When Breeding or Buying......

[/quote]lol/ The last pups I sold on here over a year ago, cost me over $1,500 to deleiver them. Mark my words. I will never sell a pup on here agian. Just breeding now for my and my sons use. If you see one that way with a Anvil on it's side, it was stolen. [/quote]

That is to bad. Will you give one away? JK In that case I dont blame you. So are you at a place in you breeding program that you are happy? Or is one of them things that you keep going and never really are finished?
 
Originally Posted By: Devin69 I would be leary of the Pit Tony and a few Okkies are breeding into it, but that is another debate.


Devin, this "debate" seems to be drying up, so i dont feel bad about adding this in here. I know there are lots of Okkies out there, lol, so this may very well have been meant for anyone else, but me and you have had some dissagreements in the past about pits, and i want to clear something up real quick. I do not cross bread any type of dog with a pit. You said before that there is no quality in a pit that you desire in a hunting dog, and for the most part i can agree.

I love pits, and i always have at least one. Everything that makes a pit a pit is exactly what i love about them. They are hard headed at times, but not stuipid. They are strong willed, but will respect their master. They are very hard, and he!! on game, but still compassionate. They will submit to me or my wife as the alfa's, but are not mindless minnions at my service. They are a challange from the time they are born, but the payoff is great!

My pit has saved mine, and my wifes butt countless times. I have had some problems with her, but no more than any other dog. All that being said, I will re visit the fact that i will not make a pit cross. I have seen lots of different pit crosses in my time, and liked none of them. As you said before, a pit is made to fight, and you were absolutly right, They are designed to kill. The trick is to teach them what to kill, lol. My pits are not hunting dogs, they are companions. I do use my pits to take game, but its not hunting. I can send my pit into a den after yotes, a brush pile on a coon, use her as a helper for when some younge pups bay a coyote, the list goes on and on.

To sum it up, as said before, dogs are tools. I wouldnt use my cressent wrench to drive a nail, same goes with my pits.

Im not trying to tell you that pits are for everyone, or how great they are, rather that i know they are not made for all uses, and i do know their limitations.
 
Originally Posted By: Jesse lackeyOriginally Posted By: Devin69 I would be leary of the Pit Tony and a few Okkies are breeding into it, but that is another debate.


Devin, this "debate" seems to be drying up, so i dont feel bad about adding this in here. I know there are lots of Okkies out there, lol, so this may very well have been meant for anyone else, but me and you have had some dissagreements in the past about pits, and i want to clear something up real quick. I do not cross bread any type of dog with a pit. You said before that there is no quality in a pit that you desire in a hunting dog, and for the most part i can agree.

I love pits, and i always have at least one. Everything that makes a pit a pit is exactly what i love about them. They are hard headed at times, but not stuipid. They are strong willed, but will respect their master. They are very hard, and he!! on game, but still compassionate. They will submit to me or my wife as the alfa's, but are not mindless minnions at my service. They are a challange from the time they are born, but the payoff is great!

My pit has saved mine, and my wifes butt countless times. I have had some problems with her, but no more than any other dog. All that being said, I will re visit the fact that i will not make a pit cross. I have seen lots of different pit crosses in my time, and liked none of them. As you said before, a pit is made to fight, and you were absolutly right, They are designed to kill. The trick is to teach them what to kill, lol. My pits are not hunting dogs, they are companions. I do use my pits to take game, but its not hunting. I can send my pit into a den after yotes, a brush pile on a coon, use her as a helper for when some younge pups bay a coyote, the list goes on and on.

To sum it up, as said before, dogs are tools. I wouldnt use my cressent wrench to drive a nail, same goes with my pits.

Im not trying to tell you that pits are for everyone, or how great they are, rather that i know they are not made for all uses, and i do know their limitations. I did't know it was a Debate. And I still have no debate with you. As you stated pits are No Hunting dogs and I agree. It was not directed to you if you are not cross breeding them and trying to pound a square peg in a round hole.
I will not debate the pit issue because there are too many good ones going on all the time about pits. So if you love them, good on you, and if you hate them then so be it.

Refresh my memory when we have debated the pit bull before, because I don't recall it. Don't recall debating a pit bull issue with anyone.
 
Devin, i will have to look back. But i do recall you saying that your hounds will catch a hog as well as a pit will.

Im not trying to start a "pit" debate, just my way of agreeing with you to an extent.
 
I would dare say this Jesse, even though I know nothing about hog hunting. If you took away the strike dog ,the trail dog ,and the bay dog,the cut collars and the cut vest and only ran the pit, I would put my money on the hounds. They may not be able to stop them as good but they would get them caught none the less.lol
 
I think it is hilarious when people talk about "Pits" and have no experience with anything but "Shitt Pits" that you can get for $100 a puppy out of the classifieds of your local news paper, or off KSL.

There is a huge difference between some "Bluenose" piece of crap, backyard bred, $100 special and a pure Carver bred (Or any other GOOD line) dog from parents that have been bred for gameness, not color.

Since you're comparing apples to horseapples... I'll just keep my mouth shut. LMAO!

Come on Devin, 6 generations of your own stuff? Been hunting curs for how long? That's some funny stuff buddy.

Take care and happy hunting.
 
