17 mach ll expierences

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southarkrob

New member
I know the 17 mach ll is not a coyote round but we have shot 3 coyotes with it since 9-01-08... and all 3 have been in the haymeadow behind our farmhouse (where we deer hunt) I keep it (a magnum research ) next to the backdoor. The latest one was shot this evening rite before dark feeding on some remains of a hog that we killed and dumped along the woodline. My brand new 17 fireball was in the case in the truck....would have loved to got him with it. I still haven't had a chance to go calling yet. Coyotes seem to be getting closer to houses everyday...I have some land leased that I graze cows on and the landowner shot one last week that was chasing one of my calves with a 410 shotgun with #4's...shot it ( a big male) at over 35yds and it ran about 50 yds and piled up. Said all of that to say this..if it is all you have and you can place your bullet the 17 mach ll will do in a pinch...
 
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I didn't post this to start a 17 mach 2 is a coyote gun thread...I was just passing on my results. I have plenty of calling rifles but my mach 2's seem to always be in the truck or leaning beside the door. In this part of the country coyotes aren't looked on by the majority as sporting animals ( I love calling them...but don't get people standing in line to go calling with me... make a call to go deer hunting and they are at the house early) One farmer I know was overrun with coyotes a few years ago and wouldn't let anybody try to call them..he wound up poisoning them. this is my opinion only and not trying to get anybody fired up just passing on my observations...and I was darned impressed with the results.
 
Would you shoot a cape buffalo with a 38 special? how about a 204?

I have shot lots of things with my M2, far as I am concerned its marginal for even prairie dogs. But you go ahead and wound a couple coyotes with it, then we will see how you feel about it. I wish more people had respect enough to use a gun suited for the game they are taking.

If I where you I would edit and delete this topic as fast as I could.
 
I have an HMR and A mach 2 but would never use either for A coyote regardless of "shot placement". I've seen prairie dogs run off after 17 rimfire hits. So if in A pinch go hunt those instead. not trying to sound like A jerk but I feel no matter what, you need to match calibers and prey accordingly
 
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... and all 3 have been in the haymeadow behind our farmhouse (where we deer hunt)...... feeding on some remains of a hog that we killed and dumped along the woodline...... Coyotes seem to be getting closer to houses everyday...



Now what on earth would be bringing them in like that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif?
Furhunter said everything else that needs sayin'.
 
Never said I was hunting them with a mach 2...I keep it beside the backdoor for crows in the pecan trees. The 218 bee and the 17 fball are there now. Every one of them was shot off a steady rest behind the front shoulder I too have had praire dogs run off after being shot with a 6 TCU. I was just trying to relate my experiences... but I can't watch a coyote trot across my haymeadow. I like my deer and turkeys too much...I have a serious coyote problem...in the past couple of years we have shot 2 different coyotes chasing deer on our property during deer season.
 
never shot a yote with a rimfire, but I've shot alot of rifles and I have noticed that the 17 gr v-max does hold togather and penetrates better when shot from the M2 than it does from the HMR. sorta like the difference between shooting a deer with a 150 gr ballistic tip from a 308 vs. the same bullet from a 300 WM.

Its my personal opinion that the 17 gr v-max was a complete failure in the 17 HMR, it just turns to dust on impact, so Hornady necked the 22 stinger case down and slowed it down 300 fps and its now a usable small game round.

In my experience, once game weight exceeds about 8 pounds, the results from the M2 change drasticly, shooting woodchucks, almost all young ones are killed on impact, almost all mature ones get back to the den to die. I did take a 14# sow at 248 yds with my M2, she expired 5 ft from the den, but she was 40 yards from it when I shot her, only part of the bullet I found was the polymer tip just under the hide at the entrance wound, no exit, lots of bruising on the offside ribs, no fragments, grit, nothing!
RR
 
That is what I was trying to say...the 17 grain bullet does alot better than you expect...the first one I shot was a little over 100 yds ..hit him behind the shoulder and he ran 40 yards and piled up. Found an entrance hole and no exit. If it hadn't been mangy I would have looked to see what damage was done. I have killed lots of squirrels with my mach 2's ( I have 3 of em) and have never had one crawl off after being hit, have alot better results on squirrels with mach 2's than I ever have with a 22 rimfire. Predator control is exactly what alot people around here are doing. I know alot of farmers and ranchers and if you look in there trucks the majority of them will have a 22 mag or an HMR in the front seat and they make some shots on em that you wouldn't believe. If you have ever seen what a pack of coyotes will do to a $500 dollar calf alot of these people wouldn't be knocking what some people do. Don't get me wrong I love the feeling when a coyote breaks from cover and comes into the decoy...I rate it right up there when a big buck walks out... but when you have thousands of dollars invested in cattle your view changes alittle. Once again this is my opinion and not meant to make anyone mad...I have learned lots from this site and there are alot of great guys on here.
 
