224 Valkyrie for coyotes???

Originally Posted By: losthelegendI do reload and am proficient at it. However, I do not want a round that is brass prep intense. I have not conducted much research on the 22 Nosler. Can you recommend a builder for an upper for that particular round? Twist and barrel length? Is there production brass available? Thank you for all of your input!

This is the #1 reason I would not build a 22 Nosler. All you’ve got is Nosler brass and it isn’t very good. It’s very soft brass and there are a lot of people trashing brass in a single firing due to the case geometry. It can also have feeding problems because of that rebated rim. Yes it’s a hot rod in a AR15 but IMO just not worth the problems.

Valkyrie on the other hand has Hornady and Federal brass which either are the greatest and is soft, plus there’s Starline brass which is very good strong brass. That’s what I’ve been running in mine.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24With the lighter bullets it doesn’t do anything that 223 doesn’t do. I only shot one yote with mine and it was with the 60gr NBT factory ammo and after that I wouldn’t use that load again. I was using my thermal clip on at the time so I watched the hit right at the back of the shoulder hit, splash, and the yote took off running and was never found. Almost zero blood trail, just lots of hair and some chunks of meat at the spot he was hit.

I think loaded with an 80gr bullet it would be a viable choice though. It could be light enough to get good velocity, but still take advantage of the higher BC bullet for flatter trajectory at distance.

I didint get mine to yote hunt though, it’s a long range gas gun.
My experience with the Nosler ballistic tip is the opposite. If anything they need a bit more expansion. I would question the shot placement being exactly where you thought it was. We have what appears to be some perfect shots in thermal that result in misses on occassion. I'm considering trying the 53 VMAX. I run both 3500.

If it was a miss there wouldn't have been fur and pieces of flesh at the impact site and I'm 100% confident that I saw it hit and splash at the rear of the shoulder. I'm running a LWTS clip on, not your typical thermal setup and it gives a lot of detail on front of a day optic.

Others have experienced this load to splash badly too, I'm not the only one, I've had the same result on the groundhogs I've shot with them. I have ran NBT's in other rifles and haven't experienced this explosiveness on impact despite being higher velocities in other rifles. Many believe it's the super fast twist rate and RPM's with the spec'd Valkyrie barrels that causes this. Regardless though, it's not a good choice for predators with the light fragmenting bullets. Sticking to something a little better constructed like a Berger target bullet is a better idea.
No I'm not saying you missed I'm just saying your shot may have been a few inches off from where you thought. For me and my 12 twist 22 Nosler I've been getting exit holes on rib cage shots with 55 ballistic tips. We are getting some Runners when we get out close to 300 and beyond. I've had some coyotes that I swear were dead and we went to get him and they were gone. This is why I want to try even more explosive bullet in the ballistic tip. I will agree though that the 6.5 or 7 twist is overspinnig them. It's why the nxs doesnt appeal to me.
I shot one two nights ago under 100 yards that went into the rib cage and came out in the front of the back leg and blue a pretty good-sized hole. The coyote was quartering to me hard. I walked up to get it and it was standing there looking at me and started to run off so I put another one in it. If you run the right bullet through a coyote from the shoulder to the rear leg it shouldn't spend fall down lay there get up and run off.

I think that these are all good observations. Splashes either indicate a less than ideal shot placement, or that the bullet was deflected back towards the surface.

I too have had many coyotes that I would have sworn on a stack of bibles had a perfect hit, only to see a less than ideal result.

Since starting to record our hunts with a camera mounted on top of my rifle, I have seen that even perfectly placed shots can result in some odd results. I shot a coyote on Thanksgiving day. It was a dead on chest shot, yet it came out the left side of the coyote just behind the shoulder. Looking at the footage in slow motion, the coyote was standing at a slight angle with it's right shoulder slightly forward.

As far as the .224 for coyotes, with the right bullet I have no doubt that it will work. But as the guys have said, will it do anything on a coyote that the .223 doesn't? With the exception of longer range, probably not. Velocity is velocity and energy is energy. Physics doesn't care what "caliber" it is.
 
Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: losthelegendI do reload and am proficient at it. However, I do not want a round that is brass prep intense. I have not conducted much research on the 22 Nosler. Can you recommend a builder for an upper for that particular round? Twist and barrel length? Is there production brass available? Thank you for all of your input!

