What did you agree to?--Shiavo case

Ive been glued to the tube for some strange reason over this deal. Well it somewhat hits home concidering my son is severly brain damaged and has cerebral palsy. He has a shrunken brain, has four large holes filled with fluid (two on each side). I havent read any medical reviews concerning Terri, but what little Ive seen on TV she is as coherent as my own son who is now 6 years old and cant feed himself. Cant walk, cant stand up, cant play, cant speak. We have to give him 6-7 different types of medicines a day. He has a hard time controlling his swallowing, another words he drools. We inserted a G-Tube when he was about 3 since he was always sick (keeping him out of therapy and now school) and we couldnt administer his oral medicines since his nose would get stopped up and he couldnt drink his bottle. He cant move his mucus around like 'normal' people i.e. snort, hack, etc. That is a natural defense to common diseases and he is incapable of those 'normal' bodily functions so he stays sick.

Im torn, the estranged husband wants to execute her wishes (or so he says) but there are accepting caring parents that want to care for her. What do you do?

Its a burden to care for these types of cases. Since my son cant walk, one hip is now out of socket and the other is on its way. He now has to go through surgery again. Its always something. If we wouldnt have accepted artifical care such as his feeding tube, the respirator that kept him alive for 2 weeks when he was born, he would be dead. At some point it has to be the caretakers decision.
 
If you feel that your tax dollars dont already go towards keeping these types alive you are fooling yourself. Multi-millions of dollars per year. Do you think I could afford a $7,000 wheelchair, a $4,000 stander, a $5,000 enclosed bed, therapy once per week, $300 worth of diapers/bed mats per month, $500 worth of medication per month, $300 worth of doctor visits per month, $15,000 wheel chair left when he gets bigger, hip surgery $?????, cost to drive and hotel fees to drive to the Shriners hosptial some 300 miles away..........................

The help is there and should be. Too many families struggle through situtations such as this and the help is there for a reason.
 
Tommy,

I don't believe that your case and hers even compare. While I know nothing but what the media provides to me for her, I only vaguely knew of your situation. She supposedly expressed that she didn't want this to happen to her, and the fact that it has been ongoing for 15 years.

Tommy, I know you are a stand up guy. Since I found out about your situation at the hunt, I have kept my hopes and thoughts for you and your family. Maybe it is different for me, but I always offer hopes for children with disabilities. While my own son doesn't have any known disabilities, I would have done the same thing that you have done. It would be a truly difficult moment when and if that decision needed to be made. The problem I see, is that the Husband, the one that has been providing for her, has made that decision, and he did so over 2 years ago. The parents, they don't want to accept his decision. This is what I was complaining about. The since 2003, when the tube was removed the first time, she has been basically a ward of the state, so our news is reporting. This is the first time that her parents have stepped up to take responsibility. Guys, please correct me if I am wrong. My only source of info for this is from the News and we all know how the news distorts facts.

I have talked to you a little bit about this subject, and how your wife feels. I think that God doesn't give anything to people that he doesn't think can handle it. I have no clue why bad things happen to such good people. I can only think that you haven't given up hope. Possibly, a miracle could occur. In Terri Schavio's, I don't know the people involved. I wish that something better could happen for her. I don't want to write her off, but her husband already has.

I would like to amend my post above. I mentioned that I didn't want my tax dollars to help her or anyone else in that condition. What I meant to say, is that once hope has been given up, then the funds should be pulled away. This is what i was trying to say, and did a poor job of doing so. The Shiriners' Hospitals have helped more children than most people know about. Also, the McDonalds House's are great institutions also.

I am not sure of the facts in her case. I am only aware of what has been pushed into my brain by the media. I think that the media should stay out of this case, as well as the judges and the politicians. Again, not knowing the "facts" about this, but it has been told that only after the supposed removal of the tube has the parents tried to get custody of her. This is what I am basing my opinions off of.

I guess it all boils down to the fact. that as long as you are trying to help, and have hope, then you should have as much help as you can possibly get. Once that hope is gone, then so should be the funds. Terri's hubby supposedly has 2 new vehicles and 2 houses, etc. This is why it even comes up.

