Wake up!People!!

we have to beat them, but it all comes down to where you spend your time & energy.

engaging them directly is a total waste, it accomplishes nothing. A true believer is a true believer & you have better odds of winning the lottery than changing ones mind on anything.

Now, talking to someone uncommitted, that may help. the general public doesn't hunt, doesn't really know much about hunting & generally doesn't care, but they can be convinced to support something. Banning hunting contests, for example. For something that ends up on a ballot where the public votes on it, this matters.

More likely, pressure is brought on office holders to change things. Those are the people that matter, those are where you need to spend your efforts when the antis get cranked up & bring pressure to change laws or regs & get something banned.
 
Stu is right on the mark. You will never win an argument with an anti, as they will grind you into the ground with the sheer volume of stupid and immense lack of logic.
 
Exactly, you can't reasonably debate someone who is unreasonable. Best bet is to combat their misinformation and propaganda with solid fact based information. Combat the light they try and portray us in with open honesty...don't let them make us what we are not. While we need some actual campaigning, our everyday opportunities to interact with people is where we can make our biggest inroads.
 
Originally Posted By: g BoAz has 40,000 to 50,000 coyotes killed per year? If I remember right (and I may not) Utah had between 7000 and 8000 turned in for bounty. Question I have for anyone are those numbers right? If so that is surprising.
I believe the numbers are correct for both states. I'm thinking that most hunters do not participate in contests or bounty programs because that is not the reason why they hunt coyotes.
 
Quote: Best bet is to combat their misinformation and propaganda with solid fact based information.

Antis and liberals in general never let the facts get in the way of their agenda. These people are ruled by emotions more than anything.

Like was said spend your time, efforts and facts on those that matter and have the power.
 
Originally Posted By: FursniperOriginally Posted By: g BoAz has 40,000 to 50,000 coyotes killed per year? If I remember right (and I may not) Utah had between 7000 and 8000 turned in for bounty. Question I have for anyone are those numbers right? If so that is surprising.
I believe the numbers are correct for both states. I'm thinking that most hunters do not participate in contests or bounty programs because that is not the reason why they hunt coyotes.

And how many of those 7-8000 turned in for bounty in Utah were actually shot in Nevada? I know of at least 5. I'm betting a lot more.
 
Originally Posted By: Yellowhammer Quote: Best bet is to combat their misinformation and propaganda with solid fact based information.

Antis and liberals in general never let the facts get in the way of their agenda. These people are ruled by emotions more than anything.

Like was said spend your time, efforts and facts on those that matter and have the power.

That was pretty much the point of my post. To be more clear, when they dole out misinformation and propaganda to the public, it is our job to combat that by educating the public with solid fact based information.

Facts are useless to the antis, they would rather be wrong loudly...
 
Originally Posted By: crapshoot
And how many of those 7-8000 turned in for bounty in Utah were actually shot in Nevada? I know of at least 5. I'm betting a lot more.

Not just Nevada, also Idaho and Wyoming and I bet it is a lot of them. Utah wants to believe that everyone is honest and that they are all being shot in Utah.
 
Originally Posted By: icope2000Hello everyone!! YES I do hunt and support our RIGHT to hunt, but just asking why are there contests? I just started yote hunting 2yrs ago so, I guess I don't know about them. So I must admit I feel they sound weird to me. Please be nice, and could you let me know why do we have them? Now as far as I am concerned we do unite as its our "rights", to hunt. I was brought up hunting, I was told I got to go with Dad or Grandpa gun deer when I could walk!



If you've never hunted or fished a tournament, no... you wouldn't understand. Some people will tell you it's about the money, and it may very well be for some, but in my case, in the case of many others, it is the challenge of hunting/fishing whatever conditions the good lord throws at you the day of the tournament. It's about testing yourself to see if you can adapt to less than favorable conditions and still be successful. It's about testing yourself to see if you can survive the elements and be successful. I know beyond even the remotest shadow of a doubt, that I am a much better fisherman because of my tournament experience. I know that I can and will fish weather that would keep most at home, and be successful, because of my tournament experience.

And, honestly the bottom line is, that it isn't even remotely about the money, because most tournament players spend 10 - 10,000 times what they make in return. Those that are successful will spend 10 times what they make in return, those who aren't will spend 10,000 times what they earn, learning to be.

It's more or less like attending school, and going to college.

And, if you doubt it, you really need to go try a tournament or two, and see just how successful you are.
 