This is the #1 reason I would not build a 22 Nosler. All you’ve got is Nosler brass and it isn’t very good. It’s very soft brass and there are a lot of people trashing brass in a single firing due to the case geometry. It can also have feeding problems because of that rebated rim. Yes it’s a hot rod in a AR15 but IMO just not worth the problems.

Valkyrie on the other hand has Hornady and Federal brass which either are the greatest and is soft, plus there’s Starline brass which is very good strong brass. That’s what I’ve been running in mine.
You obviously don't have a 22 Nosler never have had a 22 Nosler or know anything about Nosler brass. They do not lose primer pockets. Occasionally they get a little swipe but if you go with the rifle + 2 gas it cleans most of that up. Nosler brass is hard and I spoke with Nosler and they said they've never change their formula. I get way more shots out of 22 Nosler brass then I can out of my 6 x 6. 8 with any brass.
 
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As far as feed issues go with the 22 Nosler it feeds flawlessly. We dumped nearly 60 rounds at 1 coyote two weeks ago ended up getting him at 500-plus yards. I've got plenty of video to prove that these things feed. I don't carry 37 rounds to each stand because my gun won't feed.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: losthelegendI do reload and am proficient at it. However, I do not want a round that is brass prep intense. I have not conducted much research on the 22 Nosler. Can you recommend a builder for an upper for that particular round? Twist and barrel length? Is there production brass available? Thank you for all of your input!

This is the #1 reason I would not build a 22 Nosler. All you’ve got is Nosler brass and it isn’t very good. It’s very soft brass and there are a lot of people trashing brass in a single firing due to the case geometry. It can also have feeding problems because of that rebated rim. Yes it’s a hot rod in a AR15 but IMO just not worth the problems.

Valkyrie on the other hand has Hornady and Federal brass which either are the greatest and is soft, plus there’s Starline brass which is very good strong brass. That’s what I’ve been running in mine.
You obviously don't have a 22 Nosler never have had a 22 Nosler or know anything about Nosler brass. They do not lose primer pockets. Occasionally they get a little swipe but if you go with the rifle + 2 gas it cleans most of that up. Nosler brass is hard and I spoke with Nosler and they said they've never change their formula. I get way more shots out of 22 Nosler brass then I can out of my 6 x 6. 8 with any brass.

I built one as soon as the cartridge was released a two years ago, so yes I do have experience with it. It's a gimmicky cartridge. It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design.

Nosler brass is very weak, almost as bad as Hornady and Federal. This has been my experience with a lot of Nosler brass, not just the 22 Nosler. I've ran their 7mm RM, 300WM, 300RUM, 6.5-284, and 6.5 Creed.

22 Nosler simply does not do what it says it does which is why nobody else has picked it up in the full two years it's been on the market. If it was something that was here to stay other manufacturers would have jumped on board. Look at 224 Valkyrie for example that was just released in January of this year so has been out for one year and you already have three options for brass, and two major options for ammo (7 factory loads between Federal and Hornady) as well as some smaller companies producing ammo as well.

Hate to say it, but Valkyrie is here to stay and 22 Nosler is dying off as slowly as it gained any traction.

Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.

Nosler failed with their attempted hot rod and that's all there is to it.
 
I'll just leave this here for consideration. L-R 223, 22 N, 22 V and 6.5 G.

vK9C0W5.jpg


Greg
 
Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: losthelegendI do reload and am proficient at it. However, I do not want a round that is brass prep intense. I have not conducted much research on the 22 Nosler. Can you recommend a builder for an upper for that particular round? Twist and barrel length? Is there production brass available? Thank you for all of your input!

This is the #1 reason I would not build a 22 Nosler. All you’ve got is Nosler brass and it isn’t very good. It’s very soft brass and there are a lot of people trashing brass in a single firing due to the case geometry. It can also have feeding problems because of that rebated rim. Yes it’s a hot rod in a AR15 but IMO just not worth the problems.

Valkyrie on the other hand has Hornady and Federal brass which either are the greatest and is soft, plus there’s Starline brass which is very good strong brass. That’s what I’ve been running in mine.
You obviously don't have a 22 Nosler never have had a 22 Nosler or know anything about Nosler brass. They do not lose primer pockets. Occasionally they get a little swipe but if you go with the rifle + 2 gas it cleans most of that up. Nosler brass is hard and I spoke with Nosler and they said they've never change their formula. I get way more shots out of 22 Nosler brass then I can out of my 6 x 6. 8 with any brass.

