200 grain Ballistic tips for elk?

The way I look at it is like this. The folks at Nosler are some pretty sharp folks. They know perfectly well what you/we use a 40 gr balistic tip for and they build a pretty dandy bullet for that purpose. They also know what people use a 200gr. .338 for and it ain't for blowin' up prairie dogs. A .338 is meant to be big medicine for big tough animals, PERIOD. I'm sure that they built the .338 200gr BT to meet these challenges.
 
I write for one of the same mags as Steve...I just counted the animals I have shot with the puny 150 grain 7mm Nosler BT - comes up to 19, most of which are bigger than whitetails, including game from both Africa and Asia.

I never lost an animal, and never missed one either.

All this blather about Nosler BTs being weak is probably perpetuated by guys who have never used them on game.

I also like the .338 Hornady 225 grain bullet - shot lots of big critters with that round.
 
Hey Love To Hunt,

I know who you are, but I ain't telling. Welcome, my friend, I told you this was a great board.

My numbers are around one hundred moose, deer, elk, caribou and antelope with nothing heavier than a 140 Ballistic Tip (some 120) in a puny .280 Ackley.

The bullet is several generations removed from the earlier Ballistics.

I think the message here is that shooters tend to be very conservitive. Early Ballistics were soft, but they've gone through a gradual transformation and some guys still aren't going to trust them. Hey, times change. So do products if they are going to survive in the market place.

I don't shoot the bigger diameters, but Barsness loves them. I'd surely trust the .338 - 200-gr on elk.

SteveTimm
 
elk are not hard to kill, assuming you can hit a cambells soup can at your presumed shooting distance. shoot e'm in the heart or lungs and none of this nit picky stuff even matters.
 
Well said Hillbillyhunter...unfortunately I am not the best marksman and have to use the "OK" principal. (OK = Over Kill). I'd be using a .270 if I knew I could put one dead on every time. I figure with a .338 or a .45-70 they will drop (at least for a second) and I can finish 'em with a second round as they get up.
 
Hillbillyhunter,

I totally agree.

Heck, we're talking about a target that is the size of a freaking water melon. Put a reasonable bullet in the lung/heart and the elk is deader than a dirt clod. What's so hard about that?

I think the problem is that a lot of guys haven't killed enough elk to know this. Also, the gun writers have the shooting public believing that elk are really hard to kill (so you better buy the new Whiz Bang Magnum).

I guided elk hunters for eleven years. My best hunter was a retired mail man (that fella could walk). He shot a .308 with Remington 150-grain Core-Lokt bullets. He limited his shooting to 250 yards and would wait until he had a double lung shot. One shot and it was all over.

Doesn't take a big gun, it doesn't take an exotic bullet and it sure as heck doesn't take benchrest accuracy. Wait a bit, hit the watermelon and collect the elk.

Hey, it's simple.

Steve
 
i think your totally right about the manufacturers hype Steve. also alot of guys really get into studying the ballistics of hand loads. i never have ,....however i assume it would be rewarding to chose exactly how i build my shells and then reap the rwards.
however i hunt elk with a bow. elk are not hard to kill with a bow,...as long as i hit vitals. also i dont wait like the books say. i follw my elk and i finish them immediatly. i do this not for the sake of compassion( although it works out nice that way) but rather because i want that animal dead so i can eat it. if its vital,....they dont get far. if its not,...i need to see where that animal stops beacause they could stop bleeding.
i have also shot elk with my 7 mag. 170 grain factory loads. i dont even worry about brands to much. but when i sight it in with a certain load...consistincy is all thats needed for a hard hitting accurate shot.
 
Hey Steve, heres a question for ya. I'm goin elk hunting next year and I need to work up a load for my 308. So far I have been torn on what bullet to use I was thinking of maybe a Hornady SST 165,Swift Scirocco 165,or one of the Oryx bullets I have heard of.This is not something I will get to do often so I want a bullet that is tough enough to make a difficult shot if I need to. Thanks for any info and welcome to the forum. rogge
 
Friend rogge,

Go for the 165-grain Scirroco. It is absolutely one of the finest bullets out there. Possibly the very best.

The Hornady SST is a good bullet and an accurate one, but it tends to break up.

The Oryx is still an unknown quantity and I wouldn't bet on it until we have lots of field reports.

Personally, I rely on my own experience and personal reports from other gun writers. Some of the guys are stone killers (Barsness, Haviland, Weisheun, Jamison). I trust their advice and they trust mine.

My advice is use the Scirroco.

