SlickerThanSnot
New member
time out for 1 minute. dan brothers, you have a trip planned for this winter?
Where's God?
- Thread starter hm1996
- Start date
Here is a short answer. If I am wrong for being a faithful follower of Jesus Christ & at death I find there is no Heaven or [beeep], I have lost nothing. If & when you die & you find there is a Heaven & a [beeep] where do you stand. Philippians 2:10 Every knee will & every tongue will confess. Think about it.
Originally Posted By: old catHere is a short answer. If I am wrong for being a faithful follower of Jesus Christ & at death I find there is no Heaven or [beeep], I have lost nothing.
Well, I will admit that is something to think about, but what if it isn't as simple as a one-or-none choice?
What if you find out at death that Jesus is a pagan god, and you have spent your life worshiping a false deity, and you are lost forever into eternal misery because you made the wrong choice?
You are asserting that your choice is the only choice, so you will be subject to the penalty if you have made the wrong choice.
And you make it even worse by admitting that you are just placing a bet to cover the odds. Look up "Pascal's Wager".
How do you support your belief that your choice is the only correct choice, when there have been thousands of gods over all of the centuries?
I would really be interested in seeing some reason or evidence that shows me that you are right.
Without proof, that attitude really seems pretty arrogant to me.
Originally Posted By: old catIf & when you die & you find there is a Heaven & a [beeep] where do you stand. Philippians 2:10 Every knee will & every tongue will confess. Think about it.
Maybe you hitched your horses up to the wrong wagon.
You think about it.
Where do you stand?
*
Well, I will admit that is something to think about, but what if it isn't as simple as a one-or-none choice?
What if you find out at death that Jesus is a pagan god, and you have spent your life worshiping a false deity, and you are lost forever into eternal misery because you made the wrong choice?
You are asserting that your choice is the only choice, so you will be subject to the penalty if you have made the wrong choice.
And you make it even worse by admitting that you are just placing a bet to cover the odds. Look up "Pascal's Wager".
How do you support your belief that your choice is the only correct choice, when there have been thousands of gods over all of the centuries?
I would really be interested in seeing some reason or evidence that shows me that you are right.
Without proof, that attitude really seems pretty arrogant to me.
Originally Posted By: old catIf & when you die & you find there is a Heaven & a [beeep] where do you stand. Philippians 2:10 Every knee will & every tongue will confess. Think about it.
Maybe you hitched your horses up to the wrong wagon.
You think about it.
Where do you stand?
*
Dholsapple
Member
Actually when I posted last I hadn't read the article you posted as I must not have clicked on page 2 of the topic. So if I understand correctly in the article it refers to a prophesy in the Old Testament that speaks of a "young woman" and it was changed to a "virgin" in the New Testament? Still a young woman... I didn't look the verses it referred to up though as I'm no longer able to use the Bible as any sort of "proof" appearently so I could have not understood the error correctly. In the second contradiction in the prophesy it appears you didn't look the verses up either.
I did look those up. In isiah it is speaking of the son of man coming to Jerusalem. As is Mathew 21:7. In Zechariah it is speaking of the son of many riding on a young donkey into Jerusalem. As is Mathew 21:7. The controversy appears to be in Mathew 21:7 where it states that Jesus had them bring both the mother and colt donkey to him and they sat him on it. The author of your article takes this as he is riding two animals at once. I'll be honest I think he's grasping at straws... haha According to google Jesus fulfilled 357 prophecies. If we assume the author of the article is right and we take the two out that may have errors that leaves 355. That's still a lot. As for as the different accounts to the same story "the gospels" not having all the facts the exact same. That actually adds to the credibility in my opinion. If you were to ask four people that witnessed the same event would you expect their story's to be identical? Or each told from their own perspective? Generally if the stories are all identical then it has been decided beforehand what the story should be and is probably a lie.
