workable plan,243 for a bear ?
- Thread starter jetman
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Never used a .243 on bear but have killed many mulies with one. Went out with a local friend I meet while working in Zimbabwe to shoot a couple Impala on his farm, but low and behold big Kudu bull (600lbs). Bang -ran may 30-40yds. He was using a .243. You should be fine.
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problems with the 243 on deer generally relate to using the wrong ammo. hunter uses a load designed for varmints, gets a quartering away shot & experiences a bullet failing to penetrate.
Blaming the caliber is not the correct answer. using a bullet suited for the purpose is.
Blaming the caliber is not the correct answer. using a bullet suited for the purpose is.
coleridge
New member
This is not to call out or raise an eye at NDI, I was serously wondering the situation. I have personally shot 70+ deer with a vmax (I consider one of if not the most explosive bullets), both in .243" & .224". From .224" 55gr (including 60gr) to the 87gr (including the 65 & 75). Most shots were double lungs and the majority of those even had compolete pass throughs. Some shots were less than ideal, yet never failed to reach deep enough to recover the animal. As eveident from that... I've never had one "blow up" on the entrence like he suggested (didn't give enough detail to really know what he ment).
A good friend has killed 34 deer in a row (over the last few seasons) shooting the 65gr vmax from a 6BR using high shoulder shots. None have taken a step, none have needed a repete shot. This isn't hear-say or a guess. It's absolute fact. Yes through cartlidge & bone in the shoulder.
Maybe the several hunters I know personally that have used vmax & other "soft" bullets have been lucky on the combined hundreds of deer we have shot with them...??? (again I'm talking fact that I know about; not guessing)
As a matter of fact, the only "blow up" I have ever had was on a deer from a 140gr Sierra gameking in 7mag. Another shot downed the deer. I'm 99% sure the bullet had already detenated on the brush in front of the deer (weed field). Let me here your detailed horror stories...
A good friend has killed 34 deer in a row (over the last few seasons) shooting the 65gr vmax from a 6BR using high shoulder shots. None have taken a step, none have needed a repete shot. This isn't hear-say or a guess. It's absolute fact. Yes through cartlidge & bone in the shoulder.
Maybe the several hunters I know personally that have used vmax & other "soft" bullets have been lucky on the combined hundreds of deer we have shot with them...??? (again I'm talking fact that I know about; not guessing)
As a matter of fact, the only "blow up" I have ever had was on a deer from a 140gr Sierra gameking in 7mag. Another shot downed the deer. I'm 99% sure the bullet had already detenated on the brush in front of the deer (weed field). Let me here your detailed horror stories...
NdIndy
New member
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: NdIndy Pretty much anything should be able to blow through a deer rib, and yet it didnt.
you saying you hit a deer rib bone with a .243 and it did not go through the rib bone?
Exactly what im saying so roll away
. Less than 200 yards, clear shot, bullet struck rib, rode the rib up and hit spine, rode rib down and recovered in the shoulder. 0, none nada, damage to the internals including the rib. Well, gouged obviously but otherwise intact, but no penetration through the chest. Bullet failed entirely, complete separation. It was luck alone that he didnt just bolt and die a few weeks later. I have what was left of the bullet in my closet atm, the only bullet ive ever recovered.
More than likely a bullet failure but as i said ive been biased against the 243 ever since. I know a lot more now than i did then, but the bias will likely be there until i die. And its been at least 2 hunting seasons since my first. I like it for its original role, after that its a no go for me, havent used one on more than paper.
I min'ed with a 3006 for a lot of years, mainly because i had 1 rifle
now i use 25-06 for the little guys, likeit quite a bit.
So on to the bullet used... No idea. I was 15-16, father loaded,them but he has never loaded for varmint in his life. He was a fan of speer's and boat tails, so my assumption is that is used hot-cor or whatever they were called 20 years ago.
you saying you hit a deer rib bone with a .243 and it did not go through the rib bone?
Exactly what im saying so roll away
More than likely a bullet failure but as i said ive been biased against the 243 ever since. I know a lot more now than i did then, but the bias will likely be there until i die. And its been at least 2 hunting seasons since my first. I like it for its original role, after that its a no go for me, havent used one on more than paper.
I min'ed with a 3006 for a lot of years, mainly because i had 1 rifle
So on to the bullet used... No idea. I was 15-16, father loaded,them but he has never loaded for varmint in his life. He was a fan of speer's and boat tails, so my assumption is that is used hot-cor or whatever they were called 20 years ago.
2muchgun
New member
I'm quite certain that, in your mind, you were quite certain as to what occurred. To date, I haven't noted you as being a dumba$$, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt 100%.
That said, I'm telling you, enequivocally, given decades of 243 shooting/killing, that there is no 243 non-varmint bullet in existence that wouldn't break a deer rib @ 200yds. None. I don't care if the bullet was tumbling sideways, given full velocity. Something had to have slowed said bullet down and quite possibly caused it to tumble.
Some of the fastest whitetail kills I've witnessed were from 243s. And simple cup and core bullets.
