Another Shotgun load for coyotes post, with pattern pictures.
- Thread starter derbyacresbob
- Start date
GC
Well-known member
I just ordered some more shells for when my choke comes back and the next real patterning session begins. All are .12 gauge, 3" magnum loadings. I've talked about them for awhile now, and Byron, Randy, and a few other posters here have started me thinking, it's time to burn some powder...
I'll have Federal Premium No. Four Buckshot, Dead Coyote T's, Remington HD BB's, and Remington HD T's. I'm excluding the Winchester and Federal loadings because of two reasons. First they are only 1 3/8 ounces of B or BB size shot. I'd prefer at least the 1 1/2 ounces of BB size, or, larger shot as the Dead Coyote and Remington HD loads provide, and, at least 1,300 fps velocity. Second, because of the cost - all this denser than lead stuff is expensive and the wife rolled her eyes when I said, "Honey, science isn't cheap!" The four loads I'm taking to the range seem to me to be be the "best of the best" offerings at this time. I'll shoot all loads from a .680" ported Kick's BuckKicker choke and from two Benelli shotguns, one a 24" barrel and one 18 1/2" barrel. I "may" try to chronograph the loads for muzzle velocity from these two barrels. I'll shoot at 25, 40, and 50 yards. If a load is knocking the center out at 50 yards, I try it at 60 just to see how it shakes out. I hope to take lots of pictures and have a pretty detailed post of the results. I'm trying to schedule this for October 10th, hoping for good weather. If anyone has suggestions, or wants to offer some help in some way, I'm all ears... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I'll have Federal Premium No. Four Buckshot, Dead Coyote T's, Remington HD BB's, and Remington HD T's. I'm excluding the Winchester and Federal loadings because of two reasons. First they are only 1 3/8 ounces of B or BB size shot. I'd prefer at least the 1 1/2 ounces of BB size, or, larger shot as the Dead Coyote and Remington HD loads provide, and, at least 1,300 fps velocity. Second, because of the cost - all this denser than lead stuff is expensive and the wife rolled her eyes when I said, "Honey, science isn't cheap!" The four loads I'm taking to the range seem to me to be be the "best of the best" offerings at this time. I'll shoot all loads from a .680" ported Kick's BuckKicker choke and from two Benelli shotguns, one a 24" barrel and one 18 1/2" barrel. I "may" try to chronograph the loads for muzzle velocity from these two barrels. I'll shoot at 25, 40, and 50 yards. If a load is knocking the center out at 50 yards, I try it at 60 just to see how it shakes out. I hope to take lots of pictures and have a pretty detailed post of the results. I'm trying to schedule this for October 10th, hoping for good weather. If anyone has suggestions, or wants to offer some help in some way, I'm all ears... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Lungbuster
New member
GC,
Have you heard anymore about Hevi-shot starting to offer #4 buckshot?
Have you heard anymore about Hevi-shot starting to offer #4 buckshot?
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
GC, I will be watching for the results of your pattern session. I am very interested in how the Remington Wingmaster HD 3" BB load patterns for you. I am going to order some of the HD BB's also. When I get them I will compare the penetration on the HD BB's to the penetration of the Federal Premium copper coated lead BB's.
Weasel-UT, for checking penetration, why can't we just shoot into a phone book and count the pages that are penetrated and compare the total pages penetrated?
Weasel-UT, for checking penetration, why can't we just shoot into a phone book and count the pages that are penetrated and compare the total pages penetrated?
GC
Well-known member
Testing penetration would be a useful and cool bit of info to add... I think water soaked phone books would be a good uniform media that is commonly available. Could probably only do one shot of each type of load. That'd add considerably to the work load. Probably need more shells of each type too... I'm thinking this one over, it is an excellent suggestion. The interesting thing would be to test the Dead Coyote's Hevi-Shot T-pellet against the Remington HD T-size pellet at the same advertised velocity. Also to fire the Winchester and/or Federal load as they advertise being 150 fps faster (1,450 fps) than the Dead Coyote or Remington HD (1,300 fps). The question would be how much more penetration would that extra 150 fps give an equal size pellet, say a BB pellet. The problem would be they aren't of the same material, weight, exterior finish, ext. How valid would the results be given those factors? Interesting stuff...
Concerning the Hevi-Shot No. Four Buck, that bit was told me some time ago, a year or more by an "insider" in the industry. So far, I've not seen, or heard, that's going to happen. The 00 Buck did come about, so who knows. I may try to call the rep that told me that and see if he has any new news about this. Some of these guys want to sell a lot of stuff, and that includes plenty of hype. This guy seemed pretty sincere, but I don't know him well enough to place absolute trust in what he's told me. This was taking place when Remington and Hevi-Shot were partnered, now these two have split the sheets, who knows?
Concerning the Hevi-Shot No. Four Buck, that bit was told me some time ago, a year or more by an "insider" in the industry. So far, I've not seen, or heard, that's going to happen. The 00 Buck did come about, so who knows. I may try to call the rep that told me that and see if he has any new news about this. Some of these guys want to sell a lot of stuff, and that includes plenty of hype. This guy seemed pretty sincere, but I don't know him well enough to place absolute trust in what he's told me. This was taking place when Remington and Hevi-Shot were partnered, now these two have split the sheets, who knows?
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
GC, I ordered some 3" HD shells in BB and T shot. I will find some phone books that are the same kind, soak them and do a penetration test. I have the shells to compare Dead Coyote T to HD T and HD BB's to Federal copper coated lead BB's.
