.22-250man
New member
well i was shooting at 200 yds already. and i was shooting of sand bags the whole time. i bought the scope with rings on it and the base was put on by the factory
need an explination
- Thread starter .22-250man
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RonO.
New member
I get confused.
I still think that the barrel and scope are not parallel with one another. I would take scope and base off and reverse the base first. If it's not that, I would shim the back of the base to elevate it and shoot again. If that doesn't work, I might just sit down and have a hissy fit. But that's just me.
Bloody_Tailgate
New member
If the rings and bases are tight if makes no difference if there is 10 degrees of cant in either direction. You could have -30 degrees of cant on the scope base but if it's all tight your POI won't be off at different ranges.
This has to be shooter error. Could be shoulder pressure, less or more pressure on the rifle into the sand bags, not enough magnification on the scope to accurately shoot at the given distance, parallax issues etc, etc.
How many times have you experienced this problem? If it only happened on one trip to the range that's not a lot of info to base a determination on.
This has to be shooter error. Could be shoulder pressure, less or more pressure on the rifle into the sand bags, not enough magnification on the scope to accurately shoot at the given distance, parallax issues etc, etc.
How many times have you experienced this problem? If it only happened on one trip to the range that's not a lot of info to base a determination on.
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
Try some "Free Recoil" shooting with the rifle...Set it in some bags, as level as possible and only trip the trigger with the 'pinch' method, where your thumb is on the rear of the trigger guard and your index finger is on the trigger, pulling straight back..
Provided that your trigger is smooth and breaking clean, this will remove much of the shooter error potential...as all you have to do is maintain the same point of aim for each shot.
AS others have stated, the results you are getting don't make much sense for the cartridge/caliber...A 22-250 should still be climbing at 200, if sighted for hitting 1.5" at 100 yards..
With the specs you gave, my ballistic calculator indicated that your 'zero' would be 270 Yards for the bullet to be hitting 1.5" high at 100 yards and should be striking the target at 1.9" high at 200 yards...
Provided that your trigger is smooth and breaking clean, this will remove much of the shooter error potential...as all you have to do is maintain the same point of aim for each shot.
AS others have stated, the results you are getting don't make much sense for the cartridge/caliber...A 22-250 should still be climbing at 200, if sighted for hitting 1.5" at 100 yards..
With the specs you gave, my ballistic calculator indicated that your 'zero' would be 270 Yards for the bullet to be hitting 1.5" high at 100 yards and should be striking the target at 1.9" high at 200 yards...
.22-250man
New member
If it was shooter error it wouldnt be consistenly shooting in the same spot would it? And this is the first time ive experienced this problem because ive just now had time to shoot it and ive had it for 3 years
The scope is a Swift 6x40 fixed power no adjustable parallax.
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
Quote:If it was shooter error it wouldnt be consistenly shooting in the same spot would it That would depend on if the shooter is doing the same thing each time...
There is an old saying that I was taught as an instructor... "Practice doesn't make Perfect... Perfect Practice makes Perfect."
The same bad habit, continues to produce the same bad results...You need to remove as much 'human error' potential to determine the potential of the rifle...
When I'm working up loads for my rifles, I lock them down to the point that all I'm doing is tripping the trigger...by strapping them in a Lead Sled for repeatable stability...
Not quite the same as the 'Free Recoil', but it removes me from most of the equation...Once I find my most accurate load, then I can work on my actual shooting ability, since I have total confidence in my tools...
There is an old saying that I was taught as an instructor... "Practice doesn't make Perfect... Perfect Practice makes Perfect."
The same bad habit, continues to produce the same bad results...You need to remove as much 'human error' potential to determine the potential of the rifle...
When I'm working up loads for my rifles, I lock them down to the point that all I'm doing is tripping the trigger...by strapping them in a Lead Sled for repeatable stability...
Not quite the same as the 'Free Recoil', but it removes me from most of the equation...Once I find my most accurate load, then I can work on my actual shooting ability, since I have total confidence in my tools...
Bloody_Tailgate
New member
Originally Posted By: .22-250manIf it was shooter error it wouldnt be consistenly shooting in the same spot would it? And this is the first time ive experienced this problem because ive just now had time to shoot it and ive had it for 3 years
The scope is a Swift 6x40 fixed power no adjustable parallax.
Well you've eliminated shooter error, scope issues, and rifle issues...now I can only come up with 2 answers. 1. your bullet defies physics and just slows down by 2000fps somewhere between 100 and 200 yds or 2. there is 1.5 times as much gravity at your range than anywhere else in the world.
