ONE BAD .20cal!

Posted by: Austin Laughlin

ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 10:26 AM

So Iíve got my 204 AI, and I love that thing. Itís a screamer, and shoots lights out.

But this morning, I took advantage of buying a Rem 700 in a 22-250 with a shot out barrel.

Im sure you can prolly see where this is going.. But I canít take it any longer. Iíve had the 20-250 bug for a couple years now. So when I found that rifle this morning I couldnít get there fast enough to get it bought.

I may totally fail at this, but Iím hands down going to give it all Iíve got. I was just hoping someone here, has been around one or messed with one personally. My dad, Andy Laughlin, said he thought that maybe DAA had one.

My main questions are barrel length and bullet selection.

My goal is not to push big heavy bullets, Im looking at 50gr MAX bullet weight. Iíd like to stay around the 40-45gr range if possible. I was thinking about a 24Ē-26Ē Lija or Shilen barrel in 1:14 or 1:16 maybe.

Iíll have the action trued and bedded. Most likely a Jewel trigger because thatís what I run in every rifle, other than Iíve real been thinking about trying out a Timney. Yadda Yadda Yadda, the rifle will get the works.

I just need some help and advice on bullet and barrel length selection.

Any help with this is greatly appreciated guys. Thanks!

Posted by: 204 AR

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 10:34 AM

In a 20 cal, 40 grainers I'd go no less than 1-11 twist. There is no 50 gr vmax.

Sounds like a neat project. I'd be thinking 40 gr Bib bullets.
Posted by: AWS

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 10:53 AM

+1 on a 1-11 or even ŗ 1-10.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 11:55 AM

Unless your set on one of the barrels you mentioned, PacNor makes a great barrel as well. With all new tooling in their shop it might be worth a look.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 12:50 PM

Iím not set on anything at all, Iím totally open to everything. Thereís far more of you guys that have done far more than I have. Iíll take any and all recommendations.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 12:52 PM

Iíll definitely do that then, I was just rough guessing on what twist I would need with light bullets at the insane speed Iím planning on. I didnít want the rotation making the bullet come apart obviously. Iíll take all the help I can get, so Iíll definitely do that.

And I meant 50gr max bullet weight, not as in the Vmax or Amax bullets. I seen where that sounded kind of confusing so I changed my post a little. I apologize for that.
Posted by: alf

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 01:50 PM


Not cartridge related, but.....

I've had more than my share of big, fat, long, heavy barrels.....

On a packing, carrying, hunting, calling gun, anymore, I refuse to build with anything bigger than a regular #3 sporter contour barrel, & 24" max length, with 22-23" preferred.
Posted by: Tim Neitzke

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 01:57 PM

What will a 20-250 do that a 204 AI won't do ?
Posted by: alf

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Tim Neitzke
What will a 20-250 do that a 204 AI won't do ?

Cut barrel life in half? grin
Posted by: Tim Neitzke

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 02:15 PM

Originally Posted By: alf
Originally Posted By: Tim Neitzke
What will a 20-250 do that a 204 AI won't do ?

Cut barrel life in half? grin


lol lol
Posted by: crapshoot

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 02:28 PM

I believe DAA might have have played with a 20-250.
Posted by: DAA

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 03:40 PM

Yup, I have one. Built it about 15 years ago. Neat rig.



Here's my long write up:

The .20-250

- DAA
Posted by: B23

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 03:46 PM

I had a 20-250 built on a trued SA Rem 700 a couple years ago but I only ever intended to shoot the Berger 55's so mine wears a Krieger 8tw finished at 26. I'm using necked down Lapua 22-250 brass and RL16 with those Berger 55's and it shoots them really well.

If you only plan to shoot 40-45gr bullets at the heaviest a 10tw is what I'd put on it.

As for powders, if velocity and shooting those bullets extremely fast is what you are after RL17 is likely going to be you best bet on powder. RL16 will work well too and be more temp stable but it won't produce quite the same velocity RL17 will.

It sounds like you're already aware but these things are pretty overbore so barrel life isn't going to be very long. I'm hoping for around 600 rnds before the throat in mine is toast. I don't think anyone ever really builds a 20-250 with barrel life in mind though.

