Veteran faces 21 years in prison for possession of pistol magazines
- Thread starter azmastablasta
- Start date
SlickerThanSnot
New member
good to see you back and making posts again fw707
tnshootist
New member
I understand what each of the posters are saying.
One comment,If you are really a thinking man it don't matter what subject you are discussing if you think back from one thing to the next you will always wind up at the originating point of all things.
I believe it says in the Bible to submit to Gods law and then to the law of the land.
One comment,If you are really a thinking man it don't matter what subject you are discussing if you think back from one thing to the next you will always wind up at the originating point of all things.
I believe it says in the Bible to submit to Gods law and then to the law of the land.
Originally Posted By: tnshootistI understand what each of the posters are saying.
One comment,If you are really a thinking man it don't matter what subject you are discussing if you think back from one thing to the next you will always wind up at the originating point of all things.
I believe it says in the Bible to submit to Gods law and then to the law of the land.
tn,
if you are really a "thinking man" are you going to submit yourself to the "law" of a book written by ignorant and uneducated desert dwellers 2000 years ago?
One comment,If you are really a thinking man it don't matter what subject you are discussing if you think back from one thing to the next you will always wind up at the originating point of all things.
I believe it says in the Bible to submit to Gods law and then to the law of the land.
tn,
if you are really a "thinking man" are you going to submit yourself to the "law" of a book written by ignorant and uneducated desert dwellers 2000 years ago?
tnshootist
New member
If you are talking about Jesus and his teaching I am going to try each day anew to do so.I will fail each day of course but I can try.
I have not heard anything better yet.
I don't think much of whats modern thinking will last 2000 years.
People mistake education and wisdom.I have met a lot of educated fools but not any wise fools.
To submit to me means to not let undue pride be a part of me.
Misplaced pride is where most of our troubles come from.
Pride is what makes a person think he did not deserve to be stopped by a cop.
Pride is what makes the cop get bent out of shape if he don't get the respect he thinks he deserves.
As far as desert dwellers of 2000 years ago,could you raise a family under the same conditions? How ignorant were they?
As far as the educated elites. If it was left up to them alone they would be looking at a black screen.
I have not heard anything better yet.
I don't think much of whats modern thinking will last 2000 years.
People mistake education and wisdom.I have met a lot of educated fools but not any wise fools.
To submit to me means to not let undue pride be a part of me.
Misplaced pride is where most of our troubles come from.
Pride is what makes a person think he did not deserve to be stopped by a cop.
Pride is what makes the cop get bent out of shape if he don't get the respect he thinks he deserves.
As far as desert dwellers of 2000 years ago,could you raise a family under the same conditions? How ignorant were they?
As far as the educated elites. If it was left up to them alone they would be looking at a black screen.
Originally Posted By: tnshootist
As far as desert dwellers of 2000 years ago,could you raise a family under the same conditions? How ignorant were they?
They were ignorant enough to believe in blood sacrifices.
Abraham was ignorant enough to believe that God had commanded him to murder his own son and he was ignorant enough to be committed to doing it.
That's ignorant enough for me.
As far as desert dwellers of 2000 years ago,could you raise a family under the same conditions? How ignorant were they?
They were ignorant enough to believe in blood sacrifices.
Abraham was ignorant enough to believe that God had commanded him to murder his own son and he was ignorant enough to be committed to doing it.
That's ignorant enough for me.
tnshootist
New member
And Jesus shed his blood to stop that.
Many who are educated beyond their intelligence find it to be a roadblock to understanding.
Many who are educated beyond their intelligence find it to be a roadblock to understanding.
Originally Posted By: tnshootistAnd Jesus shed his blood to stop that.
Many who are educated beyond their intelligence find it to be a roadblock to understanding.
More pagan blood sacrifice.
And many otherwise intelligent people stick their fingers in their ears and run away from understanding.
It is absolutely unbelievable to believe and assert that intelligence is a roadblock to understanding. Anybody that would actually believe that would wish for the return of stone-age ignorance.
Many who are educated beyond their intelligence find it to be a roadblock to understanding.
More pagan blood sacrifice.
And many otherwise intelligent people stick their fingers in their ears and run away from understanding.
It is absolutely unbelievable to believe and assert that intelligence is a roadblock to understanding. Anybody that would actually believe that would wish for the return of stone-age ignorance.
tnshootist
New member
Read my post again sir.
I believe you just proved my point.