Good luck, my friend,

Steve
 
I have not taken an elk with a Barnes XLC, but I know guys that have and they say they are awesome. They have used them in Africa and here in Colorado. I have 180gr for my 30-06 and they are accurate as heck otu of my Tikka. They aren't handloads, they are just factory Federal Premium. They are supposed to keep pretty close to 100% of their weight because of the all copper construction and when they pedal out into the "X", they are supposed to spin and cause my damage. I cannot wait to try them out, because I didn't get a chance to last year because of the nice weather...no elk.

That said, my wife's grandfather has shot more deer and elk than he can count and he believes in speed. That is not what the terminal ballistics(TWBA) reports show, they say a bigger hole and deeper one is the key. They also say that hydrostatic damage isn't really a factor because most organs are elastic and can take the temporary wound channel with no problems.I have seen the formulas for a fast, light bullet vs. a slower, bigger bullet and the bigger one has more energy.
That said, he's always used a 270 and/or a 30-06. He likes the smaller, faster bullets. He did say that he tried ballistic tips once, but they blew up on the shoulder 2 times and blew up in the neck on the 3rd shot. He had a Nosler Partition that finally put it down ( he had used them before that and used them since)and he will not change from Nosler, except for the Barnes. The ballistic tips he used were years ago, I'm sure and they're better now.
I still don't know how they'd hold up if they hit something close, though. Or if they happen to hit a twig or something on the way through.
I guess there's just going to be two camps on this, and the main thing is still the placement of the shot. The bigger bullets just tend to give you a little more insurance, I think.

I hit a Mulie doe this past season with a 150gr Remington bronze tip and it didn't quite penetrate all the way through from 175 yds or so. It did stop in the opposite flank after taking out the lungs, though. Dropped her right where she stood and she was long dead by the time we got there. She was a good sized one too with lots of fat for the coming winter.

And a 180gr Barnes XLC does ruin a jackrabbit's day in a hurry!
 
Dawg, Dont use a Balistic tip bullet for elk.
If you want the same Coafficient, shoot a new bullet from swift called the scirocco, it has a balistic tip but holds togather like a trophy bonded bear claw. Good bullets you ought to try em. I dont alow Balistic tips on my ranch for elk. To many bad tracking jobs. Good luck Al.
 
Hey 250 Savage...

You are right, not all writers who write can shoot. And you supply ample evidence with your myriad of typos that not all those who shoot can write.

Most writers I know (I am one myself) shoot more than the average person. I know Steve Timm, and I would bet on him if you two were to have a "friendly little contest."

Guess we got off track on that one, huh?

Oh, BTW, I have shot game with 150 grain 7mm Nosler BTs in Alaska, Africa, and Asia, in addition to the mundane fare of the lower 48. Worked great for me; never lost an animal with one. And these were not "writer's hunts" in case you are wondering- all paid for by little old me, so I was free to pick any bullet I wanted.
 
Interesting topic.

I for one am glad to have Steve as part of this forum. Diverse experiences help everyone.

As for the topic, I have had great success with the Nosler Partition. On my Alaska caribou hunt, I shot my animal at 214 yards with my 300 Win mag. I was using 180 grain partitions. The bullet broke both front shoulders, and did not exit. Needless to say, the caribou did not go anywhere. My son shot his caribou with his .270 shooting 150 grain partitions. His was shot at 300 yards. I know this because we had a laser range finder. The bullet entered just behind the shoulder and exited the opposite side on a broadside shot. The caribou took 5 steps, then it was all over.

My experience with the Ballistic Tips was over 10 years ago. A friend I was hunting with took a mule deer with a BT bullet. As I remember, he was shooting a .270 with a 150 grain bullet. He shot it in the near side shoulder. It pretty much blew up on the surface and really made a mess of the shoulder. It was a one shot kill, but at the expense of a lot of meat.

From this string, I have learned that the BT's have been changed in the larger calibers. That is good to know. However, I like the idea that there is a lot of bullet behind the partition. That can only help with penetration. Unfortunatly, in life we don't always get the opportunity for that perfect shot. I like the idea of being able to go through bone if necessary to make a clean kill on a once in a lifetime animal.

That being said, it is good we have forums like this so we can learn from other's experiences. Sometimes those stories sound far fetched. But bottom line, we don't know for sure. We weren't there. Who would believe that my 12 year old son shot a caribou at 300 yards and put it down with one shot? It happened, I was there. So I guess my point is this, we need to take these opinions and stories for what they are worth. Then, combined with our own experiences, we need to come up with our own answers. Calling others liars or frauds accomplishes nothing. All it does is make for bad feelings. We don't need those.

I only hope that my experiences might help others in finding the answers they are looking for.

Good luck on the elk hunt.
 
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