Don't worry about it Southarkbob. I was one of the 17hmr guys too. I still have to use it on our states public land. It is a case of terrain, shooting ability and patience.

Most of the guys one this board know that we all do the best we can with what we have. Hunting and protecting cows are no different in that respect. Given a choice, I will use my AR15, but on public land I will take my HMR so I can at least have a 125 yard range.

Keep in mind, that even with so many people bashing the use of the hmr, those people all seem to like the 22 Mag. That is a lot of the problem. Also, there are a select few who prefer the challenge to use a high end airgun on coyotes. Most of which have less velocity and energy than the Mach II. But they don't post on this board that I have seen, and I can understand why.


Side note, PM me sometime. I travel down to the south side of the state about once a month. Maybe we could meet and make a couple of quick stands. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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If you have ever seen what a pack of coyotes will do to a $500 dollar calf alot of these people wouldn't be knocking what some people do.



Souther, how many calves have you lost to coyotes? I have spent most of my adult life ranching for a living, so be realistic. Sure, a new born will occasionally be lost to coyotes, but not very common. As far as a calf being worth $500, well ok. Just like a pile of lumber is worth the same thing as a finished house . But, I understand, lots make this statement in order to add justification to the fact that you just wanted to shoot at a coyote. But, in your first post, you alluded to the fact that the coyotes were in your deer hunting area, and you expressed concern over their well being. This to me is even more ironic, because deer in the numbers found in southern Ark will probably cause more economic loss to ranchers(via leptospirosis and vibriosis)
than coyotes ever will.

So, basically, you wanted to shoot a coyote. Fine, just dont come on here trying to sell the idea that the 17 m2 is an adequate yet misunderstood coyote round, or that you are protecting livestock and wildlife from packs of killer coyotes.
 
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all of this bashing one another is starting to look like youtube /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



No Getfoxy, its getting to be more like 'Myspace'.
 
Up here the state leg. is passing a bill to compensate ranchers for livestock
lost to wolves and grizzly's as the feds just don't pony up like they are supposed to by law. A lot of what is lost is due to the animals being run by
predators and losing pounds, breaking legs and having to be put down. Our
forefathers killed off all of these predators for a good reason. Now all the
veggies want them in our back yard. Do a google on predation in montana
and see the damage these things do. They kill everything they can catch, and
don't stop to eat it if there is more to kill. So leave the farmers to their own
wits to make a living. It's your food you are driving up the cost of when you
take an adversarial position. Farmers up here watch antelope elk and deer eat
10's of thousands of dollars a year in crops, stomp and piss on a lot more
and still don't hate them like they do predators.
 
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If you have ever seen what a pack of coyotes will do to a $500 dollar calf alot of these people wouldn't be knocking what some people do.



Souther, how many calves have you lost to coyotes? I have spent most of my adult life ranching for a living, so be realistic. Sure, a new born will occasionally be lost to coyotes, but not very common. As far as a calf being worth $500, well ok. Just like a pile of lumber is worth the same thing as a finished house . But, I understand, lots make this statement in order to add justification to the fact that you just wanted to shoot at a coyote. But, in your first post, you alluded to the fact that the coyotes were in your deer hunting area, and you expressed concern over their well being. This to me is even more ironic, because deer in the numbers found in southern Ark will probably cause more economic loss to ranchers(via leptospirosis and vibriosis)
than coyotes ever will.

So, basically, you wanted to shoot a coyote. Fine, just dont come on here trying to sell the idea that the 17 m2 is an adequate yet misunderstood coyote round, or that you are protecting livestock and wildlife from packs of killer coyotes.