FWIW, if you just have a desire to build a 20-250 by all means go for it. I think they're a bit of a specialized gun and keep in mind you can shoot a 40gr Vmax from a 22-250 faster than you can a 40gr from a 20-250. I know the BC of the 20 cal 40Vmax is slightly better but with the extra speed of the 22 cal 40Vmax the ballistics even out not to mention a 22-250 is more versatile. Just food for thought.

As for triggers, if you are used to a Jewell, well, IMO nothing quite feels as good but they are more delicate than others. TriggerTech triggers makes a really nice trigger and is a bit more robust and not quite as sensitive to being dirty.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 06:46 PM

You guys are awesome! I appreciate all the replies and the help, it sure means a lot. Especially on my barrel twist, I was way off.

DAA, I talked to my ole man and Jason Thee and they told me about the write up, Iíve read it over about 3x already today. I learned a lot and I mean fast. Seems like we had about the same goals.

My uncle shoots a 20BR and itís a screamer, and is a serious shooter, bug holes like Iíve never seen. Heís trying to talk me into going that route instead.. BUT.. As far as I can tell, itíll have to be built as a single shot rifle, because it wonít feed. And thatís not something I want in a calling rifle.

Iíve looked at the 20VT, 20 Practical, BR, all of them. I donít really know why Iím so set on this 20-250 but I just canít help it. I shot a 22-243 for awhile and it was a real animal, and wished I never sold it. But I have been just obsessed with the 20-250 for a long while.

Iím well aware of the short barrel life, I donít at all expect it to live long. But if it lives even 400 rounds, say 100 for shooting, that leaves 300 dead coyotes if I shoot 100% in a perfect world LOL Thatís plenty for me.

I also totally get the 40gr 22-250 vs the 40gr 20-250. I absolutely understand that for sure. I just donít really have any need for the .22 since Iíve got my swift built. Probably still doesnít make sense since Iíve got my 204AI too.. lol but itís just what I want. Im still pondering about it, but I think Im gonna do it.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 06:50 PM

Unless yíall say thereís a better route to go out of this donor rifle. Iím pretty set on the 20-250, no doubt. But if thereís another screamer .20 out there that Iím missing, Iím all ears.
Posted by: DAA

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 07:07 PM

Slick feeding without any fuss or mods was one of my reasons for settling on the .20-250.

You can get the BR cases to feed, but it's money and hassle.

For just plain screaming, my .20 Dasher is one. But it's a long, heavy barrel, single shot, colony varmint rig. It screams like crazy though.

Mongrel Dasher Build

That whole project started with Blaine Eddy calling me one morning. Your old man ought to get a kick out of that.

- DAA
Posted by: B23

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/26/22 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
Unless yíall say thereís a better route to go out of this donor rifle. Iím pretty set on the 20-250, no doubt. But if thereís another screamer .20 out there that Iím missing, Iím all ears.


The only other one I'd consider would be a 20x47 Lapua. In theory, I think the 6.5x47 Lapua is a little better case design than the 22-250 and the 47 Lapua may have a tiny bit more case capacity but it'll require more work with regard to brass prep and depending on the reamer you may need to neck turn but if I went with a 20-47 Lapua build I'd make sure and get/use a no turn reamer so it had enough neck clearance and you wouldn't have to neck turn. I think they call the 20x47's a 20 Satan so they have a catchier name too. smile
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/28/22 07:29 PM

Exactly. Iíd go the BR route in a hurry, but I want one that feeds easily.

If you had to do it over again DAA, would you still go the 20-250 route? Or is there any other route youíd take these days?

What I would GIVE to get my hands on that 14 Pred or that 17 Athena he had. Iíve still got a dummy round of each that he gave me.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/28/22 07:31 PM

WhoaaaaaÖ Youíre onto something. Iím intrigued. I never even thought about the 20x47. I owned the 6 for awhile and I loved that round.

You know anybody or have you yourself dealt with it? Thatís got my attention big time.
Posted by: B23

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/28/22 07:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
WhoaaaaaÖ Youíre onto something. Iím intrigued. I never even thought about the 20x47. I owned the 6 for awhile and I loved that round.

You know anybody or have you yourself dealt with it? Thatís got my attention big time.