I built one as soon as the cartridge was released a two years ago, so yes I do have experience with it. It's a gimmicky cartridge. It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design.

Nosler brass is very weak, almost as bad as Hornady and Federal. This has been my experience with a lot of Nosler brass, not just the 22 Nosler. I've ran their 7mm RM, 300WM, 300RUM, 6.5-284, and 6.5 Creed.

22 Nosler simply does not do what it says it does which is why nobody else has picked it up in the full two years it's been on the market. If it was something that was here to stay other manufacturers would have jumped on board. Look at 224 Valkyrie for example that was just released in January of this year so has been out for one year and you already have three options for brass, and two major options for ammo (7 factory loads between Federal and Hornady) as well as some smaller companies producing ammo as well.

Hate to say it, but Valkyrie is here to stay and 22 Nosler is dying off as slowly as it gained any traction.

Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.

Nosler failed with their attempted hot rod and that's all there is to it.
So what you're telling me is you had an AR Stoner 18 inch barrel like half the other people on this form that didn't shoot worth a crap. I've said repeatedly to build at least a 22-inch so it can burn the powder and yes it will leave the 224 Valkyrie in the dust.
Hornady 22 Nosler brass is absolutely not soft. The swiping is simply due to bolt timing. Take the gas system away the swipe goes away. Get a rifle + 2 gas system unlike the stoner Barrel had and the issue is mosty resolved. I've had one 22 Nosler case crack at the neck and that doesn't happen because it's soft. That case was probably fired eight or nine times maybe more which will work hard in it and probably resulted in the crack. Other than that the only way I have ever seen a 22 Nosler case fail is when the case head gets hammered enough with enough shots that it actually expands the case head wider than .380. When it gets bigger than this diameter it will not fit in the shell holder and it may not fit into the bolt face and the cartridge needs to be discarded. Only one time have I had 1 not fit into the bolt face. You can get several firings of Max load before this occurs.
I should add that I don't even run adjustable gas blocks I running wide open for maximum hot brass dispensing.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: losthelegendI do reload and am proficient at it. However, I do not want a round that is brass prep intense. I have not conducted much research on the 22 Nosler. Can you recommend a builder for an upper for that particular round? Twist and barrel length? Is there production brass available? Thank you for all of your input!

This is the #1 reason I would not build a 22 Nosler. All you’ve got is Nosler brass and it isn’t very good. It’s very soft brass and there are a lot of people trashing brass in a single firing due to the case geometry. It can also have feeding problems because of that rebated rim. Yes it’s a hot rod in a AR15 but IMO just not worth the problems.

Valkyrie on the other hand has Hornady and Federal brass which either are the greatest and is soft, plus there’s Starline brass which is very good strong brass. That’s what I’ve been running in mine.
You obviously don't have a 22 Nosler never have had a 22 Nosler or know anything about Nosler brass. They do not lose primer pockets. Occasionally they get a little swipe but if you go with the rifle + 2 gas it cleans most of that up. Nosler brass is hard and I spoke with Nosler and they said they've never change their formula. I get way more shots out of 22 Nosler brass then I can out of my 6 x 6. 8 with any brass.

I built one as soon as the cartridge was released a two years ago, so yes I do have experience with it. It's a gimmicky cartridge. It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design.

Nosler brass is very weak, almost as bad as Hornady and Federal. This has been my experience with a lot of Nosler brass, not just the 22 Nosler. I've ran their 7mm RM, 300WM, 300RUM, 6.5-284, and 6.5 Creed.

22 Nosler simply does not do what it says it does which is why nobody else has picked it up in the full two years it's been on the market. If it was something that was here to stay other manufacturers would have jumped on board. Look at 224 Valkyrie for example that was just released in January of this year so has been out for one year and you already have three options for brass, and two major options for ammo (7 factory loads between Federal and Hornady) as well as some smaller companies producing ammo as well.

Hate to say it, but Valkyrie is here to stay and 22 Nosler is dying off as slowly as it gained any traction.

Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.