I will have to disagree with you on this one. I don't know how long "Most of my adult life" is. Nor do I know whether you are ranching for someone else, or for yourself. Nor do I know whether you are in free range country. Regardless, you certainly no very little about our area.

Our problem with loosing calves are more of a mix of Coyotes and coydogs and quite a few wild dog packs. If you don't have that mix, then you should feel lucky. With that said, you cannot tell me that they are not a problem. I know one farmer in particular that lost 4 calves in one night to a pack. These were in a birthing pen and "secure" but they came in through the barn and got to them. Ate the rear end out and left.

I can also say that if you were to say what you said face to face to that cattle farmer, he would have probably punched you in the mouth saying that a calf is not worth money. When your livelihood depends only on your livestock, you tend to care. I guess you might be dealing with someone else's cattle because out of the many farmers I know. All of them care about loosing stock to predator. They don't like loosing money.

Whatever the case is, use what you have, get the job done and go about your business.
 
CJ, This thread is starting to stray far from its original direction. As a matter of fact, the title has even been changed. But, I will address some of your questions.

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I don't know how long "Most of my adult life" is.


I am 42 years old. I grew up on my families ranch. It raised me and my two sisters and put us through college. I graduated with a degree in Animal science(ranch management), and a degree in business(emphasis on ag business). Managed a very large corporate ranch, and then moved on to my own(preconditioning operation)

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Nor do I know whether you are ranching for someone else, or for yourself.


Answered above, although I don't see the relevance.

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Nor do I know whether you are in free range country.


You may need to clarify that statement.By my definition, 'free range' does not exist anymore.(again another tangent)

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Regardless, you certainly no very little about our area.


True, I doubt I could find my way around downtown Beebe, but I have had a little experience with the cattle business.

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Our problem with loosing calves are more of a mix of Coyotes and coydogs and quite a few wild dog packs.



We are starting to stray again. Which is it? Coyotes or feral dogs? There is a huge difference in the dynamics of the two. Also, 4 calves in one night, all within the same pen? That is a very substantial loss for anyone. Was wildlife services contacted, or fish and game?

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I can also say that if you were to say what you said face to face to that cattle farmer, he would have probably punched you in the mouth saying that a calf is not worth money.


CJ, before we start throwing punches, reread what I said. The claim was that the calf was worth $500. I will try to explain my point. First, a new born calf weighs approx 80lbs. Now lets say that average calf prices last week were $109/cwt. In order to get $500 from that animal, it must weigh approx 458 lbs.
Now, there is 378lbs needed to get to the $500 value. Those lbs will not be gained with out some inputs(expence) by the rancher. Now that the calf is dead, he will not incur those expences. I will grant that some expences are fixed, and can not be averted, simply due to the 'biology' of the situation(9 month gestation etc). For this reason, the ranchers loss is more than $87.20($1.09x80lbs) but less than $500. Although, the $500 sounds more dramatic.

Of course, all this has strayed far from the original topic of someone praising the merits of the 17m2 on coyotes while stifling the coyote depredation on the whitetail population behind their house.
It would have been much easier to say, 'there was a coyote in my back yard, all I had available was a 17m2, and since it was legal, I shot it. To my amazement, the 17m2 actually killed it'.
 
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It would have been much easier to say, 'there was a coyote in my back yard, all I had available was a 17m2, and since it was legal, I shot it. To my amazement, the 17m2 actually killed it'.



Hmmmmmm.......

I just read this entire thread. Best I can tell, that's basically what he said. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
yep...it is funny how off topic we get. I was gonna ask a similar question 17hmr or .204 for fox? I dont own either just want a good trustworthy answer, I have larger rifles for larger game, so what do you all think for fox?
 

Some of you guys are such idiots. Read the post and actually comprehend what he's saying.


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I know the 17 mach ll is not a coyote round.......

******** That spells it out real plainly.


I keep it (a magnum research ) next to the backdoor.

********* I'd shoot a coyote with whatever was at hand.



"My brand new 17 fireball was in the case in the truck....would have loved to got him with it."

********* But it wasn't, so he used what was there.



" Said all of that to say this..if it is all you have and you can place your bullet the 17 mach ll will do in a pinch..."
********** Note "....if it is all you have..." Obviously it DID do in a pinch. Now if a couple of you guys still don't get it, go back and read again.



 
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