Given your young age at the time, I'm sure your perception of the situation may have been a bit off. There simply HAS to be another explanation of what actually occurred, IMO......
That said, I'm telling you, enequivocally, given decades of 243 shooting/killing, that there is no 243 non-varmint bullet in existence that wouldn't break a deer rib @ 200yds. None. I don't care if the bullet was tumbling sideways, given full velocity. Something had to have slowed said bullet down and quite possibly caused it to tumble.
Some of the fastest whitetail kills I've witnessed were from 243s. And simple cup and core bullets.
Given your young age at the time, I'm sure your perception of the situation may have been a bit off. There simply HAS to be another explanation of what actually occurred, IMO......
coleridge
New member
Originally Posted By: NdIndystruck rib, rode the rib up and hit spine, rode rib down and recovered in the shoulder
I'm really not picking on you but want to get this straight...
The bullet hit the deer (I'm assuming from a somewhat horizontal direction), turned 90 degrees went up 8-9 inches, turned direction 180 degrees, went down a few inches & stopped in the shoulder (I'm assuming the on-side shoulder from your wording).
If this is true can you please give you & the rifles whereabouts on November 22, 1963 ???
Also, how did you find the deer? Was there another shot or did the -Z- Zoro pattern on his side cause his demise?
I'm really not picking on you but want to get this straight...
The bullet hit the deer (I'm assuming from a somewhat horizontal direction), turned 90 degrees went up 8-9 inches, turned direction 180 degrees, went down a few inches & stopped in the shoulder (I'm assuming the on-side shoulder from your wording).
If this is true can you please give you & the rifles whereabouts on November 22, 1963 ???
Also, how did you find the deer? Was there another shot or did the -Z- Zoro pattern on his side cause his demise?
NdIndy
New member
I have exactly 1 .243 bullet in my possession, that failed to do so. Entry left mid body behind shoulder (same place I still shoot), bullet path between the hide and tissue to the spine, bullet path between hide and tissue down rib cage, bullet recovered near right shoulder. No entry through the rib cage all organs in pristine condition. The only injury visible was the entry wound on the rib cage and damaged spine. The bullet passed between 2 vertebra, which put the animal down. Shot was taken inside 200 yards (assuming since it was offhand and I was a young shooter and didn't just punch a hole in the hillside) across a small valley, no vegetation at Battle Mountain roughly 15 minutes past sun up on opening day of deer, and I don't recall the air being really thick that day
The deer was spotted shortly after there was enough light to walk as we were hiking in to the area to hunt. He was standing on upper right of a hill side, spotted us and crossed over the hill and into the valley. Dad took a cactus in the foot and stopped to pull it out, he heard the shot/hit but was on the wrong side of the hill to see it. My Brother and I crossed top left and spotted him again as he came out of the valley and was crossing right to left up the next hill. He turned broadside to look at us. And then *bang* magic happened.
It was my first big game hunt, it wasn't the first for my father, my older brother, my dad's friends, or the processor who told me to stop shooting things in the head. All of whom remarked on it. And it wasn't probably less than the 50th animal I had my hands inside of.
I have no explanation, just a recounting of the shot and bullet pathing once it struck. And what remains of the bullet. The next hunt I borrowed a .270 because of that event. That started my long journey of 'bigger better' calibers until I got older and figured out the results of the bigger better and my smaller easier to pack rifles are the same, except for the bruising on my shoulder. Thus the 25-06.
And as further trivia, I still have the scar on my left index finger from my knife slipping when I was cutting the deer's throat. My dad always taught to do so to bleed out the animal for some reason. It was probably the first of many 'major' injury I fixed using duct tape, finger still works and everything
It was my first big game hunt, it wasn't the first for my father, my older brother, my dad's friends, or the processor who told me to stop shooting things in the head. All of whom remarked on it. And it wasn't probably less than the 50th animal I had my hands inside of.
I have no explanation, just a recounting of the shot and bullet pathing once it struck. And what remains of the bullet. The next hunt I borrowed a .270 because of that event. That started my long journey of 'bigger better' calibers until I got older and figured out the results of the bigger better and my smaller easier to pack rifles are the same, except for the bruising on my shoulder. Thus the 25-06.
And as further trivia, I still have the scar on my left index finger from my knife slipping when I was cutting the deer's throat. My dad always taught to do so to bleed out the animal for some reason. It was probably the first of many 'major' injury I fixed using duct tape, finger still works and everything
Theshedhunter
Active member
Finally someone with a sense of humor! (High-fives NDIndy)
coleridge
New member
Originally Posted By: NdIndy
November 22, 1963, my birthday is November 6, but 1976. At that young age I can account for my whereabouts
Sorry, I thought maybee we had found the shooter on the grassy knoll (multi-directional changing bullet)...
Not sure what to make of your experience; but it makes much more sense with that explination v/s a zig zag pattern in his one side. Not sure which is more surprising though. That a rib changed the bullet direction (that much) or the hide keeping the bullet in (also altering direction) making a complete rainbow across the top of deer to lodge in the off shoulder. Weird story to say the least...
