Helmet setup advice

ChrisLD

Active member
The new Armasite 640 sidekick has me seriously considering getting a thermal helmet rig.

How important is it to have a pvs14 to pair with a thermal on one side? Will it not balance correctly/feel weird ?

How do you guys have your helmet rigs setup and what would you change or keep the same?

Looking to get a conversation going so we can all learn first hand from guys that are using em.

Thanks. Looking forward to your answers
 
It's a learning curve man. Trust me, I've used the 14 bridged with a lot of different thermal monoculars. If need a lot of details I specialize in setting up helmet rigs for guys. You can PM me directly here for more contact info.
I'll also be getting a Helmet video up hopefully this month on my YouTube Channel.
 
Man this is a deep subject as it has a LOT of different parts to make the system and unfortunately none are cheap! I also recommend you look at some other sites for research and opinions as you'll get more and better perspectives from prior military guys that wore helmets on a day to day basis for a "living" vs some dude that wears one occasionally to hunt or play with. Snipers Hide has some great threads on this exact subject.

Another thing to be mindful of is there's lots of ways to do things with a seemingly endless amount of manufacturers so what works for one guy might not work for everyone.

Let's start with helmets. There is zero need for ballistic protection while coyote hunting so I don't personally want the extra weight associated so I wear a bump helmet. I've had my share of wearing ballistic helmets as a job in the Infantry on a regular basis and I'm over it! If you feel you want to buy only one helmet for hunting/defense than you might entertain a ballistic helmet but its definitely going to be heavier.

Two very popular bump helmets to consider are the Opscore and Team Wendy. I personally run a TW as I've found them to be very comfortable. Either of these two brands come with the mount for NV. The TWs is actually metal so it will hold up to heavy use, some helmet mounts are plastic so I'd be leary of those. Removable pads is another nice feature as it allows you to customize your helmet for your head.


Moving on to mounts, there are two major brands, Wilcox and Norotos, you can't go wrong with either brand. Both are American made, both have different DOD contracts and offer a solid option so honestly either will work. The biggest difference in mounts is some are "force to overcome" or FTO meaning you simply flip them up and others you have to push a button to allow the unit to move. Both systems have pros and cons but at the end of the day they both work. FTO mounts don't have as much wobble in them so I actually prefer them.
Another thing to consider is how they stow your NODs in the up position. Some like the Rhino are on top of your head while the G24 is on the front of your head. This is a very important thing to be mindful of if your going to be in and out of vehicles. My personal choice is the Norotos Lo-Sto or the Norotos LO-STO USMC configuration if you don't like FTO mounts. Wilcox G22 or G24 is another nice option.

Now to the bridge. A bridge is used and needed if you want to run NV and thermal, two thermals or two PVS-14 type optics. Knights Armament (KAC), Wilcox, MOD Armory are all quality bridges. I personally run the MOD Armory IC D14, its outstanding and does exactly what you need, comes with the arms for use of pvs14 on either side so no having to buy extra parts. I see Armasight has the new RAYVN bridge/mount as an option and that is a very useful looking mount as well.

If your not going to need or want a bridge, a Noisefighter dovetail arm is a great way to go and allows you to fold the NODs out of the way.

Other things to consider are counterweight. All helmets come with velcro and there are various manufacturers that make pouches to put weight on the back of the helmet to offset and balance the load. I can't remember what brand I even have but they are all pretty much the same, a velcro pouch, nothing critical!

Lots of guys will add various lights to their helmets. I run a Princeton Tech Charge Pro. It has IR, red, blue and white light that is super useful and mounts on the side of the helmet via picatinny rail. It mounts solid and is an all in one package. Surefire and others make nice options as well. Some guys actually run an additional dedicated white light on the opposite side as well.
Strobes are another light that guys wear. For predator hunting it has limited use. It could be utilized as a safety measure or a legal requirement so it may not be needed for everyone.

This should muddy the water a bit, if you got questions fire away as this is great information that should be shared to help guys out.

Expect to spend some money on this subject!
 
Forgot to answer the OPs question.

Wearing a single PVS-14 is SUPER comfortable as compared to heavier bridged units. I'm not a fan of extra weight and gizmos. With a single unit you won't really need counterweight and it balances just fine. Running a single thermal scanner would be the same and in some cases better as some of the thermals are less weight than a PVS-14.

Single PVS-14 setup with the Norotos Rhino mount has been in service since the 80s and still going strong today.
 
Wow that’s for all the awesome information Kino! I really appreciate you taking the time to type out such a great response. I have begun looking into the helmets and really like the look of the TW for 375$.

I really don’t “need” a pvs14 for navigation, as I have been walking in with no lights whatsoever for years. Sure it would be nice, but my primary concern here is a hands free scanning setup.

I am hoping to see some real world testing and video from the armasite when they become available. I definitely want a 640…

I’m thinking for a little over 4k, a guy could be into a quality 640 helmet rig with the parts I’m looking out now.