Nosler failed with their attempted hot rod and that's all there is to it.
So what you're telling me is you had an AR Stoner 18 inch barrel like half the other people on this form that didn't shoot worth a crap. I've said repeatedly to build at least a 22-inch so it can burn the powder and yes it will leave the 224 Valkyrie in the dust.
Hornady 22 Nosler brass is absolutely not soft. The swiping is simply due to bolt timing. Take the gas system away the swipe goes away. Get a rifle + 2 gas system unlike the stoner Barrel had and the issue is mosty resolved.

Absolutely not, I buy only top tier components. My barrel was a 22" Proof Research with rifle +2 gas, you should look them up if you haven't heard of them. The barrel shot great, the cartridge was just nothing to write home about. I got no more velocity out of it than I did my 24" BHW 223 Wylde barrel.

I get higher velocities with even my 20" LMT MRP 224V than I got from the Nosler because of pressure. The Craddock Precision Rock Creek cut rifled 22" +2 gas 224V barrel I had absolutely smokes it too.

Sorry but you're not going to convince me that the 22 Nosler is a superior round because I know better. Just like all the other ammo and brass manufacturers that never jumped on board because they know better.

BTW Hornady does not make 22 Nosler brass and to my knowledge never did make any, or even ammo. Not sure where you're getting that from.
 
Well let me clear up if I said Hornady made 22 Nosler brass I just misspoke when talking to this supposedly smartphone. Second of all my advice to you would be to get a pound of cfe223. If you're not getting speed you're not shooting cfe223. A Max load of Varget is 200 feet per second slower than cfe223. I'm not sure I've tried anything other than those two powders never went past cfe223 the accuracy is there and it will shoot over 3,500 feet per second with a 55 ballistic tip in warm weather cold it's just under 3500.
 
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The 22 Valkyrie is designed to shoot a long slow bullet at a distance farther than most people can see a coyote. A Greg's picture points out it holds four point seven grains less water as well. I'm a believer of physics. The throats and twists are built around anything but a coyote bullet. If you're shooting paper coyote pass 600 yards go for it.
 
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Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24 It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design.



Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.



If you are comparing factory loads there might not be that much difference between a 223 and 22 nosler but when hand loading there is.

We shot a 24" 223 and a 22" 22 Nosler over a chrono and the 223 didn't keep up. Not to mention the accuracy went to [beeep] when pushing the 223 hard. Show me a 223 or 224 that will shoot a 55 grain bullet 3500 out of a 22"barrel with any sort of accuracy. I will wait.

But if you start looking at an 18" barrel or bullets over 60 grains the 224 and 22 nosler probably get closer to one another. In central IL I do not see the need to shoot a heavy 22 cal bullet. Its all about shooting laser flat IMO. But out west guys seems to really like the heavy 224 bullets. I just think people get way to ate up on BC for killing coyotes under 300 yards.
 
I've got 8lbs of CFE223 sitting here that I want nothing to do with after I burned up the first 8lbs I had. And yes, I tried it in the Nosler too when I had it. Velocity isn't everything when the ES and SD isn't there and accuracy suffers as well. I've never gotten acceptable consistency from that powder out of everything I've tried it in. I've been running 8208XBR because it gives similar velocities with the same bullet weights and unlike CFE isn't dirty as [beeep], it gives low ES/SD's, and is nowhere near as temp sensitive.

Like I said, you're not going to convince me that 22 Nosler is a superior round because I know better. If it works for you great, but just like the Valkyrie it really isn't anything special over a 223 when it comes to the light bullets. A simple trip to Midway's site where you can compare a bunch of factory ammo for velocity that is all going to be tested in a 24" barrel from a universal test receiver confirms just that.

Launching long high BC bullets at mag length that you normally can't fit with a 223 or 22 Nosler is where the Valkyrie shines and because of that it has become the king of the AR15 platform for long range shooting. It will do the close and intermediate stuff with light bullets just the same as 223 and 22 Nosler which makes it a viable all around solution. It does everything they do, plus more.

If your game is predators and you want something in an AR that is faster and flatter inside 300 yards then 204 Ruger is where you should be looking. Another successful cartridge that caught on and has stuck, though it's not quite as popular today as it once was.
 
Originally Posted By: dozer_xjOriginally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24 It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design.



Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.