I hope that you understand my slip up. I am not backtracking because of you, or anyone else. I was aware of your situation prior to my post. I just wish I could have better expressed myself previously. Good Luck, and keep up your hope. I still have you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.
 
Giving the fact that 15 years ago she fell victim to an eating disorder that was misdiagnosed may be a different story. My son had no chance, she did and didnt EAT. Most people with that disorder wont come out and tell their doctors which somewhere self responsibility should be equated. Not making her doctor aware of any disorder leaves him liable for misdiagnosis and all the legal junk that follows. That is if she knew of course but whos to say.

My complaint is that someone somewhere chose to let her live 15 years ago, and now have chosen to bail. If he had the choice then like he obviously does now, why has it gone on for 15 years? If she was given a EEG then which Im sure they of course did and she flat lined then make the decision then.

The reason I think that maybe now her parents should take hold of the reigns is that there is a report saying that during his regular visits to the hospice that he would make comments like "when is the [beeep] going to die". That to me doesnt sound like someone that needs to be in on the decision making process. If he made those comments that nurses have claimed then what does that say for his credibility and shouldnt the parents take over?

If he kept his nose clean I would side with him and did up until the point until I heard that report.
 
Tommy,

I had no idea that is what started this whole thing. If the problem started by her own hand, so to speak, then I have ZERO sympathy for her.

Her hubby, he might have had hope for the first 5 to 10 years, but after that point, he gave up. I haven't been placed in that position, and I can't say what I might have done if I had been in his place.

This ultimately sounds like a family matter that went wrong. I wish that everyone knew the facts of this case. I wish that I knew more of the facts, it could drastically change my views.

If the husband has been making those statements, I really don't know what to think. My Grandma was in a nursing home, with Alzhemiers. While not the same as Terri Schiavo, she was slowly degrading. At first, it was a slow progression. It went through the various stages and it was almost like her mind was holding her body hostage. We were with her to the end.

When someone suffers, I have lots of sympathy. When someone suffers from their own actions, I don't have sympathy. The more the facts come out on this Schiavo case, the worse it will be for everyone.
 
My interest in this case doesn't completely lie in Terri Shiavo's interests. On a personal level I do want her to live but here's the issue as I see it:

When society decides that somebody should be euthanized because they live a marginal life then we're headed down the slippery slope. Sure things start out 'for thier own good', but pretty soon things will deteriorate to 'society's good'. THEN WHAT? Hitler euthanized quite a number of people in the 'interest of society'. See where I'm going? And don't think it can't happen here! This is a turning away from the 'sanctity of life'. Don't think so? Look at how many abortions happen each year and nobody seems to care! And nobody is really fooling anybody with that it's not human till it's born crap so don't even go there!

There will be absolutely no GOOD that will come of this case. The fight isn't just limited to Terri Shiavo per se. This fight will be a turning point for our society. Our 'moral compass' according to one source has begun to stop spinning and now is pointed 'south'....

JHolly, please don't take me wrong here, but you're just not informed on the particulars of this case! If you only watch CNN, NBC, CBS you'll only get part of the story. There is a ton more detail 'out there' in the talk radio world, Fox News, Drudge, Town Hall, etc. etc.

Again, I do want Terri Shiavo to live, but the issue is MUCH larger than her. Trust me, we're just over the apex of the slope and hanging on by fingernails...
 
The decision hasn’t been made by society. Her husband who is her legal guardian has made it. For the last seven years the issue has been, is he acting in her best interest? So far the courts have ruled that he is.
 
Society has participated in this decision. Look at the polls, look at the people arguing both sides of this case. Society has made a decision by allowing this to happen. Period.
 
By nature the courts should be more concerned with the Rule Of Law than public opinion. I do believe that public opinion will cause some changes in the current laws. As far as David Limbaugh’s statement that medical professionals are “coming out of the woodwork” to dispute the diagnosis; where have they been for the last seven years that this has been in court?
 