James I will definitely be watching your helmet setup video man. (I watch them all anyhow) lol


Thanks for all the information and tips. This is one of those things I will be researching while I save for it lol …


Sorry for not responding sooner, been busy and on a family vacation to Hilton head island
 
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Just made this a sticky as this conversation comes up from time to time.

Guys please post your questions, comments and opinions on helmet rigs, bridges and mounts here.
 
... How important is it to have a pvs14 to pair with a thermal on one side? Will it not balance correctly/feel weird ? ...

I've been running 14 and thermal side by side on head since late 2015.

Back in those days, people told me I would get dizzy, fall down and die and other similar things. When I got my first head mounted thermal, those sorts of words had me worried, so I spent the first few nights out with the thermal real near the house, so my wife could find my body more quickly, if I died.
But I didn't get dizzy, fall down or die. And I could navigate fine with just a thermal up there.

It took a little longer ( Feb 2016 IIRC) to get a head mounted thermal side by side with a 14, but I did get it done. And that had been my dream. This meant I could scan with the thermal hands free while moving. Even while rolling on the 4-wheeler and essentially I've been doing that ever since.

I also use a COTI type device to clipon to the 14, sometimes and that improves shooting with the laser.

So that gets back to the main reason I put a 14 up there, so I can see the laser. The thermal can't see the laser, so you can't effectively shoot with an IR laser with just the thermal up there. The 14 addresses that.

Beyond that, in snow and ice conditions, the 14 can see REALLY well, because the luminosity of of the snow/ice is super and reflects a lot of the ambient light. Whereas for thermal, everything (except the critters) is about the same temperature. So its hard seeing the terrain in snow/ice. The 14 helps with that.

Driving the 4 wheeler down trails in the woods and across narrow pipe bridges and such ... USUALLY the thermal can see better - but there are times, usually colder times, when the 14 can see better.

So I also like having both up there, in case one can see better than the other.

Do the images merge so you see one fused image ? They never have for me, but then I never expected them to. A tiny few people have reported they've gotten their images to merge, but I never have and again, never expected to.
But, the alternative used by most, is to put the thermal in their pocket. Then when they want to use it, they stop, take thermal out of pocket and hold it up with their hand to scan. So, they aren't moving and they are consuming a hand. Whereas if its mounted on my head already, I don't have to stop moving or consume a hand.

If I only want to see with one or the other and not both, I can close one eye lid and I do that on rare occasions, like when driving thru a narrow area on the 4 wheeler, to make sure I know what I am seeing. Some people like to flip one side out, so they only see one at a time. I've been able to use my eyelids for that.

Will it not balance correctly/feel weird ?

I will say a lot of people HATE IT ... so be aware !!!


I love it - but I am "n=1" ... and I would say, over the years, the "herd" has generally felt like "it sucks". So if you're a "herd critter" it probably isn't for you.

I really wanted it to work for me and it has - from day one ... and every day afterward. I've never regretted putting both up there together. There are use cases for doing other things. But in general. I like both up there together. And I believe if you want it to work for you - it will work for you - I has for me !!

Here are the 3 primary setups I use.

52761968554_fe927b53fe_k.jpg


From left to right.

14 with chinese ecoti on cry night cap. This is a very minimalist dual band setup and I like it for when I need to optimize mobility and can afford to deoptimize long distance PID, like when I'm mostly in the woods.

a pair of 14s with a vectronics 320 coti. This is primarily used when driving a vehicle with a glass windshield, but when I'll still be getting out to move, see and shoot at night. The dual 14s aid in driving (or navigating in really rough terrain in some lighting conditions). This is the setup I use the least, but I do use it when called for.
Over the years, the herd mantra has been that dual tube night vision is the ONLY way to go at night - hence the folks telling me I am a nut destined to die, if I put thermal on my head. But I've never told anyone else what they must do, and I just do what works for me. :)

We've experimented wearing this setup in the woods, versus setup #3 below ... and no one I go out with felt setup #2 worked better - and that goes against conventional wisdom, which says we have to have the 14 to "navigate". Our experience actually indicated the thermal can see to navigate better, in creeks and woods. It can better see the pools in the creeks for instance vs the 14, especially on nights with no big moon overhead.

#3 - a thermal monocular, and a 14 with a vectronics coti. This setup has enhanced longer distance PID over the other two. So for working in open pastures, this is what I use. The 14 and coti add the ability to shoot quickly with the laser.

And that gets us to the coti, what is it good for ? Most people get COTIs and hate them. I consider them to be essential for optimizing shooting with the laser. I've killed just shy of 500 critters on my land since late 2015 around my chickens and calves and about 1/3 of them with the laser. That's because there's a lot of woods around and the laser with coti is very fast at short distance where by the time you engage, the critter is usually moving away from you. So speed is essential. With the coti and the 14, the coti detects and tracks and the 14 sees the laser. You don't even have to pull up, so you save that time (if you're using 556).
 