I believe you just proved my point.
azmastablasta
New member
Amen John. Good to see someone understands the truth. The foolish of the world will one day soon be on their knees proclaiming Jesus is truly the Messiah. It's a shame but you can't throw all the starfish back in the sea. I'm just sayin.
SlickerThanSnot
New member
Originally Posted By: NdIndyI think I missed my exit guys, I'm headed back a couple miles
dont blame you. there is some strange thinking going on in this one.
dont blame you. there is some strange thinking going on in this one.
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
Let's go back to the original information in the initial post...Even if he was stopped for speeding, unless it's to a highly excessive degree (usually determined to be 20 mph over the posted limit) where it could become a "bondable" offense and would require a custodial inventory search and even the locked container is protected, and with no other information presented, a minor speeding violation is rarely a real suspicion of DWI..
My real concern comes in at this point..Quote
olice found three 17-round Glock handgun magazines in a locked container that was opened without Mokhiber's consent. Although Mokhiber was the owner of a licensed and registered handgun, no gun was present in the vehicle at the time of the traffic stop – only the magazines....From the case law that I've studied, this was an illegal search and seizure unless there was a legitimate warrant present...
I have two vehicles and in each is a "Security Safe", secured to the vehicle, that has a specific combination and the contents of each is "personal and private" unless I choose to disclose the contents voluntarily (not likely to happen) and this is backed up by federal court rulings at various levels...Any violation of my Fourth Amendment rights by any LEO will result in a cash windfall in my favor when the dust settles...
My real concern comes in at this point..Quote
olice found three 17-round Glock handgun magazines in a locked container that was opened without Mokhiber's consent. Although Mokhiber was the owner of a licensed and registered handgun, no gun was present in the vehicle at the time of the traffic stop – only the magazines....From the case law that I've studied, this was an illegal search and seizure unless there was a legitimate warrant present...I have two vehicles and in each is a "Security Safe", secured to the vehicle, that has a specific combination and the contents of each is "personal and private" unless I choose to disclose the contents voluntarily (not likely to happen) and this is backed up by federal court rulings at various levels...Any violation of my Fourth Amendment rights by any LEO will result in a cash windfall in my favor when the dust settles...
NdIndy
New member
Googling this one yields pretty much no additional info either. The first just says he was stopped for speed, even though he "had nothing to drink" he did fsm, and was arrested because he asked then to turn on cameras, and they found the mags and added that charge. That's a questionable line to say the least, so I'm guessing there is some missing info or we're in contempt of cop territory.
Others say he was arrrsted for dui, searched and found the mags, aquitted on dui but mags are an issue.
And then i found the mags were locked up.
No transcripts or anything and what i did find reads as 1 article was the source for all others, so xerox of a xerox of a xerox kind of thing. Garbage in and garbage out.
So, speed, dui and then search. As before traffic stops clear up more issues than you would expect. Being aquitted doesnt mean he wasnt drinking, or that he wasnt drunk. The search though, again might be FOTPT, but any basic defense attorney could spot that. So my guess, which is just a guess, if the mags were locked up, either he gave consent to opening or the car was impounded and it was found during inventory.
If he gave consent and it was a valid arrest, hes up a creek. If he didn't give consent and it wasn't an inventory, he'll likely be off on appeal. And if it was a bad arrest, appeal should take care of it again. And hopefully he'll either move or move his collection in line with local law. Ignoring it is risky, obviously. Even if it's eventually overturned it can still make life suck for a while.
Others say he was arrrsted for dui, searched and found the mags, aquitted on dui but mags are an issue.
And then i found the mags were locked up.
No transcripts or anything and what i did find reads as 1 article was the source for all others, so xerox of a xerox of a xerox kind of thing. Garbage in and garbage out.
So, speed, dui and then search. As before traffic stops clear up more issues than you would expect. Being aquitted doesnt mean he wasnt drinking, or that he wasnt drunk. The search though, again might be FOTPT, but any basic defense attorney could spot that. So my guess, which is just a guess, if the mags were locked up, either he gave consent to opening or the car was impounded and it was found during inventory.
If he gave consent and it was a valid arrest, hes up a creek. If he didn't give consent and it wasn't an inventory, he'll likely be off on appeal. And if it was a bad arrest, appeal should take care of it again. And hopefully he'll either move or move his collection in line with local law. Ignoring it is risky, obviously. Even if it's eventually overturned it can still make life suck for a while.