Quote:
GC, I ordered some 3" HD shells in BB and T shot. I will find some phone books that are the same kind, soak them and do a penetration test. I have the shells to compare Dead Coyote T to HD T and HD BB's to Federal copper coated lead BB's.
Make sure you use plenty of thickness to stop the pellets. We shot some water soaked phone books with 1700 fps. steel BB's at 40 yards and they blew right through about 4 inches (wet). The heavier pellets will penetrate even deeper. It might not hurt to use stacked, soaked news papers. They are easy to find and you just have to bind them loosely with string before soaking them. Use a big wash tub, or kiddy pool. Even a 5 gallon bucket may not be big enough.
GC, I ordered some 3" HD shells in BB and T shot. I will find some phone books that are the same kind, soak them and do a penetration test. I have the shells to compare Dead Coyote T to HD T and HD BB's to Federal copper coated lead BB's.
Make sure you use plenty of thickness to stop the pellets. We shot some water soaked phone books with 1700 fps. steel BB's at 40 yards and they blew right through about 4 inches (wet). The heavier pellets will penetrate even deeper. It might not hurt to use stacked, soaked news papers. They are easy to find and you just have to bind them loosely with string before soaking them. Use a big wash tub, or kiddy pool. Even a 5 gallon bucket may not be big enough.
Like Weasel, I used plywood for a visual on [buckshot]pellet energy/penetration & patterning. Worked well for me. Depending on my pattern/yardage & plywood penetration. [Minimum thickness] being 1/4" plywood.
If that particular ga. pellet held a decent pattern. Et either punched on through or @ a [minimum] splintered on the exit, the sheet of 1/4" plywood. Then I called that good @ that particular yardage. Unlike most shotgun coyote killers. Most of my shots were long range.
If that particular ga. pellet held a decent pattern. Et either punched on through or @ a [minimum] splintered on the exit, the sheet of 1/4" plywood. Then I called that good @ that particular yardage. Unlike most shotgun coyote killers. Most of my shots were long range.
Quote:
More food for thought.
We have or at least most of us have strived to come up with ways of extending the effective range of our shotguns to the point that under 25 or so yards we basically are shooting rifles and not scatter guns. In most the situations I employ a shotgun I know my shots will be limited to about 40 yards or so and many time closer than that. When I do get a coyote that close my 60 yard coyote shotgun is not much more effective at making hits than a rifle. I'm a rifleman at heart but understand the advantages of the shotgun when engageing fast coyotes in thick cover. This year I'm backing off my super tight chokes to a more open pattern in hopes of better coverage on the "SHOTGUN RANGE" predators. Basically what I'm saying is if you have a shotgun that is by chance shooting a good pattern at 60-70 yards or so you are basically shooting a rifle at ranges under 25 or so. I may go back to my tight chokes after a short while but for now I'm choking my shotgun for 15-45 yard coyotes and I'm leaving the 70 yard coyotes to the rifle.
Sorry to go on so long. I wrote this in a hurry and in between work and phone calls so I hope it makes since.
Good Hunting and God Bless,
Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Byron,
Well said..........been patterning some shotguns lately myself. Playing around looking for that magical 40-50 yard tight pattern while in the back of my head realizing "this is shooting a near perfect 25 yard pattern now, the fox/coyote will likely be on a trot and in typical shotgun fashion I will have to point and shoot quickly/off hand rather than take time and aim from sticks like a rifle at distance.
Playing around with a 12ga 3.5" full choke and a old Winchester Model 12 12/mod choke that I just luv and with no. 4 non plated buck at 25 yards I like the looks (patterns) and feel (pointing) of the ol Win. Model 12 better.
For me.......I will be in the woods & brush. If it was open in all areas to 50 yards I would bring a rifle.
Good point you made.
More food for thought.
We have or at least most of us have strived to come up with ways of extending the effective range of our shotguns to the point that under 25 or so yards we basically are shooting rifles and not scatter guns. In most the situations I employ a shotgun I know my shots will be limited to about 40 yards or so and many time closer than that. When I do get a coyote that close my 60 yard coyote shotgun is not much more effective at making hits than a rifle. I'm a rifleman at heart but understand the advantages of the shotgun when engageing fast coyotes in thick cover. This year I'm backing off my super tight chokes to a more open pattern in hopes of better coverage on the "SHOTGUN RANGE" predators. Basically what I'm saying is if you have a shotgun that is by chance shooting a good pattern at 60-70 yards or so you are basically shooting a rifle at ranges under 25 or so. I may go back to my tight chokes after a short while but for now I'm choking my shotgun for 15-45 yard coyotes and I'm leaving the 70 yard coyotes to the rifle.
Sorry to go on so long. I wrote this in a hurry and in between work and phone calls so I hope it makes since.
Good Hunting and God Bless,
Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Byron,
Well said..........been patterning some shotguns lately myself. Playing around looking for that magical 40-50 yard tight pattern while in the back of my head realizing "this is shooting a near perfect 25 yard pattern now, the fox/coyote will likely be on a trot and in typical shotgun fashion I will have to point and shoot quickly/off hand rather than take time and aim from sticks like a rifle at distance.
Playing around with a 12ga 3.5" full choke and a old Winchester Model 12 12/mod choke that I just luv and with no. 4 non plated buck at 25 yards I like the looks (patterns) and feel (pointing) of the ol Win. Model 12 better.
For me.......I will be in the woods & brush. If it was open in all areas to 50 yards I would bring a rifle.
Good point you made.