As I get older I've learned, the hard way at times, not to take exception to every little thing people say that may strike a nerve. I think age has a way of doing that to you and it's generally a good thing. Life is way to short to let yourself get all bunged up over stuff that just doesn't matter.
What’s this crazy load development method?
- Thread starter CZ527
- Start date
Rustydust
Active member
Originally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: RustydustIt seems that some folks try to go out of their way to get their feelings hurt sometimes.
Oh man, ain't that the truth in spades!
And of course, there are always those out there (few in numbers thank God) that seemingly do their very best at every opportunity to be the absolute biggest AH they possibly can.
Oh man, ain't that the truth in spades!
And of course, there are always those out there (few in numbers thank God) that seemingly do their very best at every opportunity to be the absolute biggest AH they possibly can.
no, I have not seen nor heard of it before this.
I don't suppose you thought to ask what the purpose was at the time? I've done that, seen something that didn't make sense to me but then also didn't take the time to ask about it. could have saved a lot of speculation though.
I don't suppose you thought to ask what the purpose was at the time? I've done that, seen something that didn't make sense to me but then also didn't take the time to ask about it. could have saved a lot of speculation though.
Originally Posted By: Stu Farishno, I have not seen nor heard of it before this.
I don't suppose you thought to ask what the purpose was at the time? I've done that, seen something that didn't make sense to me but then also didn't take the time to ask about it. could have saved a lot of speculation though.
Yea I asked 2 of them and they said just doing load development. Then they both proceeded to tell me how this was the best method for finding a small SD, etc....
I think one of them said they read about it on the hide. I’m not a member there...
I don't suppose you thought to ask what the purpose was at the time? I've done that, seen something that didn't make sense to me but then also didn't take the time to ask about it. could have saved a lot of speculation though.
Yea I asked 2 of them and they said just doing load development. Then they both proceeded to tell me how this was the best method for finding a small SD, etc....
I think one of them said they read about it on the hide. I’m not a member there...
Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: CZ527Originally Posted By: Stu Farishno, I have not seen nor heard of it before this.
I don't suppose you thought to ask what the purpose was at the time? I've done that, seen something that didn't make sense to me but then also didn't take the time to ask about it. could have saved a lot of speculation though.
Yea I asked 2 of them and they said just doing load development. Then they both proceeded to tell me how this was the best method for finding a small SD, etc....
I think one of them said they read about it on the hide. I’m not a member there...
While true we don't know their actual intentions. I would bet that they were doing something that they have seen on the interwebs. Soooper kewl stufffff. We wouldn't or couldnt understand.
However, they could be down on an awsome load already and just looking to tighten up the SD, knowing already how the basic load shoots groups, but I doubt it just from the fact that they set up no target.
I don't suppose you thought to ask what the purpose was at the time? I've done that, seen something that didn't make sense to me but then also didn't take the time to ask about it. could have saved a lot of speculation though.
Yea I asked 2 of them and they said just doing load development. Then they both proceeded to tell me how this was the best method for finding a small SD, etc....
I think one of them said they read about it on the hide. I’m not a member there...
While true we don't know their actual intentions. I would bet that they were doing something that they have seen on the interwebs. Soooper kewl stufffff. We wouldn't or couldnt understand.
However, they could be down on an awsome load already and just looking to tighten up the SD, knowing already how the basic load shoots groups, but I doubt it just from the fact that they set up no target.
not enough information to even make a guess. Wish I knew what the entire methodology is & how it's supposed to work.
I have no idea what the SD is for any of my loads, I've never bought a chronograph. I know how accurate they are & where they hit but not the MV or SD.
I have no idea what the SD is for any of my loads, I've never bought a chronograph. I know how accurate they are & where they hit but not the MV or SD.
Possible that they were trying a modified version of a method I saw on YouTube. The 6.5 Guys had Scott Saterlee explain a 10 shot ladder test that is a shortened ladder test to save time and components. I tried this method with a new rifle and had great results. I don't understand the high round count though.
Plant.One
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Bruised Possible that they were trying a modified version of a method I saw on YouTube. The 6.5 Guys had Scott Saterlee explain a 10 shot ladder test that is a shortened ladder test to save time and components. I tried this method with a new rifle and had great results. I don't understand the high round count though.
could be somethign like that and testing a bunch of different powders.
or several powders and several bullets. wouldnt be hard to put 10 different powder/primer/bullet combo's togther on a pure SD chase.
could be somethign like that and testing a bunch of different powders.
or several powders and several bullets. wouldnt be hard to put 10 different powder/primer/bullet combo's togther on a pure SD chase.
Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: Bruised Possible that they were trying a modified version of a method I saw on YouTube. The 6.5 Guys had Scott Saterlee explain a 10 shot ladder test that is a shortened ladder test to save time and components. I tried this method with a new rifle and had great results. I don't understand the high round count though.
could be somethign like that and testing a bunch of different powders.
or several powders and several bullets. wouldnt be hard to put 10 different powder/primer/bullet combo's togther on a pure SD chase.
True.
With no target set up though,,,, makes no sense.
Low SD doesn't mean small groups by any stretch. Who knows, but I would rather shoot the small group with higher SD than not, but you need to keep track of group size for that.
could be somethign like that and testing a bunch of different powders.
or several powders and several bullets. wouldnt be hard to put 10 different powder/primer/bullet combo's togther on a pure SD chase.
True.
With no target set up though,,,, makes no sense.
Low SD doesn't mean small groups by any stretch. Who knows, but I would rather shoot the small group with higher SD than not, but you need to keep track of group size for that.
Plant.One
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: SmokelessOriginally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: Bruised Possible that they were trying a modified version of a method I saw on YouTube. The 6.5 Guys had Scott Saterlee explain a 10 shot ladder test that is a shortened ladder test to save time and components. I tried this method with a new rifle and had great results. I don't understand the high round count though.
could be somethign like that and testing a bunch of different powders.
or several powders and several bullets. wouldnt be hard to put 10 different powder/primer/bullet combo's togther on a pure SD chase.
True.
With no target set up though,,,, makes no sense.
Low SD doesn't mean small groups by any stretch. Who knows, but I would rather shoot the small group with higher SD than not, but you need to keep track of group size for that.
if i understand that method (and i've watched the 6.5guys video) what they're doing is looking for the biggest powder SD node. its not about SD's at a single charge, its finding 3 or 4 consecutive charges that give a low SD, picking the powder charge pretty much dead in the middle of said identified node, then adjusting your seating depth - jump to lands - to find the accuracy within said node.
powder intervals are usually 0.2-0.3 grains, and based around known good nodes in a caliber with a given powder/bullet combo. for exmaple - 168 amax over varget in a 308 usually has a nice big node somewhere around 44-46 grains. so your test group might look like
43.3
43.6
43.9
44.2
44.5
44.8
45.1
45.4
45.7
46.0
could be somethign like that and testing a bunch of different powders.
or several powders and several bullets. wouldnt be hard to put 10 different powder/primer/bullet combo's togther on a pure SD chase.
True.
With no target set up though,,,, makes no sense.
Low SD doesn't mean small groups by any stretch. Who knows, but I would rather shoot the small group with higher SD than not, but you need to keep track of group size for that.
if i understand that method (and i've watched the 6.5guys video) what they're doing is looking for the biggest powder SD node. its not about SD's at a single charge, its finding 3 or 4 consecutive charges that give a low SD, picking the powder charge pretty much dead in the middle of said identified node, then adjusting your seating depth - jump to lands - to find the accuracy within said node.
powder intervals are usually 0.2-0.3 grains, and based around known good nodes in a caliber with a given powder/bullet combo. for exmaple - 168 amax over varget in a 308 usually has a nice big node somewhere around 44-46 grains. so your test group might look like
43.3
43.6
43.9
44.2
44.5
44.8
45.1
45.4
45.7
46.0
Originally Posted By: B23As I get older I've learned, the hard way at times, not to take exception to every little thing people say that may strike a nerve. I think age has a way of doing that to you and it's generally a good thing. Life is way to short to let yourself get all bunged up over stuff that just doesn't matter.
You literally took the words right out of my mouth.......WTHC.
You literally took the words right out of my mouth.......WTHC.
JTPinTX
Custom Call Maker
Yeah, I have seen that video from the 6.5 guys. I think those fellas you are talking about out at the range must be running some kind of variation off of that. Shooting groups looking for a low SD, and then trying to tune accuracy around that. I have never seen the method you describe detailed out on the internet anywhere though. Seems to me to be the backward way of attacking the problem, but for sure I have been wrong before.
Some rifles and loads SD matters to me, some it doesn't. My daughters 223 that never gets shot over 250, who cares. If it shoots tight groups, kills rabbits, coyotes and deer that is all it needs. She is 10, doesn't care about shooting long, just wants plenty of shooting action. 257 Roberts as a dedicated night vision setup? Doesn't matter, max range is probably 250 and I don't like shooting further than that at night.
If I am developing a load for shooting distance (whether steel, colony varmints, or predators), then SD matters to me. I never start with SD though. I will run a ladder checking for accuracy node. That gives me a place to start digging and looking. If a find a promising point I see if I can tune it in, chasing both accuracy and SD. But trying to chase totally off SD, just doesn't make sense to me at all.