Originally Posted By: Stu Farishwe have to beat them, but it all comes down to where you spend your time & energy.

engaging them directly is a total waste, it accomplishes nothing. A true believer is a true believer & you have better odds of winning the lottery than changing ones mind on anything.

Now, talking to someone uncommitted, that may help. the general public doesn't hunt, doesn't really know much about hunting & generally doesn't care, but they can be convinced to support something. Banning hunting contests, for example. For something that ends up on a ballot where the public votes on it, this matters.

More likely, pressure is brought on office holders to change things. Those are the people that matter, those are where you need to spend your efforts when the antis get cranked up & bring pressure to change laws or regs & get something banned.




That is totally dependent upon whether or not you are able to manipulate the conservation in such manner, as to allow them to discredit themselves. If you can force them to discredit themselves, and clearly point out the lies in their argument, you can win the argument in the eyes of others, whether the no-minds concede or not. Arguing with no-minds otherwise is definitely pointless, in the respect that, you will never convince them they are wrong, kinda like talking to a fence post, teaching a monkey algebra, teaching fish to sing.
 
While these people are trying to stand up for coyotes, they are in essence lending themselves as pawns to more governmental control of just another issue... Remember we use to be "one nation under God"? America's civic and moral culture flourished under the ideal of us being a Christian Nation... If a minority sees it as a religious statement against their beliefs, simply don't say the words... Don't accept monetary payments through welfare either for US currency also contains references to God... Definitely don't add fuel for more restrictions on what is left of America's final frontiers...

Even their claims of coyotes belonging to "everyone" is a political idea leaning towards socialism... I lay no claims to any coyote until I tie a drag to his carcass, and even then... I only have the body... not the coyote...

Seems to me our side has a debacle on organizing and funding... While we are out enjoying what we live to do, they are seeking funding through organizations and "societies" that are totaling fraudulent into how and where their monies are used... Totalitarian Governments thrive with large groups of such sheep...

Remember... We are getting to the point of becoming "one nation under surveillance"... Hide your kills...definitely don't share stories with pic, for we should be ashamed of what we do...
 


Not just Nevada, also Idaho and Wyoming and I bet it is a lot of them. Utah wants to believe that everyone is honest and that they are all being shot in Utah. [/quote]




The division would hope people are honest. I've had people contact me and try to get me to turn in coyotes they've shot in other states. It has caused some very short discussions when you tell them your integrity is worth more than that.
They are the same kind of people who would cheat playing solitaire and be excited when they win.
 
Originally Posted By: 5spdUnfortunatly we as hunters wont ever get "organized" or as funded as they are.
We have all seen how they attack and what do we do...NOTHING! That is besides whine & cry when they take (or try to) anther chunk out of our rights to hunt or get areas closed off.
Until we get together & STICK together we will continue to loose.
Just they way Ive been seeing it for 40 years+.
I fight locally and get involved, but to my dismay I see very little input from my fellow hunters right in my own back yard.


Re-read that, several times. Let it sink in.

Here in Colorado, we lost the spring bear hunt and leghold trapping due to a vote of Colorado citizens, about 1995 or so.

At the time, I was speaking with a Colorado Division of Wildlife employee, and he said we will lose this.

The reason??? He said that LESS than 30% of the licensed hunters in Colorado were even registered to vote!!!

That is apathy, on our part. Apathy will lose our rights, and not just hunting.

Get registered to vote, and then vote. Simple as that.
 
Hornet I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head!!

Yesterday, in Tucson, Arizona Game and Fish held there Fall hunt recommendations for 2015 meeting. Since their location is very close to where the protestors of this years PM convention took place, I thought it would be worth the gas to represent myself as a local predator hunter in case the anti's showed up (none did). There were only 5 of us who attended, one of which was a snowbird from Minnesota.

The officer said this is about the norm for these meetings........I was shocked! Anyway, I was able to put my 2 cents in with the officers about opening up night hunting for coyotes earlier like September or October versus December. I also asked if they would consider opening other areas especially where I live to night hunting. Funny thing.......the Game and Fish are looking to open at least one section in each area to night hunting in Arizona but they've had very little input from hunters.

Kevin
 
Unless rights hit people right in the face, and they wake up one day and say "What happened I can't hunt anymore."? They will not realize what is happening right in front of their eyes. It's a shame.
 
ever think about the fact that this stuff happened way less before obummer,he has divided and broke this country like never in history and is still in office.when he gives free acess and money to illegals for votes we may never get things straight again
 
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