Civil War to come?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Remember this? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
yotekyllr, your response sounds to me like you have no problem just laying down and letting the government have thier way. IMO that is what is wrong with this country. I agree that initially there would be hardship but why give up your freedom. with that said,I do not want this to happen any more than the next guy, but how far will it go before this happens?
and thank you for your past service to this country
 
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without that we will have,and should have a civil war to put it back straight





You have no idea what you are talking about... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I can tell you for certain that a civil war in this country is not what all the chest pounders really want..It would only result in yours and other families suffering... I have seen war and civil war in more than one country and it is not something you want to happen down the street..

It wouldn't be a civil war anyway in the US as you wouldn't be fighting liberals (ie yuppies, bunny lovers, gays whom don't own weapons) you would be fighting trained military and LEOs directed to squash you quickly... and would have no chance anyhow without resorting to the same tactics as insurgents in other places use...Thus defeating your conservative values you try to uphold...

I don't by any means agree with what is happening or what may be coming but I think that the only answer is to think our way out of this and have faith in our countrymen to stick together defeat this agenda.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



This is exactly correct IMO. The Founders set up the country the way they did because they KNEW government would end up necessarily doing just what you have described above.

Unfortunately, over time we have abandoned the Founders vision and come much close to what they feared (you've described it, an oppressive government that needs to 'control' its citizens with its military).

BTW, I believe that despite its accepted and widespread use the term "Civil War" for our 1861-65 War is a complete misnomer. Victors of wars write the history and I believe that is exactly what happened here: the North won and kinda took some liberties with the facts.

"Civil War" means two or more side fight over control of a country. That isn't what happened here.

In fact, the Southern states seceded from the Union and formed a NEW country: The Confederate States of America. It had its own President, Jefferson Davis, Congress, etc. The North needed the South's natural resources and so it waged an illegal war on the CSA.

All the stuff about slavery is a bunch of hooey and revisionist blather. Lincoln disliked black people. And, most CSA soldiers, like my own G-G-Grandfather--a 16 y-o Cavalryman from MS in 1863--were just poor farm boys who'd never owned a slave nor had their families. They fought because their country had been attacked!

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...squash you quickly... and would have no chance anyhow without resorting to the same tactics as insurgents in other places use



I don't follow you here. Conservative values have to do with upholding the US Constitution AS IT WAS WRITTEN. Conservatism is an ideology. Military tactics have nothing to do with it.

In fact, guerrilla tactics were largely the means by which we defeated the Brits in the Revolutionary War. Our Founders were firm believers in them.

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...It would only result in yours and other families suffering



I think this statement is undeniable--your point, and your overall conclusion are both very well taken here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif
 
america is not just going to roll over and take it like the british. I'm not even republican and would love some healthcare since i work my butt off and have none. They will have to pull the guns from my cold dead hands. If the freaking democrats close off one more piece of land or 4x4 trail i'm going to burst. I hate tree hugging peta hippy democrats. Everyone is so extreme I can't stand either side.

A gun in every house and superior marksmanship is why no one invades us and we can win wars. however i dunno about a civil war anytime soon.Obama knows he won't be getting our guns even if he tried. also bush set up the supreme court to stop the change.

I think the last war will be between mexico and china..... when i say mexico i mean america but by that time there won't be anyone here but mexicans. Luckily i love spicey food.
 
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North needed the South's natural resources and so it waged an illegal war on the CSA.



Can you supply any further information on this, I'm just a dumb yank /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif but I enjoy learning and I never heard this before.
Thanks,
Ron
 
What Java is referring to is that the southern states were very unhappy with the disparity in taxation and governmental inadequacies in representation afforded the south at the time. They therefore used the Constitution and the rights contained therein to vote for secession from the union and the CSA was established. Lincoln needed a hot button issue to bring military power to bear against it's former citizens and because in the north slavery was looked down upon, it fit the bill nicely. The north had the consumer base and the mills, but the south had the raw materials needed to keep the mills running. Lincoln held the belief that once freed, the former slaves would prefer to return to their homeland for which the state of Liberia had been created, however he never envisioned that the vast majority chose to stay.
If one reads up on the written works of Lincoln, one can find several passages concerning his feelings regarding the intermingling of the black and white races and that he had misgivings of America not suffering ongoing strife and some deep seated problems if the country were not kept as a white nation. He felt that for both sides separation was the best and most prudent choice. This is a very simplistic overview and most of the texts used in public schools don't or won't cover this area of American history at all, hence his reflection to "revisionist" history. Reading the works of the people or persons involved in the making of history often differs wildly from the persons who write about it later.
 
I think it's good for all this talk. I've seen war first hand. It is one thing to shoot yotes at a distance that don't shoot back. It's another to actually be under fire and have little if any place to turn to. I can not discribe the horrible feeling one has after the battle. I don't care to discuss them here or anywhere. Just to say I left everything in Laos years ago and don't want to revisit them. War has only one purpose and that is to kill. There is no other purpose. Yotekyllr seems to know that. What we need is a third party. I screwed up my vote this year, as I should have voted for a constitutionist, Ron Paul. No I selected the republician even tho I distrusted him in the most. I tell every body I voted for the lady instead and that is correct. The republicans have really disappointed me in this last 4 years. In any case if all else fails then the younger hot blooded people can have their ways. Thanks for my .02cents.
 