Can I defend Jesus fullfing prophesies without the Bible? No as I'm not familiar with any other books of the time period, and keep in mind the old testament was writtten from 2000- 450 years before Jesus was born and we don't have many books from that time period. Just so you know I also have a hard time driving a nail without using a hammer and shooting a bullet without a gun. Have you actually read much of the Bible? I mean besides googling verses to help make your point? Pretty good read for being written by men not far out of the Neanderthal age.
Can I defend Jesus fullfing prophesies without the Bible? No as I'm not familiar with any other books of the time period, and keep in mind the old testament was writtten from 2000- 450 years before Jesus was born and we don't have many books from that time period. Just so you know I also have a hard time driving a nail without using a hammer and shooting a bullet without a gun. Have you actually read much of the Bible? I mean besides googling verses to help make your point? Pretty good read for being written by men not far out of the Neanderthal age.
Dholsapple
Member
On a side note, I'm sure you realize that all 12 of the apostles were either crucified, imprisoned, put on a deserted island or all of three. Why would someone die for a lie when they have nothing to gain? I mean if the knew Jesus to be a fraud why would they just move to a new town where they wouldn't be rediculed for following Jesus? Surely they wouldn't have to go far if they changed their name to not be recognized as one of the fools. Realize they wasted 3 years of their life and go back to doing what they were doing before they met him. Instead they continued to preach knowing the would be persecuted and killed for doing so. Obviously Christ followers thought he must have been something special.
Back to the article I thought I'd mention I attended the rodeo at the county fair here and watched a woman ride two horses at one time. Not as miraculous as the author makes it out to be. She even stood on them and did all sorts of tricks including the horses jumping. If Jesus wanted to ride both the donkey and colt simultaneously than I'm sure he could have. The way I read the passage he either rode the donkey and the colt followed or he rode the colt and the donkey followed.
Back to the article I thought I'd mention I attended the rodeo at the county fair here and watched a woman ride two horses at one time. Not as miraculous as the author makes it out to be. She even stood on them and did all sorts of tricks including the horses jumping. If Jesus wanted to ride both the donkey and colt simultaneously than I'm sure he could have. The way I read the passage he either rode the donkey and the colt followed or he rode the colt and the donkey followed.
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– Alcohol’s wringer squeezed this author–but he escaped quite whole.
Here I found an ingredient that had been lacking in any other effort I had made to save myself. Here was–power! Here was power to live to the end of any given day, power to have the courage to face the next day, power to have friends, power to help people, power to be sane, power to stay sober. That was seven years ago–and many A.A. meetings ago–and I haven’t had a drink during those seven years. Moreover, I am deeply convinced that so long as I continue to strive, in my bumbling way, toward the principles I first encountered in the earlier chapters of this book, this remarkable power will continue to flow through me. What is this power? With my A.A. friends, all I can say is that it’s a Power greater than myself. If pressed, all I can do is follow the psalmist who said it long before me: “Be still, and know that I am God.”
Big Book 3rd edition
pp. 386-387
Here I found an ingredient that had been lacking in any other effort I had made to save myself. Here was–power! Here was power to live to the end of any given day, power to have the courage to face the next day, power to have friends, power to help people, power to be sane, power to stay sober. That was seven years ago–and many A.A. meetings ago–and I haven’t had a drink during those seven years. Moreover, I am deeply convinced that so long as I continue to strive, in my bumbling way, toward the principles I first encountered in the earlier chapters of this book, this remarkable power will continue to flow through me. What is this power? With my A.A. friends, all I can say is that it’s a Power greater than myself. If pressed, all I can do is follow the psalmist who said it long before me: “Be still, and know that I am God.”
Big Book 3rd edition
pp. 386-387
Originally Posted By: Dholsapple
Can I defend Jesus fullfing prophesies without the Bible? No as I'm not familiar with any other books of the time period, and keep in mind the old testament was writtten from 2000- 450 years before Jesus was born and we don't have many books from that time period.
Thank you.
Done deal.
Can I defend Jesus fullfing prophesies without the Bible? No as I'm not familiar with any other books of the time period, and keep in mind the old testament was writtten from 2000- 450 years before Jesus was born and we don't have many books from that time period.
Thank you.
Done deal.