I am sure I don't shoot as much as some on here. But I do have 100 and 200 yard ranges at work. I usually shoot at least a little bit 3-5 days a week out here, before or after work, or during breaks. Probably 50-150 rounds during the week. Weekends I might not shoot any, and I might shoot 100-200 rounds on steel. All of which really means jack-diddley. I try not to intentionally burn barrels out, but by the same token if I want to shoot I shoot, and don't worry about screwing on a new barrel when one is gone.
Some rifles and loads SD matters to me, some it doesn't. My daughters 223 that never gets shot over 250, who cares. If it shoots tight groups, kills rabbits, coyotes and deer that is all it needs. She is 10, doesn't care about shooting long, just wants plenty of shooting action. 257 Roberts as a dedicated night vision setup? Doesn't matter, max range is probably 250 and I don't like shooting further than that at night.
If I am developing a load for shooting distance (whether steel, colony varmints, or predators), then SD matters to me. I never start with SD though. I will run a ladder checking for accuracy node. That gives me a place to start digging and looking. If a find a promising point I see if I can tune it in, chasing both accuracy and SD. But trying to chase totally off SD, just doesn't make sense to me at all.
I am sure I don't shoot as much as some on here. But I do have 100 and 200 yard ranges at work. I usually shoot at least a little bit 3-5 days a week out here, before or after work, or during breaks. Probably 50-150 rounds during the week. Weekends I might not shoot any, and I might shoot 100-200 rounds on steel. All of which really means jack-diddley. I try not to intentionally burn barrels out, but by the same token if I want to shoot I shoot, and don't worry about screwing on a new barrel when one is gone.
Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: SmokelessOriginally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: Bruised Possible that they were trying a modified version of a method I saw on YouTube. The 6.5 Guys had Scott Saterlee explain a 10 shot ladder test that is a shortened ladder test to save time and components. I tried this method with a new rifle and had great results. I don't understand the high round count though.
could be somethign like that and testing a bunch of different powders.
or several powders and several bullets. wouldnt be hard to put 10 different powder/primer/bullet combo's togther on a pure SD chase.
True.
With no target set up though,,,, makes no sense.
Low SD doesn't mean small groups by any stretch. Who knows, but I would rather shoot the small group with higher SD than not, but you need to keep track of group size for that.
if i understand that method (and i've watched the 6.5guys video) what they're doing is looking for the biggest powder SD node. its not about SD's at a single charge, its finding 3 or 4 consecutive charges that give a low SD, picking the powder charge pretty much dead in the middle of said identified node, then adjusting your seating depth - jump to lands - to find the accuracy within said node.
powder intervals are usually 0.2-0.3 grains, and based around known good nodes in a caliber with a given powder/bullet combo. for exmaple - 168 amax over varget in a 308 usually has a nice big node somewhere around 44-46 grains. so your test group might look like
43.3
43.6
43.9
44.2
44.5
44.8
45.1
45.4
45.7
46.0
Fair enough.
But then there are the guys who fire form with COW to save precious rounds down the barrel. Then presumably do all that ladder work.
could be somethign like that and testing a bunch of different powders.
or several powders and several bullets. wouldnt be hard to put 10 different powder/primer/bullet combo's togther on a pure SD chase.
True.
With no target set up though,,,, makes no sense.
Low SD doesn't mean small groups by any stretch. Who knows, but I would rather shoot the small group with higher SD than not, but you need to keep track of group size for that.
if i understand that method (and i've watched the 6.5guys video) what they're doing is looking for the biggest powder SD node. its not about SD's at a single charge, its finding 3 or 4 consecutive charges that give a low SD, picking the powder charge pretty much dead in the middle of said identified node, then adjusting your seating depth - jump to lands - to find the accuracy within said node.
powder intervals are usually 0.2-0.3 grains, and based around known good nodes in a caliber with a given powder/bullet combo. for exmaple - 168 amax over varget in a 308 usually has a nice big node somewhere around 44-46 grains. so your test group might look like
43.3
43.6
43.9
44.2
44.5
44.8
45.1
45.4
45.7
46.0
Fair enough.
But then there are the guys who fire form with COW to save precious rounds down the barrel. Then presumably do all that ladder work.
Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: Plant.Oneya. i have no clue what the guys were actually doing, just speculating based on comments here and what i've seen elsewhere.
*shrug*
maybe they knew what they were doing, maybe they dont have a freaking clue and just wanted to feel tacticool.
Yup
Agreed.
*shrug*
maybe they knew what they were doing, maybe they dont have a freaking clue and just wanted to feel tacticool.
Yup
Agreed.
rudymontana
New member
Break it in the way you're going to drive it??? Beautiful rifle orkan! Rudy