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What Java is referring to is that the southern states were very unhappy with the disparity in taxation and governmental inadequacies in representation afforded the south at the time. They therefore used the Constitution and the rights contained therein to vote for secession from the union and the CSA was established. Lincoln needed a hot button issue to bring military power to bear against it's former citizens and because in the north slavery was looked down upon, it fit the bill nicely. The north had the consumer base and the mills, but the south had the raw materials needed to keep the mills running. Lincoln held the belief that once freed, the former slaves would prefer to return to their homeland for which the state of Liberia had been created, however he never envisioned that the vast majority chose to stay.
If one reads up on the written works of Lincoln, one can find several passages concerning his feelings regarding the intermingling of the black and white races and that he had misgivings of America not suffering ongoing strife and some deep seated problems if the country were not kept as a white nation. He felt that for both sides separation was the best and most prudent choice. This is a very simplistic overview and most of the texts used in public schools don't or won't cover this area of American history at all, hence his reflection to "revisionist" history. Reading the works of the people or persons involved in the making of history often differs wildly from the persons who write about it later.



+1, very well put, thanks!
 
i invite you(ECHunter, etc.) to notice what the apostle Peter said @ 2Peter 3:3,4...., it's a paraphrase of what u & many others say about prophetical forecasters.
It would seem absurd for people to spend much effort to try and compel strangers & the like that they need to investigate the claims of this {man} who died a criminals death 2k yrs ago, and put their trust in Him. I invite you & anyone else to give me a rational explanation for this 2k yr evangelistic effort. why wouldn't they just take their fire insurance and keep it to themselves, why be open for persecution, ridicule and a life that is hardly void of social contempt.
I had a cancer that was incurable by human methods. i met this physician who has a 100% cure rate, He healed me and adopted me as His own child. He asked nothing of me except to tell others that He wanted to do the same for them.
I invite you to watch a 2 hr expose' and then i will be happy to tell you where you can see it in print.(Bible)

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7...+deception+full

Read Luke chapter 21:7-36(10min for a slow reader) May 14, 1948 the 1st leader of Israel said, "The Fig Tree has blossomed", just a manufactured coincidence. u decide. "This generation shall by no means pass away till all things take place".
Nero said " I can control the masses w/ sport & bread, (Wal-Mart & ESPN) we as Americans have been lulled into sleep, naive to believe that Freedom is self sustaining. we are about to reap the whirlwind for our poor custodialship of this God given freedom. I love this country, my uncles(5) and my father have all served to protect our freedoms. God says what He means, and He means what He said. My advice to you Believe & cling to the words in red. LB
 
I dont give the "Bilderburg" or NWO one moments thought. During the Clinton Adminsitration I bought it hook line and sinker. And I sure wish I had back the time I wasted on this.

Any of this would be a logistical impossibility.

I dont think there will be a civil war either.
But if it does happen, my predictions are that it would be the working class against the investment class.

With the government being more or less a contractor for the investment class, until such time as that posture became became politically unsustainable, then it would befriend the working class.
 
Think the military would fallow the orders? I kinda dought it..He's doing all he can to screw over military veterans and cut military pay.Kinda hard for those guys to get real motivated...
 
I sure as heck hope not. My country looking like Northern Ireland, or Bloody Kansas/Missouri in the late 1850's? Unfortunately I have no good feelings about where we are headed. The Left is implacable and for them to provoke a civil war as a deliberate ploy to gain absolute power, while unlikely, is not beyond imagining.

If there were some issue which caused massive civil unrest and/or disobedience (total economic collapse, an attempt at forced gun confiscation, whatever), this could present a tempting opportunity for some very ruthless and cold-blooded politicians (anybody familiar with Rahm Emmanuel?) to force something very unwise. And as stated by another poster, we probably would not at least get the chance to get rid of most of the lefties (too bad, that).

Barring such a scenario, we will probably muddle through this in our usual messy fashion and rearrange things a bit at the next congressional election. At least I hope so.

Gotta go, the voices are telling me to go sharpen my bayonets.
 
Methinks, the States that have had their Territory "Confiscated" by the unFederal Government have rights (Non-Negotiable) under the 10th Amendment, to tell the Feds to "GO PACK SAND". The Sheriff of any affected Counties should arrest or Shoot (preferably) any who would undertake to "Grab" any of their Counties land.
The Skypilot has approved this WARNING!!
Bob
 
I wonder how the 10th Amendment argument would work out with the Wilderness land grabs. Of course the states would have to be red to start with. I wonder if any state would go to court on that?
 
If the land in question is already owned by the federal government (BLM, Nat'l. Forest), the states will not have much of a legal leg to stand on. If the states want to exert some control over this land they will have to buy it.
 
This thread has grown and made some unique points. However, look at it this way. In our current situation, which I believe is a bad one, we need every single person who enjoys the freedoms that the Constitution gives us to work together. Outdoorsman, sportsman, hunters, trappers, dogmen, weekend campers, etc etc etc. Because in the end were going to be the ones that pull the numbers needed to make a difference.
There was a 27% increase through October-December last year in gun sales and it's continuing. "NICS reported 1,213,885 checks in January, up from 942,556 in the same month a year ago." The FBI performed 1.21 million background checks for firearm purchases across the nation in February 2009, an increase from 1.02 million checks in February 2008, according to the Criminal Justice Information Services Division.

Were obviously voicing an opinion and thats a lot of people who can "potentially" stand together for one cause. Obama is smart enough to know that the military with the oaths they take and many being gun owners and sportman themselves that they (I believe)won't side with a "Dictator" and that is why you have Obama talking about the volunteer group. America is in a very bad situation right now and it will be interesting to see if we can make it through 4 years without something big happening. And big being the understated word here.
 
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