Animal behaviorists used to think their bark was simply a way of getting attention. Now a new study suggests that individual dogs have specific barks with a range of meanings," New Scientist magazine said on Wednesday.
Dogs usually use high-pitched single barks when they are separated from their owners and a lower, harsher superbark when strangers approach or the doorbell rings, according to Sophia Yin, an animal behaviorist at the university.
Playful woofs are high-pitched and unevenly spaced.
Dogs also know when they are being short-changed on treats because they have a basic mathematical ability which enables them to tell when one pile of objects is bigger than another.
"But to count, an animal has to recognize that each object in a set corresponds to a single number and that the last number in a sequence represents the total number of objects," New Scientist added.
Robert Young of Brazil's Pontifical Catholic University of Minas Gerais in Belo Horizonte, tested the theory on 11 mongrels using dog treats.
The canines were shown treats and then a screen was lowered and the goodies were left as they were or some were added or taken away.
If a treat was added or taken away the dogs looked at the treats much longer than they did when the goodies were not disturbed, presumably because they had done their sums and the numbers did not meet their expectations.
"Dogs are descended from wolves, which not only have a large neocortex -- the brain's center of reasoning -- but live in large social groups," the magazine said.
Young believes the mathematical ability could have been used to work out how many allies and enemies they had in a pack.
Rich Cronk
New member
Hillbilly,
I agree that they could have picked a better howl for the coyote sound on a Phantom. Having said that, I also need to tell you that most of the recorded coyote howls you will find are really best used for "locating" rather than calling them in to you. Robb has given you some good advice on howling for coyotes. Your idea of having certain coyote sounds that you could use at touch of a button is a good idea that you will probably have to record for yourself. Once you have the sound recorded, you can place it on an MP-3 player or a digital voice recorder and be ready for business. A lone howl and a pup distress are my own favorite coyote calling sounds. I use a cow horn howler to do this. I hope that I am making sense here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I agree that they could have picked a better howl for the coyote sound on a Phantom. Having said that, I also need to tell you that most of the recorded coyote howls you will find are really best used for "locating" rather than calling them in to you. Robb has given you some good advice on howling for coyotes. Your idea of having certain coyote sounds that you could use at touch of a button is a good idea that you will probably have to record for yourself. Once you have the sound recorded, you can place it on an MP-3 player or a digital voice recorder and be ready for business. A lone howl and a pup distress are my own favorite coyote calling sounds. I use a cow horn howler to do this. I hope that I am making sense here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The howl on the Phantom... if I use it, and I really dont use that sound too much, I turn it off after the first bark howl, instead of letting it play till it stops.
The pup sound on the Phantom are group-howl/yip and not distress, which is too bad.
maybe playing the Howl and pup together, sounds OK... Ill try it when I get home and see. But I still think Id cut that Howling short.
but I havent had any problem with the sound loop length, might be more of a Human problem than a coyote problem. Mixing the distress sounds by pressing two different buttons at once is a great way to add variety with the phantom...
Howling is really just better using a handcall than an eCaller.
The pup sound on the Phantom are group-howl/yip and not distress, which is too bad.
maybe playing the Howl and pup together, sounds OK... Ill try it when I get home and see. But I still think Id cut that Howling short.
but I havent had any problem with the sound loop length, might be more of a Human problem than a coyote problem. Mixing the distress sounds by pressing two different buttons at once is a great way to add variety with the phantom...
Howling is really just better using a handcall than an eCaller.