Originally Posted By: Dholsapple Have you actually read much of the Bible? I mean besides googling verses to help make your point? Pretty good read for being written by men not far out of the Neanderthal age.
Yes, front to back, more than once.
No, I don't think it is a "good read".
I think it is a jumbled up mess of murder, rape, genocide, slavery, incest, and brutality.
(Edit to add infanticide)
*
Yes, front to back, more than once.
No, I don't think it is a "good read".
I think it is a jumbled up mess of murder, rape, genocide, slavery, incest, and brutality.
(Edit to add infanticide)
*
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Latin catholic for a half of a century. Hard core. Went to see the pope one day. Too cheap to buy seats, (In Stl), and waited outside of the arena to see a glimpse and possibly a wave.......for 6 hours!! No smartphones back in the day, So I tried to see if anything'Interesting' was at hand to notice! Why were there these 20-year-olds standing around with long raincoats on when the weather was just fine? What was the purpose of this big safe-looking device behind me for? It was then realized I was in a section of J.P.II's security team! Then I asked myself, 'Who would want too harm this old man that represents peace and love?' 'What do the critics of the RCC or any other religions have to say?' 'Are their arguments of any worth??' Yeah. Ask yourself those questions, honestly, and objectively. Maybe not for yourself, but for the peace and security of our future generations. Why do you worship jesus when you could be worshiping the Elephant-Headed God Ganesh? What do you mean you don't have Elephants in your own back yard? You 'Missed' Ganesh's 'Revelations?!' You will surely burn in [beeep] forever! You and your ENTIR FAMILY! FOEVERRRRRR!!!! BOOOOOOO!!!!
So, if you are too into your own religion to look at it critically, look and study all of the other religions and that somehow, remarkably, they still exist today! History is the real nail in the coffin for religions. If you want to meditate, that is awesome! But the social need for organized religions is not only silly, it's ridiculous, false, and dangerous. And Needlessly so.
Why do religions come and go? Why was so much bloodshed so necessary? What roll did and do religions play in the wars of today and yesterday? If you research these questions honestly and objectively, you will be like this ex-old hardener latin catholic and tell the pope and all of his criminal minions to put a sock in it!
There are Wonderful, uplifting, celebratory books, videos, and podcasts explain why we are here and how we got here. If you disagree with the arguments against your religion ( that your parents picked out after doing all of the research! Yeah! Right!), then replace your religion to the Elephant-headed god one, and see how ridiculous that argument actually looks and sounds.
Local law enforcement officers stopped 2 different Islamic Jihadi massacre attacks within a bicycle's ride from my house. I am very concerned for my safety, and more so for the future generations. These attacks (Please see Dr. Bill Warner about 'The True Nature of Islam') to understand the constant threat that political Islam poses, 24/7, on a global scale, for the last 1400 years. ISIS is claiming the recent Vegas attack from one of their converts. And yes, the very first overseas battle the US marines fought was against the Islamic army in Tripoli.
You and your jesus believes in Ford? The Muslims and their flying superhero believes in Chevy! And they have a book of magic spells, called the koran that DEMANDS that they kill all non-chevy drivers! Read it for yourself and see. Sooner or later you have to grow up and face these facts. Peace.
So, if you are too into your own religion to look at it critically, look and study all of the other religions and that somehow, remarkably, they still exist today! History is the real nail in the coffin for religions. If you want to meditate, that is awesome! But the social need for organized religions is not only silly, it's ridiculous, false, and dangerous. And Needlessly so.
Why do religions come and go? Why was so much bloodshed so necessary? What roll did and do religions play in the wars of today and yesterday? If you research these questions honestly and objectively, you will be like this ex-old hardener latin catholic and tell the pope and all of his criminal minions to put a sock in it!
There are Wonderful, uplifting, celebratory books, videos, and podcasts explain why we are here and how we got here. If you disagree with the arguments against your religion ( that your parents picked out after doing all of the research! Yeah! Right!), then replace your religion to the Elephant-headed god one, and see how ridiculous that argument actually looks and sounds.