Sorry, I have no hands on with one all I know about it is what I've read. In theory I think it's a better case design and the only downside that I could see would be making sure I got the appropriate reamer for neck clearance or possibly having to neck turn. Neck turning isn't the worst thing I've ever done and I'd bet 200 pcs of 6.5x47 Lapua brass would easily outlast the barrel, heck, with the way Lapua brass holds up 100pcs would last the life of a barrel.
Posted by: alf

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/28/22 07:58 PM


Start with 6x47 Peterson brass will get you there faster & easier.....
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 06:48 AM

Alright, I did some digging and youíre 200% right about the better case design. I didnít realize how much better it was till I really read on it.

Iím kicking myself in the rear end hard for selling all my 6x47 stuff. I sold my brass, dies, all of it.

Youíre really onto something here.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 06:49 AM

Can I ask why? I can hold my own when it comes to reloading. But Iíve only been doing it about 3 years. Iím still learning about little stuff.
Posted by: DAA

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 06:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin

If you had to do it over again DAA, would you still go the 20-250 route? Or is there any other route youíd take these days?


I would at least consider/investigate the X47 case, or even the Creedmoor case.

For myself though, having all the dies and components already, I'd probably end up doing the '250 again.

- DAA
Posted by: alf

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 11:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
Can I ask why? I can hold my own when it comes to reloading. But Iíve only been doing it about 3 years. Iím still learning about little stuff.

No point in starting at 6.5 when the Peterson brass is already at 6mm, and is the equal to Lapua in quality.

22x47 - 6x47 - 6.5x47





Posted by: B23

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 11:39 AM

Even though I think the 47 Lapua is a better case design, already having a 20-250 that shoots the Berger 55's extremely well, if I had all to do over again I would probably have a hard time switching to a 20x47.

Since you plan on only shooting lighter bullets the 20-250 is already a lot overbore and going to an even larger case, more overbore, can sometimes be to much of a good thing. If you were wanting to sling the 55's then I'd probably be more compelled to go 20x47 Lapua.

It's a shame Nosler has never developed their 20 Nosler in to production because a 20 cal that had a little more case capacity than a 20BR but on a small bolt face and would feed slick would have been a really fun little cartridge to have, especially for slinging the 40 grainers. But Nosler isn't known for having the greatest brass so we probably would have been left with disappointment anyway.

So! Since there are quit a few of us on here with 20-250's and nobody seems to have a 20x47 I vote Austin Laughlin has a 20x47 built. If for no other reason, just because. There, now it's settled and if for any reason it doesn't work out you can blame me. smile

I know you love those lighter bullets but FWIW, a 20x47 using RL26 out of a 26in tube should hit 3800 with the Berger 55's and if you look at the BC of those 55's they are like a long range ballistic missile. They're about the sleekest sexiest looking bullet you've ever seen. The dam things look like they are going mach 5 just sitting there. Oh, and you'll want at least a 9tw barrel.
Posted by: B23

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 11:44 AM

To many reports from guys I know that have a love hate relationship with Peterson brass. Never heard anyone complain about Lapua brass and 6.5x47 always seems to be available so for me I'll take the extra necking down to stick with Lapua.
Posted by: Bowhunt

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 01:50 PM

I would go with a 1 in 12 24" and shoot 40 grain Bergers
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 03:49 PM

Alright, Iím convinced. I just called my smith and told him Iíd be doing a 20x47 instead. I was so set on the 250 that itís hard to get away from it, but Iíve been doing some serious reading since you mentioned it. And Iím in. All in.

Same barrel twist before I order one? 1:10? Iíd like to shoot the 40s for sure, but if I can get a barrel thatíll shoot the 45-55 range, thatíd be pretty slick in my mind, considering my 204 is built to shoot lighter. Makes sense to be anyway?
Posted by: B23

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 05:45 PM

If you ever want to shoot the 55's you'll want a 9tw.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 09:45 PM

That gonna handicap me on the lighter side though?
Posted by: B23

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/29/22 10:08 PM

With 40's it would put you around 320,000 bullet rpm and depending on the bullet could put you into the danger zone.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: ONE BAD .20cal! - 01/30/22 01:45 PM

Yikes..