If you are comparing factory loads there might not be that much difference between a 223 and 22 nosler but when hand loading there is.

We shot a 24" 223 and a 22" 22 Nosler over a chrono and the 223 didn't keep up. Not to mention the accuracy went to [beeep] when pushing the 223 hard. Show me a 223 or 224 that will shoot a 55 grain bullet 3500 out of a 22"barrel with any sort of accuracy. I will wait.

But if you start looking at an 18" barrel or bullets over 60 grains the 224 and 22 nosler probably get closer to one another. In central IL I do not see the need to shoot a heavy 22 cal bullet. Its all about shooting laser flat IMO. But out west guys seems to really like the heavy 224 bullets. I just think people get way to ate up on BC for killing coyotes under 300 yards.




The factory Federal 60gr NBT 224V ammo averaged 3380fps out of my 22" Craddock barrel and shot 1/2 minute. I have no doubt that stepping down 5gr in bullet weight and rolling my own I could match that 3500fps with ease.

I've got no interest in shooting the super light bullets though so I wouldn't even try. Why run that when I can run a 80gr at almost 3000fps that will be more than flat enough to 300 yards for all intents and purposes of predator hunting, but still won't be pushed around as much by wind, and you have mid and long range capabilities too.
 
Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: dozer_xjOriginally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24 It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design.

The 22 Nosler is faster flatter and will deliver more energy with a coyote hunting style bullet. Physics dictates that do two more case capacity. Common Sense tells me that these facts make it a superior cartridge along with what I have personally experienced with it. My posts are to bring actual field-tested information to the OP.

Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.



If you are comparing factory loads there might not be that much difference between a 223 and 22 nosler but when hand loading there is.

We shot a 24" 223 and a 22" 22 Nosler over a chrono and the 223 didn't keep up. Not to mention the accuracy went to [beeep] when pushing the 223 hard. Show me a 223 or 224 that will shoot a 55 grain bullet 3500 out of a 22"barrel with any sort of accuracy. I will wait.

But if you start looking at an 18" barrel or bullets over 60 grains the 224 and 22 nosler probably get closer to one another. In central IL I do not see the need to shoot a heavy 22 cal bullet. Its all about shooting laser flat IMO. But out west guys seems to really like the heavy 224 bullets. I just think people get way to ate up on BC for killing coyotes under 300 yards.




The factory Federal 60gr NBT 224V ammo averaged 3380fps out of my 22" Craddock barrel and shot 1/2 minute. I have no doubt that stepping down 5gr in bullet weight and rolling my own I could match that 3500fps with ease.

I've got no interest in shooting the super light bullets though so I wouldn't even try. Why run that when I can run a 80gr at almost 3000fps that will be more than flat enough to 300 yards for all intents and purposes of predator hunting, but still won't be pushed around as much by wind, and you have mid and long range capabilities too.
Case capacity and physics dictates that the 22 Nosler is a faster flatter cartridge that will deliver more downrange energy at coyote killing ranges with coyote killing bullets. To me that makes it a superior cartridge. It is on the heels of the 22-250 only in an AR platform.
In my opinion if you want to shoot a heavy bullet step up to a 6 mm cartridge and call Ritch or Mike. You can run them up to speed with a shorter barrel with way more bullet options at cheaper prices. I don't care how heavy of a 22 caliber bullet you run through a coyote if it doesn't expand and transfer energy you've got a runner on your hands unless you put it and just the right spot.
Bullet expansion is what kills coyotes. Expansion requires a properly constructed bullet at the proper speed.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: dozer_xjOriginally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24 It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design.

The 22 Nosler is faster flatter and will deliver more energy with a coyote hunting style bullet. Physics dictates that do two more case capacity. Common Sense tells me that these facts make it a superior cartridge along with what I have personally experienced with it. My posts are to bring actual field-tested information to the OP.

Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.



If you are comparing factory loads there might not be that much difference between a 223 and 22 nosler but when hand loading there is.

We shot a 24" 223 and a 22" 22 Nosler over a chrono and the 223 didn't keep up. Not to mention the accuracy went to [beeep] when pushing the 223 hard. Show me a 223 or 224 that will shoot a 55 grain bullet 3500 out of a 22"barrel with any sort of accuracy. I will wait.

