AR-15 vs bolt

I was a firm bolt gun owner. About 4yrs ago my brother picked up his first ar. Shot as good if not a little better than his bolt guns. I got my first one a year later. Factory off the self RRA predator. Shot it. Didn't like the feel of it. Shot it somemore. Shot some really great groups with it. Got another one (R-25) in 243. Got another one. Took all the bolt guns and ar's to SD prarie dog hunting this summer. My oldest grabbed the 223 bolt gun and I grabbed the r-25 went to shooting. About 20min later he wanted to go get the predator. All the while my dad was shooting his 22-250 bolt gun. We took a break and went out to inspect some damage. Ranged back to the shooting position. Longest one shot kill with the r-25 was just over 450yds. Longest one that I made with the predator was 375. And the longest shot that my dad had was 350yds. But what made me a firm ar shooter was that I went 5 for 5 on one dog mound at 200yds as I rolled the first one the second one made a mad dash for the hole and rolled that one and so on and so on. All the while my dad was watching and It made him a firm as fan after that. He is now a first time ar owner. And I gues what he told me that day will stick with me. If you can roll that many that fast I might have to get one because they sure must beable to group. And all my ar's are factory guns. The 243 really doesn't tear up the yotes too bad either.
 
when I take a pile of guns to the range, my daughter's #1 pick to shoot is my AR. One of these days I'm gonna have to buy her one of her own.
 
Originally Posted By: Tommy DDr hide,
Bolts are typically more accurate then AR's.

Not true. Most ar's will outshoot stock bolts

~Bryan
 
Originally Posted By: SodakJim...I shot over 1200 P-dogs last year, without a single hangup in my RRA...
Jim, aren't we exaggerate a bit? 1200? really? You realize that more than 3 a day, everyday, including holidays, do you really hunt so much? If so, what do you do for a living because I need that gig pronto! :)
On AR topic, I would go what you feel comfortable with, granted AR is awesome on follow up shots but then again how often do you have 5 dogs running towards you like there is no tomorrow...
My 2 cents
 
I gave some thought to an earlier reply and giving that friend a hard time for taking his "single shot" rifle.In all fairness, if I went out calling with my AR and the first stand of the day 5 yotes bust out...I might soil myself and miss em all too...doubtful but with the luck or lack of that I have had lately?
seriously though drhide you might ask around and maybe a friend has an AR you could, "take for a spin",or just drop the cash and try one out. I`m not sure but I don`t think it would lose that much value?
thanks to all that shared in this thread I enjoyed it
 
Originally Posted By: bklnOriginally Posted By: SodakJim...I shot over 1200 P-dogs last year, without a single hangup in my RRA...
Jim, aren't we exaggerate a bit? 1200? really? You realize that more than 3 a day, everyday, including holidays, do you really hunt so much? If so, what do you do for a living because I need that gig pronto! :)
On AR topic, I would go what you feel comfortable with, granted AR is awesome on follow up shots but then again how often do you have 5 dogs running towards you like there is no tomorrow...
My 2 cents

it isnt uncommon for serious pdog shooters to drop 50+ a day. I cant speak for 1200 myself, but i dont think it is an outlandish number.
and if you get lucky enough to get guided pdog hunts or get to go to places with proper pdog hunting...5+ at one time is no where near uncommon. you'd be more likely to shoot till your out of ammo, and pause to switch mags.
 
1200 prairie dogs is nothing. I have seen people shoot that many in a weekend.
When shooting ground squirrels, which are a lot smaller than prairie dogs, I kill 60 an hour. I could shoot a lot faster but the barrel gets too hot.

Jack
 
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Originally Posted By: bklnOriginally Posted By: SodakJim...I shot over 1200 P-dogs last year, without a single hangup in my RRA...
Jim, aren't we exaggerate a bit? 1200? really? You realize that more than 3 a day, everyday, including holidays, do you really hunt so much? If so, what do you do for a living because I need that gig pronto! :)
On AR topic, I would go what you feel comfortable with, granted AR is awesome on follow up shots but then again how often do you have 5 dogs running towards you like there is no tomorrow...
My 2 cents


Please don't take this the wrong way, but how many PD towns are there in NY? Out west I have shot on towns that cover 5+ sq. miles w/ literaly 10s of thousands of PDs. In the spring when the pups are young and dumb its a slaughter. 1200 is by no means a far stretch.
 
Hey you guys are great and have gave me a lot to go on. I want to thak you all for all the info. that you guys gave and more than likely I will end up with a AR in my hands. Guns have came a long way from the time I was a kid and I am not that old.
Geee I will have to get to know a few of you that PDog hunt because I have a 12 year old that would eat something like that up. I live in Oklahoma so it would have to be a vac. trip to the west. Thanks guy your great.
 