Local law enforcement officers stopped 2 different Islamic Jihadi massacre attacks within a bicycle's ride from my house. I am very concerned for my safety, and more so for the future generations. These attacks (Please see Dr. Bill Warner about 'The True Nature of Islam') to understand the constant threat that political Islam poses, 24/7, on a global scale, for the last 1400 years. ISIS is claiming the recent Vegas attack from one of their converts. And yes, the very first overseas battle the US marines fought was against the Islamic army in Tripoli.
You and your jesus believes in Ford? The Muslims and their flying superhero believes in Chevy! And they have a book of magic spells, called the koran that DEMANDS that they kill all non-chevy drivers! Read it for yourself and see. Sooner or later you have to grow up and face these facts. Peace.
Savage250
New member
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: Dholsapple Have you actually read much of the Bible? I mean besides googling verses to help make your point? Pretty good read for being written by men not far out of the Neanderthal age.
Yes, front to back, more than once.
No, I don't think it is a "good read".
I think it is a jumbled up mess of murder, rape, genocide, slavery, incest, and brutality.
*
Q. So if you think these things are immoral, where do your morals come from?
A. God gave them to you.
All of the Old Testament is prophesy of the coming Lord Jesus. It is the OLD Covenant and was the way things were taken care of at that time. The NEW Covenant is Grace. We are under God's Grace. We are free to choose to follow Jesus and accept His payment for our sins or to not accept His payment and fend for ourselves.
In the book of Samuel, God told Samuel to tell Saul to kill everyone and everything in a certain tribe/village, the Amalekites I think it was. The reason? Because they and everything about them was evil.
Evil will be taken care of at the proper time. God is giving all of man kind time to repent because he doesn't want anyone to perish.
It's great that you read the Bible. Maybe one day your blinders will fall off and you will wake up. I hope so. I will pray for you.
C.S. Lewis was once a devout Atheist. Look him up.
Yes, front to back, more than once.
No, I don't think it is a "good read".
I think it is a jumbled up mess of murder, rape, genocide, slavery, incest, and brutality.
*
Q. So if you think these things are immoral, where do your morals come from?
A. God gave them to you.
All of the Old Testament is prophesy of the coming Lord Jesus. It is the OLD Covenant and was the way things were taken care of at that time. The NEW Covenant is Grace. We are under God's Grace. We are free to choose to follow Jesus and accept His payment for our sins or to not accept His payment and fend for ourselves.
In the book of Samuel, God told Samuel to tell Saul to kill everyone and everything in a certain tribe/village, the Amalekites I think it was. The reason? Because they and everything about them was evil.
Evil will be taken care of at the proper time. God is giving all of man kind time to repent because he doesn't want anyone to perish.
It's great that you read the Bible. Maybe one day your blinders will fall off and you will wake up. I hope so. I will pray for you.
C.S. Lewis was once a devout Atheist. Look him up.
swampwalker
New member
Originally Posted By: LONEHOWLPerhaps Scientology is the answer?
Assuming there's a question in the first place. It appears it is just as likely.
Assuming there's a question in the first place. It appears it is just as likely.
Originally Posted By: 243kimber Ask yourself those questions, honestly, and objectively. Maybe not for yourself, but for the peace and security of our future generations. Why do you worship jesus when you could be worshiping the Elephant-Headed God Ganesh? What do you mean you don't have Elephants in your own back yard? You 'Missed' Ganesh's 'Revelations?!' You will surely burn in [beeep] forever! You and your ENTIR FAMILY! FOEVERRRRRR!!!! BOOOOOOO!!!!
So, if you are too into your own religion to look at it critically, look and study all of the other religions and that somehow, remarkably, they still exist today! History is the real nail in the coffin for religions. If you want to meditate, that is awesome! But the social need for organized religions is not only silly, it's ridiculous, false, and dangerous. And Needlessly so.
*
So, if you are too into your own religion to look at it critically, look and study all of the other religions and that somehow, remarkably, they still exist today! History is the real nail in the coffin for religions. If you want to meditate, that is awesome! But the social need for organized religions is not only silly, it's ridiculous, false, and dangerous. And Needlessly so.