Just giving you a hard time there but it things like this come up all of the time. People never want to think it's them causing the problem yet they say all of their gear is up to par. I mean there is absolutely no way possible that the bullet is dropping an extra 3-4 inches with your rifle. If the barrel was bent all of them would shoot low. If the scope was loose they would shoot all over the place. If you're not changing rests or rest position this shouldn't change POI. A scope with no parallax adjustment has the parallax set to 125-150yds typically from the factory. If you're shooting from 200yds you'd better make darn sure your set up the same way for each shot or you could be off by inches. If your sand bag is at the end of your forearm at 100yds and back closer to the receiver when you're shooting at 200yds you could easily be off a few inches. If you're shooting from a different position (even a different bench or if you have to turn on the same bench to see the 200yd target) your shots could be off.
Lots to think about but that's why we love it right???
Well you've eliminated shooter error, scope issues, and rifle issues...now I can only come up with 2 answers. 1. your bullet defies physics and just slows down by 2000fps somewhere between 100 and 200 yds or 2. there is 1.5 times as much gravity at your range than anywhere else in the world.
Just giving you a hard time there but it things like this come up all of the time. People never want to think it's them causing the problem yet they say all of their gear is up to par. I mean there is absolutely no way possible that the bullet is dropping an extra 3-4 inches with your rifle. If the barrel was bent all of them would shoot low. If the scope was loose they would shoot all over the place. If you're not changing rests or rest position this shouldn't change POI. A scope with no parallax adjustment has the parallax set to 125-150yds typically from the factory. If you're shooting from 200yds you'd better make darn sure your set up the same way for each shot or you could be off by inches. If your sand bag is at the end of your forearm at 100yds and back closer to the receiver when you're shooting at 200yds you could easily be off a few inches. If you're shooting from a different position (even a different bench or if you have to turn on the same bench to see the 200yd target) your shots could be off.
Lots to think about but that's why we love it right???
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.22-250man
New member
I'm sure it is something to do with me. I just didn't think that me aiming at the bullseye at 200 each time and it still shoots 3.5 inches low would have anything to do with me. Maybe I need to learn more.
DoubleUp
Well-known member
.22-250, you didn't really answer the question asked above as to how many times this has occurred. Is this based on one range trip, and a few rds. fired or has it happened several times? If I missed where you replied to the above question, then my apologies.
It sounds like it was your first opportunity to fire this rifle, and so you might be drawing invalid conclusions from just a few shots. Repeat the process and see what happens this time.
It sounds like it was your first opportunity to fire this rifle, and so you might be drawing invalid conclusions from just a few shots. Repeat the process and see what happens this time.
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Bloody_Tailgate
New member
Try using a little different target the next time you go out. It helps me if I use one with a big enough bullseye that I can quarter it with my crosshairs. A 3" orange dot should allow you to do that at 200yds with your scope.
mdick
New member
could also try the same ammo in a different gun, if you have one - would rule out the ammo if it was fine there!
looking on winchester ammo's website and using their ballistics calculator (http://ballisticscalculator.winchester.com/) - using the white box at 4000 fps: 1.6" high at 100 will result in 1.6 inches high at 200 yards with a 1.5" high scope! I input 250 yard zero.
NO way it would be 3" low!
are you sure you are not shooting at 300 yards?? that is what the website shows to be 3" low (or even between 300 to 350 = 8" low) - not trying to be funny or insult you, but that is where 3.5" low SHOULD be.
looking on winchester ammo's website and using their ballistics calculator (http://ballisticscalculator.winchester.com/) - using the white box at 4000 fps: 1.6" high at 100 will result in 1.6 inches high at 200 yards with a 1.5" high scope! I input 250 yard zero.
NO way it would be 3" low!
are you sure you are not shooting at 300 yards?? that is what the website shows to be 3" low (or even between 300 to 350 = 8" low) - not trying to be funny or insult you, but that is where 3.5" low SHOULD be.
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.22-250man
New member
This is the first time i have got to shoot it. So this is the first time it has occured. I said that in a previous post. I dont have a different gun to try the ammo in. Would putting a different scope on it be worth trying? Or would i just be wasting my ammo.
Happy_Hunter
New member
Originally Posted By: tuneredJust a thought, are you sure the 200yards is measured, maybe its 300 and guessing its 200??? Sorry mdick, didnt read your intire post, i think you are right on. ed
Either this guy is right or your gun shoots real slow. I'm backing option 1, but expecting to be surprised.