Originally Posted By: bklnOriginally Posted By: SodakJim...I shot over 1200 P-dogs last year, without a single hangup in my RRA...
Jim, aren't we exaggerate a bit? 1200? really? You realize that more than 3 a day, everyday, including holidays, do you really hunt so much? If so, what do you do for a living because I need that gig pronto! :)
On AR topic, I would go what you feel comfortable with, granted AR is awesome on follow up shots but then again how often do you have 5 dogs running towards you like there is no tomorrow...
My 2 cents

Yep!, You need to get out of New York and do some P-dog shooting. I usually go after my buddy gets off work, maybe once or twice a week. We hunt on 3 dog towns over a mile long and about 500 yards wide. We average around 200 each time we go out there, between the two of us. I have friends in Montana and Wyoming that kill 3 times as many as we do. The funny thing is, we don't seem to make a dent in the P-dog population. We rarely need to shoot over 150 yards most of the time so the misses are not very often. Needless to say, we reload a lot of 223 ammo. We usually bring about 200 rounds each, and many times it's gone in 2 hours. In late spring and summer, the young ones are plentiful and stupid. You often see 5-10 on a couple mounds close together. Also, keep in mind, these are heavy, tricked out ARs, over 12 pounds, and not you garden variety 16 in. carbines.

I have been retired for 5 years now, and there isn't that much else to do in rural South Dakota but hunt and fish. Your right, it is a good gig.
 
I hunt with both bolt rifles and AR's. In ten years of calling, I've only had three times where I've had three coyotes come in together. (Real triples) The first time I scored 0 since they winded me before they topped a rise in a field and scattered. On the second occasion I killed one at 75 yards, the second running straight away at 150 yards, and the third stopped to look back at 430 yards with my Remington 700 in .243 Winchester. An AR would have made little difference, and a .223 would most likely have failed to kill the third coyote that I hit in the rear hip with the .243. The Sierra Game King punched clear through and left a fist size exit, disabling the yote. On the third triple responce I killed the first at 40 yards, the second running straight away at about 75 yards, and the third ducked into the brush just as I found it in my scope. One more second and I would have got off the third shot. An AR would have possibly got me a triple. I've had maybe 5 or 6 times where I've had doubles come in together. I've managed to take both coyotes all but twice, where I missed a running shot on the second coyotes. An AR would not have been much of a factor in producing more doubles.

In regards to accuracy potential, I've found that both of my AR's shoot every bit as well as my bolt rifles. My .223 AR will shoot .5 MOA and my 6.8 SPC AR will shoot into the .4's. My best shooting bolt rifle is my Remington 700 SPS stainless in .22-250 that will hold .5 MOA with my handloads. I find it easier to shoot .5 inch groups with the AR's and do it more often. My 700 in .243 will go .75 and my 700 in .223 struggles to stay under an inch. I'll give the accuracy advantage to the AR's.

All in all my view is that the AR could come in handy when multiple coyotes come in together. It's rare that more than two come in together here so this is mostly a non-issue with me. My bolt action rifles offer an advantage in powerful, flat shooting calibers such as my .243 and my .22-250. I don't like using .223's to shoot 40 pound coyotes as I feel I get to many spinners and runners. I've gone to the 6.8 SPC to up my power level, but now find I have issues with the trajectory of the 6.8 ammo. Sixteen inch holdover at 300 yards is becoming a bit excessive. I prefer holding on fur with my bolt guns at that range. Both of my AR's are 16" carbines. The 6.8 has a recon profile barrel, while the .223 has an H-bar weight barrel. They are both light and carry easily. My bolt rifles are both sporter weight and also carry easily. No advantage to either style here to me. The AR has the issue of noise while chambering a round, while the bolts rifles can be loaded quietly. Not a real big deal but something to consider.

I like lightweight calling rifles so I won't even consider an AR 10. Besides the weight, there's also the cost to consider. I'll use my bolt guns first. I've considered a WSSM AR-15, but the uppers are expensive. I can buy a bolt action Sako, with no scope, or a Remington, or two Savage's, and scope them for the cost of an upper.

Dollar for Dollar, I'm thinking a quality bolt action rifle is every bit as effective as an AR. More powerful, flat shooting calibers at half the cost as a comparable caliber in an AR platform. If you don't mind shooting coyotes with a .223 then an AR would be the way to go. If you don't like spinners and runners, I'd go with a bolt action in .22-250 or .243 Winchester.

Coyote 6974
 
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I used bolt guns for coyotes for 20yrs. Went to an AR 3 yrs ago and dont think I will change back any time soon. I now have 4 AR's. They are as accurate as my bolt guns and I like the ability for quick follow up shots.

I have called in doubles often, 5 coyotes once and 6 once. With a bolt gun, two is possible. With an AR, I can get off shots twice as fast. I'm keeping the AR for calling. The bolt guns work for pdogs.
 
I shoot a .243WSSM AR and consistently shoot .4moa with hand loaded 75Vmax and Varget. 3200fps (no where neer max)
I have a 200m zero. Shoots 1" high at 100, and 7" low at 300 and I am still getting 900 ft lbs of energy at 2350fps.
I got my first AR with a WSSM upper specifically because I knew i could build different cal uppers if the need arises. Yes, the WSSM upper is probably more expensive than an off the shelf bolt gun, but to me, that wasnt the point. Over the course of 3-4 different cal uppers...it basically averages out.
lets just say for instance...
my .243WSSM complete set up runs 1500
I build a .223 upper for $500
I buy a .7mmWSSM upper for 800
I buy a 338LM Bolt Action AR Upper for 1200.

Now I have a .223, .243WSSM, .7mmWSSM, and a 338LM for $4000 (less optics) that will all fit in one Pelican Case. a VERY reasonable price if you consider that they will all shoot sub MOA and if you want to buy 4 bolt guns to do the same thing, you're going to be looking for custom set ups or at the very least, a top shelf weapon.
 
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