*
Originally Posted By: Savage250Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: Dholsapple Have you actually read much of the Bible? I mean besides googling verses to help make your point? Pretty good read for being written by men not far out of the Neanderthal age.
Yes, front to back, more than once.
No, I don't think it is a "good read".
I think it is a jumbled up mess of murder, rape, genocide, slavery, incest, and brutality.
*
Q. So if you think these things are immoral, where do your morals come from?
A. God gave them to you.
All of the Old Testament is prophesy of the coming Lord Jesus. It is the OLD Covenant and was the way things were taken care of at that time. The NEW Covenant is Grace. We are under God's Grace. We are free to choose to follow Jesus and accept His payment for our sins or to not accept His payment and fend for ourselves.
In the book of Samuel, God told Samuel to tell Saul to kill everyone and everything in a certain tribe/village, the Amalekites I think it was. The reason? Because they and everything about them was evil.
Evil will be taken care of at the proper time. God is giving all of man kind time to repent because he doesn't want anyone to perish.
It's great that you read the Bible. Maybe one day your blinders will fall off and you will wake up. I hope so. I will pray for you.
C.S. Lewis was once a devout Atheist. Look him up.
Originally Posted By: Savage250
In the book of Samuel, God told Samuel to tell Saul to kill everyone and everything in a certain tribe/village, the Amalekites I think it was. The reason? Because they and everything about them was evil.
1 Samuel 15
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and [beeep].
9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.
Looks like they murdered all of the wicked and evil infants and wicked pregnant women.
But they spared the "best" of the livestock.
Originally Posted By: Savage250
Q. So if you think these things are immoral, where do your morals come from?
A. God gave them to you.
Your god, if he existed, has no morals to give anybody.
*
Yes, front to back, more than once.
No, I don't think it is a "good read".
I think it is a jumbled up mess of murder, rape, genocide, slavery, incest, and brutality.
*
Q. So if you think these things are immoral, where do your morals come from?
A. God gave them to you.
All of the Old Testament is prophesy of the coming Lord Jesus. It is the OLD Covenant and was the way things were taken care of at that time. The NEW Covenant is Grace. We are under God's Grace. We are free to choose to follow Jesus and accept His payment for our sins or to not accept His payment and fend for ourselves.
In the book of Samuel, God told Samuel to tell Saul to kill everyone and everything in a certain tribe/village, the Amalekites I think it was. The reason? Because they and everything about them was evil.
Evil will be taken care of at the proper time. God is giving all of man kind time to repent because he doesn't want anyone to perish.
It's great that you read the Bible. Maybe one day your blinders will fall off and you will wake up. I hope so. I will pray for you.
C.S. Lewis was once a devout Atheist. Look him up.
Originally Posted By: Savage250
In the book of Samuel, God told Samuel to tell Saul to kill everyone and everything in a certain tribe/village, the Amalekites I think it was. The reason? Because they and everything about them was evil.
1 Samuel 15
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and [beeep].
9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.
Looks like they murdered all of the wicked and evil infants and wicked pregnant women.
But they spared the "best" of the livestock.
Originally Posted By: Savage250
Q. So if you think these things are immoral, where do your morals come from?
A. God gave them to you.
Your god, if he existed, has no morals to give anybody.
*
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Savage250
New member
Once again, you only pull out the verses you want. You should have kept reading:
10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,
11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night.
12 And when Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a place, and is gone about, and passed on, and gone down to Gilgal.
13 And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the Lord: I have performed the commandment of the Lord.
14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?
15 And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.
16 Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what the Lord hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on.
17 And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the Lord anointed thee king over Israel?
18 And the Lord sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.
19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the Lord, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the Lord?
20 And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the Lord, and have gone the way which the Lord sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
21 But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God in Gilgal.
22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.
25 Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord.
26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
27 And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent.
28 And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.
29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.30 Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord thy God.
31 So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the Lord.
32 Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.
34 Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul.
35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,
11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night.