Either this guy is right or your gun shoots real slow. I'm backing option 1, but expecting to be surprised.
.22-250man
New member
Im 110 percent sure it was 200. My buddy and i both ranged it with our rangefinders. We both got 200. so that takes that option away. no im back to square one
Happy_Hunter
New member
If its shooting 1.5" high at 100 and 3.5" low at 200 then the pill is travelling slow. Its MV is slow for a 22-250.
That 55gr pill should be doing between 3250 to 3500 out of a 20" barrel depending on load, powder, case, pill, etc. Ran that over a ballistics program and see what happens.
I'd like to hear how a scope can be out of line or something to cause the POI to appear low at 200 and OK at 100.
Bloody_Tailgate
New member
Originally Posted By: Happy_Hunter
If its shooting 1.5" high at 100 and 3.5" low at 200 then the pill is travelling slow. Its MV is slow for a 22-250. That 55gr pill should be doing between 3250 to 3500 out of a 20" barrel depending on load, powder, case, pill, etc. Ran that over a ballistics program and see what happens.
The white box are actually traveling closer to 3700fps. In order to have that kind of drop his bullet would have to be traveling at 2400fps...I just can't see that being the case, unless he's firing the 22-250 rounds out of a 243 barrel. If you're questioning me about this move back to 300, if your speed really is that slow you should be about 20" low.
Quote:I'd like to hear how a scope can be out of line or something to cause the POI to appear low at 200 and OK at 100.
It can't! If the rifle is holding zero @ 100yds and it's not hit, bumped, adjusted or anything between shooting at 100 and 200 there is nothing that can make his bullet impact low at the fault of the scope. I would be willing to put up 6 months pay to say it isn't the rifle, scope, or ammo...just sayin'.
If its shooting 1.5" high at 100 and 3.5" low at 200 then the pill is travelling slow. Its MV is slow for a 22-250. That 55gr pill should be doing between 3250 to 3500 out of a 20" barrel depending on load, powder, case, pill, etc. Ran that over a ballistics program and see what happens.
The white box are actually traveling closer to 3700fps. In order to have that kind of drop his bullet would have to be traveling at 2400fps...I just can't see that being the case, unless he's firing the 22-250 rounds out of a 243 barrel. If you're questioning me about this move back to 300, if your speed really is that slow you should be about 20" low.
Quote:I'd like to hear how a scope can be out of line or something to cause the POI to appear low at 200 and OK at 100.
It can't! If the rifle is holding zero @ 100yds and it's not hit, bumped, adjusted or anything between shooting at 100 and 200 there is nothing that can make his bullet impact low at the fault of the scope. I would be willing to put up 6 months pay to say it isn't the rifle, scope, or ammo...just sayin'.
mdick
New member
doesn't make sense that an alignment problem with the scope makes it "on" at 100 and "off" at 200 in my mind. 100 to 200 just isn't that far.
Maybe it is some type of problem with vertical parallax - if that exists??? try this: set up your gun/scope and, without touching it at all look at something at 200 yards and move your eye around and see if your crosshairs move in relationship to your target. if so, when you shoot at 200, you have to be sure your eye is in the exact middle of the scope EVERY TIME. If parallax is set at 150, then there would be error at 200 if your eye is not right in the middle of the scope. If you set up with the eye a little high or low, then you will be shooting a little high/low accordingly.
but still, that is not much of a distance to make 5 inches of problem (from 1.6" high where it should e to 3.5 low makes about 5 inches of error in only 100 yards!!).
Just another thought - and I realize probably not likely: are you aiming at the same spot at 200 as you did at 100 (measuring the drop improperly)? I know - not likely but i figure i'll ask.
Maybe it is some type of problem with vertical parallax - if that exists??? try this: set up your gun/scope and, without touching it at all look at something at 200 yards and move your eye around and see if your crosshairs move in relationship to your target. if so, when you shoot at 200, you have to be sure your eye is in the exact middle of the scope EVERY TIME. If parallax is set at 150, then there would be error at 200 if your eye is not right in the middle of the scope. If you set up with the eye a little high or low, then you will be shooting a little high/low accordingly.
but still, that is not much of a distance to make 5 inches of problem (from 1.6" high where it should e to 3.5 low makes about 5 inches of error in only 100 yards!!).
Just another thought - and I realize probably not likely: are you aiming at the same spot at 200 as you did at 100 (measuring the drop improperly)? I know - not likely but i figure i'll ask.
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