Thanks for the detail.
BTW... the 25/06 is a great cartridge for deer. I used one for years & found it almost as good as the 243Win
November 22, 1963, my birthday is November 6, but 1976. At that young age I can account for my whereabouts
Sorry, I thought maybee we had found the shooter on the grassy knoll (multi-directional changing bullet)...
Not sure what to make of your experience; but it makes much more sense with that explination v/s a zig zag pattern in his one side. Not sure which is more surprising though. That a rib changed the bullet direction (that much) or the hide keeping the bullet in (also altering direction) making a complete rainbow across the top of deer to lodge in the off shoulder. Weird story to say the least...
Thanks for the detail.
BTW... the 25/06 is a great cartridge for deer. I used one for years & found it almost as good as the 243Win
NdIndy
New member
Ya, I can't give you details of the animals I've taken since, but that one sticks in my mind
He was by a wide margin the largest deer I've ever shot, I remember he had 1 heck of a layer of fat around his neck. I've got his rack and picture at home, well back home now. It was recently recovered from my dad's ex wife's house, she had most of my belongings held hostage for the last 20'ish years. Not a good divorce if you can believe that! But as of last month it's back in my grubbys.
The only other magic I've had happen is how the weight of every animal somehow increases to that of a small elephant by the time I'm done with the drag.
I think we may have veered off topic, I still wouldn't use a .243 on a bear
The only other magic I've had happen is how the weight of every animal somehow increases to that of a small elephant by the time I'm done with the drag.
I think we may have veered off topic, I still wouldn't use a .243 on a bear
Rocky1
New member
.243 might be a little light. Not saying it won't work, I've dropped many a deer, some of them at some pretty way out there distances, and do hold them near and dear. HOWEVER... I've seen a lot of solidly hit bear walk away from heavier slugs.
Shot one my junior year of highschool, 401 1/2 lbs, with a Winchester 170 grain silvertip in 30-30, at about 10 yards, running. Hit him squarely in the shoulder, trying to shoot around dogs in a limited clearing. Bullet turned and came back out the same shoulder, and was pulled from the entrance wound, in the swamp.
Tracked one for a deer hunter one time... Solidly hit in the neck with 120 grain 30-06. Left the road at 9 p.m. finally killed the bear a little after 1 a.m., got out of the swamp about daybreak the next morning. Bear took 5 rounds of 357 in the chest when we crawled up on him, close enough he had powder burns, and was still trying to catch the guy shooting as he tried to reload and finish him. When we pulled the hide, the initial shot had traveled down the left side of the spine roughly 8 inches, crossed to the opposite side knocking the top off one vertebrae, ran another 2 - 3 inches down the right side of the spine, nicked the top corner of the right shoulder blade, and was found just behind the shoulder under the hide.
Have killed several and found old wounds healed over, but we killed an old boar one time that had lost 2 toes on 2 feet to steel traps, had a hole shot clear through his gut that appeared .30 caliber round of some nature, took out 1 rib on one side, 2 1/2 ribs on the other, was low enough it should have hit intestines. Found 6 - 8 .22 LR projectiles, 8 - 10 buckshot, and 2 - .30 caliber projectiles in the carcass. Canines were about worn smooth, missing 2 front teeth, and a molar. Really liked eating beehives in that condition too!
.243 will kill one, no doubt about that. But shot placement is a must. Personally, I'd opt for a heavier caliber and bullet, but I've seen several killed with less gun than that.
Shot one my junior year of highschool, 401 1/2 lbs, with a Winchester 170 grain silvertip in 30-30, at about 10 yards, running. Hit him squarely in the shoulder, trying to shoot around dogs in a limited clearing. Bullet turned and came back out the same shoulder, and was pulled from the entrance wound, in the swamp.
Tracked one for a deer hunter one time... Solidly hit in the neck with 120 grain 30-06. Left the road at 9 p.m. finally killed the bear a little after 1 a.m., got out of the swamp about daybreak the next morning. Bear took 5 rounds of 357 in the chest when we crawled up on him, close enough he had powder burns, and was still trying to catch the guy shooting as he tried to reload and finish him. When we pulled the hide, the initial shot had traveled down the left side of the spine roughly 8 inches, crossed to the opposite side knocking the top off one vertebrae, ran another 2 - 3 inches down the right side of the spine, nicked the top corner of the right shoulder blade, and was found just behind the shoulder under the hide.
Have killed several and found old wounds healed over, but we killed an old boar one time that had lost 2 toes on 2 feet to steel traps, had a hole shot clear through his gut that appeared .30 caliber round of some nature, took out 1 rib on one side, 2 1/2 ribs on the other, was low enough it should have hit intestines. Found 6 - 8 .22 LR projectiles, 8 - 10 buckshot, and 2 - .30 caliber projectiles in the carcass. Canines were about worn smooth, missing 2 front teeth, and a molar. Really liked eating beehives in that condition too!
.243 will kill one, no doubt about that. But shot placement is a must. Personally, I'd opt for a heavier caliber and bullet, but I've seen several killed with less gun than that.