Originally Posted By: CatdawgThere is a huge difference between some "Bluenose" piece of crap, backyard bred, $100 special and a pure Carver bred (Or any other GOOD line) dog from parents that have been bred for gameness, not color.
off topic, but I LOL'ed

pitbull.jpg


GrChMachobuck.jpg
 
knockemdown... blue nose gangbanger pitt no good unless it weighs 90 lbs.lol

bottom dog... outstanding!

alot of the fell terriers have a little bull or staff thrown in to give them bone,staminia,bite,ect... i have a pup off a fella from iowa that will get his chance this fall.got a touch of it in him "1/4" so far he has shown no dog aggression(which i will not tolorate)but game as all get out. will see
if things go as planned in a couple seasons or three i have a female that will be placed with him(patterdale) just to drop the size a bit. right now 25 lbs and 14.5 inches tall
DSCF0236.jpg
 
He looks serious
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good luck with him!
Same look as the red bulldog. I have a soft spot for how a red dog looks, but black, brindle, white, yellow or even purple would suffice.

The blue hippo just looks confused!
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Originally Posted By: Jesse lackeyDevin, i will have to look back. But i do recall you saying that your hounds will catch a hog as well as a pit will.

Im not trying to start a "pit" debate, just my way of agreeing with you to an extent.
I fail to see where I said that. The closest I could find it that they would bite the ear of a Hog, And I believe they would. I could get some pictures of them doing it when I go to Utah, if youwould like?
[/quote]Like I said " I think they are worthless." They were bred for fighting not hunting. But some guys like pounding a square peg in a round hole and sometimes they get lucky and get it thru. I would rather take a dog bred for hunting and use it, even as a catch dog rather than have a pit to bite a pigs ear. I have hounds that can do that.lol But I do agree with you, everything does have a purpose and a pitbulls purpose is to be a fighting dog. And if you want a fighting dog then get a pit bull. But to me I don't want a fighting dog therefore they are worthless to me.
[/quote]
I can't believe you are still butt hurt over this thread.lol I am done with this one, it has now turned into a pit thread. And like Mason said I don't know crap about pits, I do know I don't have any use for them. See ya
 
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I apologize for sidetracking the thread with those photos. But they do show the difference between a real 'working' dog and an overbred 'fake' one. The same applies to hounds, curs, stags, beagles...whatever breed.

Seems like some guys think that ANY ol' dog can make a good decoy dog, but is that REALLY true? I'm beginning to wonder about that.

As for breeding a line of dogs specifically for decoying coyotes, it seems like it has been & still is the ADC man who does it. And breedings are strictly out of necessity to keep a dog or two for his own use. Until recently, using decoy dogs was relatively unknown to the average predator hunter, so there wasn't a 'market' for pups. Maybe another ADC man or hunter has the opportunity to get a pup from a planned litter, but that's about it. Devin has already stated he'll never sell a 'decoy dog' pup & I respect that decision.

From the old decoy dog vids I have watched, it seems like different lines of curs have been used by ADC guys for a long while. If a new line of crossbred dogs can be established that can somehow 'improve' on a well bred working cur, then that is a tall order. Again, I respect guys like Devin for even trying! I believe the 'Dorn' bred dogs are of this type?

However, based on the widely different terrain, style & hunting opportunities the average hunter enjoys, I wonder if it's really worth trying to re-invent the wheel, so to speak, to satisfy the demand for 'decoy dogs' that will suit the average hunter?
Simply based on the info in this thread, as well as past discussions, what each hunter wants from a 'decoy dog' varies to a large degree. So then, how can any breeder expect to satisfy that need by simply breeding 'decoy' dogs?

Heck, as a collective group, we can barely agree upon out what it is a 'decoy dog' does! LOL So this discussion always will be a subjective one.

For conversation...




 
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Devin, sorry to derail your thread. You talk about cross breeding pits, i just wanted to make it clear that i dont do that, even though i like pits.

Im not still "butt hurt" over that thread, nor was i ever. I said exactly what i wanted to say, and dont feel bad about any of it. The only reason i brought that thread up is because you asked me to.

No more talk about pits from me. Sorry i ruined your fun.
 
Originally Posted By: btech29I just want a dog that will help me kill more coyotes. Its not rocket science.

Jeff, sounds easy enough
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But how many coyotes has your dog cost you, compared to how many it has decoyed in since you got the dog? Sincere question, because me & the pup are running about 50/50 right now. But I have a miniscule sample size and I'm possibly dealing with a slightly different animal, so my observations don't necessarily mean squat!
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Originally Posted By: knockemdownOriginally Posted By: btech29I just want a dog that will help me kill more coyotes. Its not rocket science.

Jeff, sounds easy enough
smile.gif
But how many coyotes has your dog cost you, compared to how many it has decoyed in since you got the dog? Sincere question, because me & the pup are running about 50/50 right now. But I have a miniscule sample size and I'm possibly dealing with a slightly different animal, so my observations don't necessarily mean squat!
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She has decoyed more than she has ran off. Im in a high density area with alot of adult coyotes. I show just about every stand on my clips. Good and bad. What your seeing is what Im getting. I will let on like she runs as many off, but its not true. Just depends on who Im talking too. I could have killed most of the coyotes that she ran off. They always have to stop and look back one more time. I just dont like all the drama that comes any time you talk about decoy dogs. It is what it is. They are going to do what they do. The houndsman has alot less to do with it than they like to think.
 
Thanks Jeff. Your Spot dog is fun to watch! Ryan got here started real well & you've done a great job keeping her on coyotes ever since...

I'll sure never know how many coyotes will actually spook from my dog though. Simply because in my terrain, there's a very good chance that I'll never have seen that coyote in the 1st place. So, I'm just trying to keep an open mind as I'm learning the +/- of using the dog throughout the season. That's why your input is of value to a guy like me...
 
KED I dont know anything about dogs, I just kill coyotes. My input aint worth much. Yes Ryan done and excellent job with Spot. I dont take any credit for what she does. All I do is take her hunting. In the end thats all a man can do after obedience training. Just take em hunting. If they decoy then your dang lucky.
 
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