But if you start looking at an 18" barrel or bullets over 60 grains the 224 and 22 nosler probably get closer to one another. In central IL I do not see the need to shoot a heavy 22 cal bullet. Its all about shooting laser flat IMO. But out west guys seems to really like the heavy 224 bullets. I just think people get way to ate up on BC for killing coyotes under 300 yards.




The factory Federal 60gr NBT 224V ammo averaged 3380fps out of my 22" Craddock barrel and shot 1/2 minute. I have no doubt that stepping down 5gr in bullet weight and rolling my own I could match that 3500fps with ease.

I've got no interest in shooting the super light bullets though so I wouldn't even try. Why run that when I can run a 80gr at almost 3000fps that will be more than flat enough to 300 yards for all intents and purposes of predator hunting, but still won't be pushed around as much by wind, and you have mid and long range capabilities too.
Case capacity and physics dictates that the 22 Nosler is a faster flatter cartridge that will deliver more downrange energy at coyote killing ranges with coyote killing bullets. To me that makes it a superior cartridge. It is on the heels of the 22-250 only in an AR platform.

Case capacity isn't everything and you obviously you don't understand physics very well if you can't see that and just think that more powder = more velocity. You can do a lot with a good cartridge design which is exactly what Federal did.

If powder capacity is everything then how does a 6 Dasher running 32gr of powder get within 100fps of a 6mm Creedmoor with the same 26" barrels and same 105gr bullets but running 42-43gr of powder? Boggles the mind unless you understand cartridge design.

Valkyrie is a far more efficient case design than the Nosler and there's no getting around it. The evidence of this is everywhere from the velocities achieved with factory ammo to what people are getting who load their own. Valkyrie does the same thing with less powder, less throat wear, better brass quality and availability, and better factory ammo availability that's all still growing. Hornady just released two more factory loads, and with SHOT show right around the corner I'd bet you that you will see even more. Doubt you'll see any ammo or brass released for the Nosler though, probably crickets from that camp since that ship has sailed.
 
Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: dozer_xjOriginally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24 It doesn't hardly give any performance over 223 unless they're long barrels in which case you can get close to the same result with 223. You can't push pressures like you can in other cartridges because of the case design. If you want to sit on a Mountaintop and range and dope and calculate yardages and quick your turrets around I would suggest something bigger than a 22 caliber. If you want to turn your coyote call on and have one charge in and your heartbeat start cranking up and your mind starts shutting off and you just want to be able to put the crosshairs on him and level him and you want to do it with an AR-15 I would recommend the 22 Nosler do do it's fast flat shooting characteristics that will be accurate with Kyle killing bullets.

The 22 Nosler is faster flatter and will deliver more energy with a coyote hunting style bullet. Physics dictates that do two more case capacity. Common Sense tells me that these facts make it a superior cartridge along with what I have personally experienced with it. My posts are to bring actual field-tested information to the OP.

Also an interesting note, if you go to Midway where you can compare the velocities of the factory loads for both in one place and compared the two, the Valkyrie actually achieves the same or slightly higher velocities than the Nosler with the same bullet weight. It also does this with less powder because it's a more efficient (better) case design.



If you are comparing factory loads there might not be that much difference between a 223 and 22 nosler but when hand loading there is.

We shot a 24" 223 and a 22" 22 Nosler over a chrono and the 223 didn't keep up. Not to mention the accuracy went to [beeep] when pushing the 223 hard. Show me a 223 or 224 that will shoot a 55 grain bullet 3500 out of a 22"barrel with any sort of accuracy. I will wait.

But if you start looking at an 18" barrel or bullets over 60 grains the 224 and 22 nosler probably get closer to one another. In central IL I do not see the need to shoot a heavy 22 cal bullet. Its all about shooting laser flat IMO. But out west guys seems to really like the heavy 224 bullets. I just think people get way to ate up on BC for killing coyotes under 300 yards.




The factory Federal 60gr NBT 224V ammo averaged 3380fps out of my 22" Craddock barrel and shot 1/2 minute. I have no doubt that stepping down 5gr in bullet weight and rolling my own I could match that 3500fps with ease.