So I ordered a Noisefighter 14 and realized it won’t work with the mini rails that are on the MH25 or the sidekick 640.. what is the best option for a single thermal setup ?
 
I've been running 14 and thermal side by side on head since late 2015.

Back in those days, people told me I would get dizzy, fall down and die and other similar things. When I got my first head mounted thermal, those sorts of words had me worried, so I spent the first few nights out with the thermal real near the house, so my wife could find my body more quickly, if I died.
But I didn't get dizzy, fall down or die. And I could navigate fine with just a thermal up there.
Been using the same set up for quite a while now, and had tons of guys telling me we were going to end up getting people killed or hurt, and that it couldn't be done. First night I mounted both techs, we were ir podded up in the Raptor rolling down the section lines into sets with no visible lighting, and scanning out the window with my thermal.
I call it google eyeing it. LOL
Since then I've kitted more fellas than I can count with gear very similar to mine!
 
...
The biggest difference in mounts is some are "force to overcome" or FTO meaning you simply flip them up and others you have to push a button to allow the unit to move. Both systems have pros and cons but at the end of the day they both work. FTO mounts don't have as much wobble in them so I actually prefer them.
Another thing to consider is how they stow your NODs in the up position. Some like the Rhino are on top of your head while the G24 is on the front of your head. This is a very important thing to be mindful of if your going to be in and out of vehicles. My personal choice is the Norotos Lo-Sto or the Norotos LO-STO USMC configuration if you don't like FTO mounts. Wilcox G22 or G24 is another nice option ...

FTO seems to be preferred by former "door kickers" and I can see it makes sense for door kicking as there could be circumstances when you need to flip up instantly, like someone turns on some bright vis lights. Messing around with a button would take a couple of seconds longer.
I have both. For hunting I use button, its quieter and that's useful sometimes. And I can do it quickly (2 secs) with one hand, by tilting my head down to the ground and using gravity. But for training, I like FTO.

I use the norotos lo-sto by preference and have 4 of those ... but also have a gaggle of norotos rhino 1s and 2s ... they aren't as flexible in their adjustments, but they're lighter.
... Two very popular bump helmets to consider are the Opscore and Team Wendy. I personally run a TW as I've found them to be very comfortable. Either of these two brands come with the mount for NV. The TWs is actually metal so it will hold up to heavy use, some helmet mounts are plastic so I'd be leary of those. Removable pads is another nice feature as it allows you to customize your helmet for your head ...

I have both TW and OpsCore. I like the TW for the tensioning system knob. Its a push to lock and pull to unlock. That was a GREAT idea.
I have 2 ballistic and 2 bump. I use both. One of each is "overly large" so I can fit a thick balaklava under it for the cool half of the year and the other 2 are "just right" for the warm half.
I also have 2 crye precision night caps, for when weight / mobility is a serious priority.
I like the OpsCore as more stuff uses their rail system.
I use all of them for everything. One of the ballistics has perm mounted peltors so I use it when I want to use those peltors.

... Other things to consider are counterweight ...

I use EOG counterweights, they are flexible with a number of removable and reinsertable bendable weights
Low Profile Short NVG Counter Weight

I didn't always use the EOGs, but I have 6 sets now one each for the helmets and night caps.
 
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Not sure this is new information, but just what works for me.

I run dual MH25s in the field. On the way there, we roll in a UTV with bridged PVS14s. We use the IR light bar and pods from Ultimate Night Vision on the UTV. It is just like driving with visible headlights on. My buddy usually drives, and his nods are much lighter and much better...Mine work fine, they are just heavy.

I have a separate PVS helmet set up like that, which just stays in the rig. When we transition to the field I just swap helmets. I could swap the MH25 bridge with the Noisefighter PVS14s, but I use external batteries for the MH25s so I never have to worry about power.

I did try Skinney's "google eye", but it wasn't for me. I just don't get to drive that often, so when my buddy drives I scan out my window with the thermal helmet on.

All of this was the result of money over time and trial and error. I've used Noisefighter bridges, the chimcom KA immitation bridge, and the Wilcox. For what I do the Noisefighter bridge works just fine (on the dual PVS). The chimcom KA worked fine on the MH25s for what it was. After extensive use it has developed a little wiggle and noise here and there. Nothing major, but enough to make me buy the Wilcox for the thermals. Adjustable IPD was very important to me.

I also have FTO and button rhino mounts. For what I do I like the FTO, but don't really notice any significant difference....except when you forget which you have on!

TW helmets with the boa tightener. EOG counterweights on the PVS set up and dual power banks on the MH25 set up.
 
I have two packs, one for each MH25. The bottom one is this:


The top one is from EOG and I can't seem to find it anywhere. It looks discontinued.

I'm using the Anker packs, but will likely swap out to a dual USB pack/pouch when I find one that works.
 
What therals are you guys running and do you like them? I have been on the fence between the armasight 640 and the MH25... I am getting mixed oppinions. I like the price of the armasight, but dont want to skimp out on a thousand bucks if the MH25 is a better unit...
 
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