I think you'd need to ask them that question. Better yet, why don't you ask the parents. They've tried for years to bring in doctors only to have the husband shut them down. It's beginning to look to me like you haven't heard all the facts in this case. Not to say that you'd agree with me necessarily, but your question seems to indicate a lack of knowledge regarding specific details.

If you read all of David's article, you'd have seen that the husband has refused to let her be treated by a great many doctors who have expressed an interest in working with Terri, not to mention high expectations for a level of recovery certainly higher than she currently is.

Your comment about the courts is true. Have you not noticed though that the lower level courts have IGNORED the rule of law? Remember that little detail over the weekend where congress convened a special session to pass a law to protect Terri Shiavo? What we have here is a court system at the state level that is trying to MAKE law, not enforce law. Just in case you didn't know, CONGRESS makes law NOT judges.

So, that brings us back to the 'will of the people' or in your words 'public opinion'. Guess what? When congress passed that law, they were enacting the will of the people. So apparently there are still more people who believe in the sanctity of life than there are that don't-that's very comforting. However, what is happening here will set wheels in motion and set a precedent that will pave the way for a bunch of 'merciful deaths'. Notice the quotes around 'merciful'. Starvation is anything but merciful-even if the person were only half-aware they'd be suffering mightily!
 
It isnt until 7 years after her collapse does he mention her initial wishes to die. AFTER he asks for and is denied
$20,000,000 to care for her and only after he chooses to remarry that year.

Sounds more like his wishes then hers. Nope not many would wish to go on, but what do you do, kill em after 7 years?

Gotta agree with pyledriver, slippery indeed.
 
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Starvation is anything but merciful-even if the person were only half-aware they'd be suffering mightily!



Just a quick correction. Starvation is actually fairly merciful. The first couple of days are tough with hunger pangs, etc but after that the body enters a state of keytosis (SP?) where the body uses its self for fuel. Once that happens there are no more hunger pangs and as one degrades on slowly shuts down, painlessly, until dead.

I also want to add that this has been amazing reading for me. I'm amazed at the opinions coming out here and where they all seem to come from.

This is one issue that I'm torn on and seem to become more torn every day.
 
I have been looking a lot at this issue and the more sources you look at the more tangled this seems to be. I have never seen so many opinions that are different but are based on valid points. When you add the emotional impact, it makes me glad that I don’t have to make a decision here. One thing I will disagree with here. Congress didn’t pass a law to save Terri, for all their talk and bluster. They passed a law moving jurisdiction to the federal courts and that’s all the bill provided for.
 
Sad part is we put people in jail for not watering their dogs and cats!! We worried about the prisoners in G-Bay, so that they had politically correct food/drink. Pulling the plug on a heart/lung machine is one thing, starving someone who might be more aware it seems than we were all led to believe in quite another !! SAD day indeed, we've reached a new low on this one.
 
Hey RimRunner, maybe I need to check out that 'law' from Congress a little closer.. If they just moved jurisdiction to the Federal courts then I guess they really didn't ACTUALLY do much at all with regards to Terri or others who may follow her predicament.

Yes...many opinions surround this issue! When I said before that no good would come of this situation it was because this is sort of a 'pandora's box' issue. Y'know, like we sometimes say in the electronics world-once you let the smoke out you can't put it back in! NOT to make light, but I'm only trying to illustrate my point.
 
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When I said before that no good would come of this situation it was because this is sort of a 'pandora's box' issue.



In more ways than one.It's called deviance up.
 
There are several documents on the Shiavo case on findlaw.com. I think these issues should be brought to light. Maybe we can find a better way to deal with this.
 
Family matter; which means none of the Presidents business, none of Congresses business, none of YOUR business, and none of my business.
 
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Family matter; which means none of the Presidents business, none of Congresses business, none of YOUR business, and none of my business.




Some people say that about a lot of things. Like beating their kids, beating their wife, allowing their kids to drink, incest, the list goes on. At what point do you think the law has the right to determine if it is "family business" or not?
 
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