I've got no interest in shooting the super light bullets though so I wouldn't even try. Why run that when I can run a 80gr at almost 3000fps that will be more than flat enough to 300 yards for all intents and purposes of predator hunting, but still won't be pushed around as much by wind, and you have mid and long range capabilities too.
Case capacity and physics dictates that the 22 Nosler is a faster flatter cartridge that will deliver more downrange energy at coyote killing ranges with coyote killing bullets. To me that makes it a superior cartridge. It is on the heels of the 22-250 only in an AR platform.

Case capacity isn't everything and you obviously you don't understand physics very well if you can't see that and just think that more powder = more velocity. You can do a lot with a good cartridge design which is exactly what Federal did.

If powder capacity is everything then how does a 6 Dasher running 32gr of powder get within 100fps of a 6mm Creedmoor with the same 26" barrels and same 105gr bullets but running 42-43gr of powder? Boggles the mind unless you understand cartridge design.

Valkyrie is a far more efficient case design than the Nosler and there's no getting around it. The evidence of this is everywhere from the velocities achieved with factory ammo to what people are getting who load their own. Valkyrie does the same thing with less powder, less throat wear, better brass quality and availability, and better factory ammo availability that's all still growing. Hornady just released two more factory loads, and with SHOT show right around the corner I'd bet you that you will see even more. Doubt you'll see any ammo or brass released for the Nosler though, probably crickets from that camp since that ship has sailed.
Would you recommend a varmint bullet through a 6.5 or 7 twist?
I don't care what gets close to what on velocity. The cartridge I choose is the one that's the fastest and the flattest. Laser beams kill coyotes not rainbow trajectory cartridges.
 
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0p the bullet and only the bullet is what kills the coyote . In order for the bullet to efficiently kill the coyote it must hit it and hit it at a rate of speed of which it is designed to expand. Beyond that it needs to be a bullet that is designed to expand. The 22 Nosler are basically 12 twist and 8 twist and the Valkyries are 7 or 6.5 twist if I recall. I would decide what kind of bullet you want to shoot bearing in mind that the bullet has to hit the coyote and expand. I would then make my decision based on that thought process.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223
Would you recommend a varmint bullet through a 6.5 or 7 twist?
I don't care what gets close to what on velocity. The cartridge I choose is the one that's the fastest and the flattest. Laser beams kill coyotes not rainbow trajectory cartridges.

Yes, I shot the factory 60gr through my 6.7 twist Craddock and 7 twist LMT with no blow ups and superb accuracy.

I have shot lots of 40-50gr varmint bullets through 7 twist 223's and have also never had a blow up. I've also ran 58gr VMAX's through 8 twist 243 barrels. The only varmint bullet I've ever blown up was when I was trying to run 110gr Vmax's through a 10 twist 300RUM, they all blew up and I ended up having a 15 twist barrel done to shoot them.

For the most part varmint bullets aren't as twist fragile as a lot of people make them out to be. If you're blowing up bullets you have a better chance of having gotten a bad batch of bullets than the RPM's are popping them.

FWIW my 224V 80.5gr load drops .9 mil to 300 yards with .6 wind drift for 10mph, 1.6 drop .8 wind for 400, and 2.4 drop 1.0 wind for 500 yards. A 55gr NBT running 3500fps in the same conditions is .7 mil drop (2" flatter) with .9 wind at 300, 1.4 drop (2.8" flatter) 1.3 wind at 400 and 2.2 drop (2.4" flatter) 1.8 drift at 500. After 500 though the Nosler drops hard where the Valkyrie with this load stays flat and is even supersonic 400 yards further than the 55gr.

The Valkyrie load also holds higher impact velocities beyond 275 yards and has more energy from the muzzle and just pulls further ahead in that regard the further you're shooting.

That 2"-2.8" flatter curve that the Nosler with a 55gr at 3500fps shoots from 300-500 yards will not make a difference between a hit or a miss on a coyote size target and in fact you could run the same dope for either and connect. The almost double wind drift that the Nosler has at 400-500 yards can easily mean a missed shot that could have connected easier with the Valkyrie, or a poor shot if it drifts back into the guts.

So the Valkyrie gives you a heavier bullet with more energy on target, far superior wind drift at any distance and only better the further the shots go, a higher impact velocity beyond 275 yards, and the only sacrifice is a 2-2.8" less flat curve to 500 yards that will make no difference. Beyond 500 (not coyote hunting) it's way flatter though.
 
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