What is accurate?

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I need a rifle that I know is capable of performing also.



That is why the good Colonel said "Only accurate rifles are interesting". Couldn't be more true.........
 
To me the accuracy of the shooter (from field positions, not the bench) is of far greater importance than the accuracy of the gun. I have to wonder at psycodog saying that a 1.5" @ 100 yds rifle has no place for big game hunting. That is pretty much what has been out there shooting big game very dead for about 100 years. A 1.5 MOA rifle shot from a steady prone or rested position by a skilled shooter will kill deer just fine at 300 yards. However guys tend to get more fascinated with their equipment (guns that is!) and less so with personal skills.

I see here over and over a statement I've seen many times before, that having a very accurate rifle boosts the shooter's confidence.

Here's an idea...how about BEING a very accurate shooter boosting your confidence??? I have seen some extremely skilled field shots that could hit anything they wanted with average-grade rifles, fast and far. THAT is a real confidence-booster, when you know it's YOU and not the rifle.
 
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When your field position hold is tighter than your rifle will group (say in prone with a tight loop sling or prone over a steady rest) then it's time to upgrade your equipment. Otherwise IMHO it's wasted if you can't shoot up to it. Not many can if they get away from a bench or sandbags & bipod. Now there is a place for that stuff but it's a pretty specialized niche, and not the usual manner of gathering big game for most folks. Varmints and long-range stuff is in a world of its own.
 
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You need to understand that some groups are shot merely for recognition of accuracy potential. Doesn't mean they won't do it after you "tweak" the turrets. I do it often. Get a good group that is not in the bullseye, then dial turrets after. If shot hits where I want, I'm done.......



Agreed!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

I could give a rip how close to the bull the group is untill I have a load that merits dialing the scope to "that" load's POI..
Since all loads have a different POI you would just be wasting components and barrel life while chasing your tail...

JMO
 
this may be the 64 dollar question . My idea of accuracy is putting the first shot where it is ment to go most of the time in my areas one is all you get . Groups are fine and it shows that you and the weapon are capable of reproducing the same shot time after time . If you can not put the first one where it needs to be its just not worth pulling the trigger my IMO .
 
Aim small miss small. Varmint are small targets, if your gun dont shoot tight groups, aim small u can still miss big. For small targets like yotes and foxes, i like the goups in a thumb nail.
 
I'm happy with 1" at 100 yards. I think that's pretty dang accurate. I really can't shoot any better than that unless I have one of those expensive vise things that cost over $200 then maybe I could get them tighter, maybe.
 
A few points to take out of this thread... One is that most factory rifles are as the NRA describes--around 2"+ with factory ammo, throw in hand loads and you can get better.

Also I think 3 shot groups are not a good measurement, 5 shot at the minimum.

Second point and I have been as guilty as anyone--being gear/gun obsessed will not make you a better shot, being skill obsessed will. Colorado Pete made some fine points, We would all be better rifleman if we got a rifle to do 5 shots in a 1"-1.5" group @ 100 yards from bench with sandbag, left it at that and started putting our time and effort into becoming a better shot, working on fundamentals. I know I would/do benefit from it. When was the last time you saw a thread that asked for a good book or video that would help improve someone's shooting? Very seldom and it is a shame, on the other hand how many gun/gear oriented threads do we see---Hundreds. We should all refocus our attention to our skills--including myself!! Ok I am off my soapbox--sorry if I steered the thread away from where it started.
 
My rifles haven't read those BS NRA tests. The last 2 rifles I purchased can regularly shoot 5 shots in under an inch with factory ammo, and MUCH less than one inch with my reloads. I've shot multiple groups like that in front of other PM members on several occassions.

Call me an internet liar if you want, I don't care.

I feel sorry for you guys who think a 2-3 inch group at 100 yards is normal or acceptable for a modern bolt rifle. Either you're purchasing cruddy equipment, or your shooting skills are inadequate.
 
Maybe misunderstood!

You will outshoot my MOA rifle! With your, whatever, larger
grouping rifle just because you don't shoot off a bench!

I'll disagree that you can shoot (your own rifle) in field conditions better than if you shot (your own rifle) on a bench! I personally don't think it could be done.