12 And when Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a place, and is gone about, and passed on, and gone down to Gilgal.
13 And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the Lord: I have performed the commandment of the Lord.
14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?
15 And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.
16 Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what the Lord hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on.
17 And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the Lord anointed thee king over Israel?
18 And the Lord sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.
19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the Lord, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the Lord?
20 And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the Lord, and have gone the way which the Lord sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
21 But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God in Gilgal.
22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.
25 Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord.
26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
27 And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent.
28 And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.
29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.30 Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord thy God.
31 So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the Lord.
32 Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.
34 Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul.
35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
Originally Posted By: Savage250Once again, you only pull out the verses you want. You should have kept reading:
10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,
11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night.
12 And when Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a place, and is gone about, and passed on, and gone down to Gilgal.
13 And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the Lord: I have performed the commandment of the Lord.
14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?
15 And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.
16 Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what the Lord hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on.
17 And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the Lord anointed thee king over Israel?
18 And the Lord sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.
19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the Lord, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the Lord?
20 And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the Lord, and have gone the way which the Lord sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
21 But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God in Gilgal.
22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.
25 Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord.
26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
27 And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent.
28 And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.
29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.30 Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord thy God.
31 So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the Lord.
32 Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.
34 Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul.
35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
Yes I read it all, and I read it again, and I've read it all before.
Your god was ticked off because Saul disobeyed and left Agag and the cattle alive (after killing all of the men, women, and children, and infants), so Samuel came along as the clean-up crew and hacked the prisoner Agag to pieces with a sword.
So, Saul didn't get to be king, Agag got executed, and somebody else got to keep all the sheep, oxen, and a$$es.
Nothing justified your god-ordered genocide.
But if you'll swallow the story about a great flood that killed every living thing on earth except a little handful on a boat, who really cares about one "sinful" tribe?
It would be pathetic if there wasn't a good chance that it's all just a man-made story like most of the bible.
*
10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,
11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night.
12 And when Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a place, and is gone about, and passed on, and gone down to Gilgal.
13 And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the Lord: I have performed the commandment of the Lord.
14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?
15 And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.
16 Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what the Lord hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on.
17 And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the Lord anointed thee king over Israel?
18 And the Lord sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.
19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the Lord, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the Lord?
20 And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the Lord, and have gone the way which the Lord sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
21 But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God in Gilgal.
22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.
25 Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord.
26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
27 And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent.
28 And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.
29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.30 Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord thy God.
31 So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the Lord.
32 Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.
34 Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul.
35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
Yes I read it all, and I read it again, and I've read it all before.
Your god was ticked off because Saul disobeyed and left Agag and the cattle alive (after killing all of the men, women, and children, and infants), so Samuel came along as the clean-up crew and hacked the prisoner Agag to pieces with a sword.
So, Saul didn't get to be king, Agag got executed, and somebody else got to keep all the sheep, oxen, and a$$es.
Nothing justified your god-ordered genocide.
But if you'll swallow the story about a great flood that killed every living thing on earth except a little handful on a boat, who really cares about one "sinful" tribe?
It would be pathetic if there wasn't a good chance that it's all just a man-made story like most of the bible.
*
And why in the heck does an omnipotent god have to bribe a bumbling idiot-to commit genocide-by promising to make him a king?
And then the job is screwed up and the Amalekites continue to be a problem in the future.
Why the heck didn't he just drop a load of fire and brimstone on them, or drown them?
Savage250
New member
Well, sin was dealt with differently in the Old Testament. He didn't bribe Saul, He gave him the command to kill em all and Saul disobeyed. To cover sin in the OT, innocent blood had to be shed.
I really feel like you believe in God. But for some reason, you are angry at something that happened to you in your life that you blame God for.
That's a good question about God's omnipotence. He could have killed them how ever He wanted to that's for sure. He's also omniscient and omnipresent.
I really feel like you believe in God. But for some reason, you are angry at something that happened to you in your life that you blame God for.
That's a good question about God's omnipotence. He could have killed them how ever He wanted to that's for sure. He's also omniscient and omnipresent.