Now, when you can steer a 3 inch shooter into a 1 inch shooter by doing it by hand, I want you to teach me how!

Trust me Colorado Pete, Im not making fun of the statement, or you! I'm just confused.

It would be outstanding, if in field, we all had those (magical bench rests) that pop up from nowhere! That would be handy.

I feel however that I should take every advantage of anything I can rest my rifle on to get that extra (edge) to make a killing shot!

A tree, backpack, binoculars, bi-pod, shooting sticks. I don't care what it is, as long as it helps me get the job done.

By the way, I shoot pretty crappy offhand! Jerry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
ill admit it, im a TERRIBLE shot. unless on a bench with sandbags and such. when im hunting, if i squeeze the trigger and what ever i think im pointed at dies, or at least gets close to dieing, ill take it.
 
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My name is Allen and I use shooting sticks........



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif ME TOO! A Man's gotta know his limitations...

Unless your are hunting on the 'Tecomate Ranch', you need to make due with what you have around you for support in the field. I'm an not a big fan of shooting offhand at game, especially if there is time to get steady somewhere...

Shooting sticks, daypack, rock, tree, stump, hay bale, whatever...there are impromptu rifle rests all around you. If you live in Montana /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif, dropping prone or sitting w/elbows on knees will offer a higher % shot than shooting offhand...

Shooting offhand at game is "iffy" at best. Yes, we've all done it, but I'll opt for an improvised support for my rifle EVERY time...

I agree what some of the other guys have mentioned, your rifle is only as "accurate" as your rest and skill level will allow...
 
I think its both equipment/skill.

You could hand a unskilled shooter a 1/2 moa rifle and it wont shoot 1/2 moa. You could give a skilled shooter a 1.5 moa rifle and the best you will get out of it is a 1.5" group.

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Shooting 3/8" 10 shots groups is great, great if they
are within 3/8" of the BULLSEYE. You see so many great
grouping pics online but I am alarmed at how far away
from there intended target they are.



2much and others covered this pretty good but I will add. When testing new loads I dont want them hitting POA because I dont want the strikes on the paper to destroy that POA.
 
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WhitBri- Is that what you call accurate? Not trying to be a smart arse, but That is what an author said. To me 1-1/2 in. is not exceptable accuracy for a hunting rifle, (for deer size game). Maybe for elephant or cape buffalo, something under 75 yds. JMO



No that's not what I said was accurate this is just what a writer said to "expect" may not even be what he calls accurate. I live in Iowa so the only rifles I own are varmit calibers, as I can't shoot deer here with high power, and they better shoot .5 or they are on their way to another home. But then again I seem to be never satisfied with just a .5 group either, I would tinker with it until I ran out of patience. The muzzleloader I shoot for deer here I expect 1.5" to 2" at 100 so if I did have a high power I would probably expect more than that as well.
 
In my opinion for bolt actions they should at least be capable of doing 1 MOA with handloads and a good trigger off a bench rest at 100 yards.

I prefer my varmint rifles to shoot .5 MOA and my big game rifles to shoot .75 MOA, laying prone with a bipod as thats how most of my hunting shots occur.

If they wont do that, they are gone.
 
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Shooting 3/8" 10 shots groups is great, great if they
are within 3/8" of the BULLSEYE. You see so many great
grouping pics online but I am alarmed at how far away
from there intended target they are.



2much and others covered this pretty good but I will add. When testing new loads I dont want them hitting POA because I dont want the strikes on the paper to destroy that POA.



I've never hand loaded my own ammo, its hard for the lamen
to gather how a differnt load will throw a round 3" the
other way of a previous load without expecting a keyhole
pattern from a tumbeling bullet. I was assuming your last
load would be close to the bullseye and the next test load
should be within an inch or two?

I take all the diffent store brand ammo I can find after
breaking in a gun and slowly fire all for groups, the best
that also groups the same on a cold shot is my choice. Over
the counter stuff must be extremely similar to one another
as I can honestly say I rarely see a shift other than the
group sizes overall. I'll read more on hand loading, sounds
like a very touchy hobby I would not have the patience for.
 
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