Originally Posted By: NdIndy
If he didn't give consent and it wasn't an inventory, he'll likely be off on appeal. And if it was a bad arrest, appeal should take care of it again. And hopefully he'll either move or move his collection in line with local law. Ignoring it is risky, obviously. Even if it's eventually overturned it can still make life suck for a while.
For him, i hope that it's overturned, but in the meantime, it has turned his life up-side-down. Altered his relationship with his daughter, and cost him thosands and a lot in the terms of opportunity cost and potential earnings in the future.
I personally wish that camera's were required on all LEO, at all times they are working, and only turned off during restroom breaks, or meal times. Maybe make them auto record as soon as they get out of their vehicle. I strongly believe 99% of the time LEO are doing the right thing, and video would support their testimony and show what they are putting up with, and I really wish that kind of footage showing most of the people being arrested acting like idiots would get the stricter punishment for being a pain.
If he didn't give consent and it wasn't an inventory, he'll likely be off on appeal. And if it was a bad arrest, appeal should take care of it again. And hopefully he'll either move or move his collection in line with local law. Ignoring it is risky, obviously. Even if it's eventually overturned it can still make life suck for a while.
For him, i hope that it's overturned, but in the meantime, it has turned his life up-side-down. Altered his relationship with his daughter, and cost him thosands and a lot in the terms of opportunity cost and potential earnings in the future.
I personally wish that camera's were required on all LEO, at all times they are working, and only turned off during restroom breaks, or meal times. Maybe make them auto record as soon as they get out of their vehicle. I strongly believe 99% of the time LEO are doing the right thing, and video would support their testimony and show what they are putting up with, and I really wish that kind of footage showing most of the people being arrested acting like idiots would get the stricter punishment for being a pain.
NdIndy
New member
My dept started using in car cameras and body mics right before i left. The cameras were always on, kind of. They kept recording in a loop and would go to hard storage whenever they were actually turned on. Then they start saving 60 seconds prior to the activation, which was either manual, remote, or triggered automatically when The overheads kick on. So in theory it shows the traffic offense that happened before you turn on the lights.
They are massively intrusive and in several ways unsafe to use. Yes i can understand their appropriate use, but bear with me looking at it from the officers standpoint.
Obviously i don't know what everyone does for a living but for this argument you work a desk job. You go to work, sit down at your desk,and your boss sits down next to you and spends the day saying "what are you doing now?" every 3 seconds. When you pick up the phone, he picks up an extension and listens. When he's not in the room he leaves a baby monitor on your desk so he can listen in constantly and a camera he can remotely activate without your knowledge. When you go to the bathroom he stands next to you. When you take a lunch break with your wife you have to take the camera with you and leave it on so he can watch and listen to the entire break. If you don't take it, you get suspended or fired. And this happens all day every day, for your entire career. And despite being told it wouldnt be used for, its used almost exclusively to punish you for not filling a quota.
Intrusive? Yes. Demoralizing? Absolutely.
Now let's say a little more realistically that you have a dangerous job and one of the ways you keep from having your chest ventilated from a distance is by emplying a bit of stealth. So you've worked for YEARS to get the option of a soft uniform that uses patches instead of big shiny reflective targets on your chest to make being stealthy in the dark a bit easier. And now you have something with an actual blinking light that has to be carried in the same place, and if you cover the flashing kill me sign you get suspended or fired.
Or if your job sometimes requires you take make right now decisions to keep from dying, but now you have the added concern of "how will this look on camera?"
They can be useful tools to collect evidence, and few officers wont acknowledge their usefullness when manually activated or triggering with the lights. But the always on and remote activation that most systems use destroys morale and hampers productivity.
I had already given my resignation when they did the installs and either suspending me or firing me would have been doing me a favor. So i had no issues not carrying any of the new required equipment. And i definitely wasnt being proactive at that point anyway. But before i left town entirely the people i spoke with confirmed the worst of what people feared when the dept did the installs. Supervisors that NEVER left the lot and spent all shift on the computer cycling through different officers mics and cameras.
Morale was low when i left to say the least, and it was deep in the negative range when i moved.
They are massively intrusive and in several ways unsafe to use. Yes i can understand their appropriate use, but bear with me looking at it from the officers standpoint.
Obviously i don't know what everyone does for a living but for this argument you work a desk job. You go to work, sit down at your desk,and your boss sits down next to you and spends the day saying "what are you doing now?" every 3 seconds. When you pick up the phone, he picks up an extension and listens. When he's not in the room he leaves a baby monitor on your desk so he can listen in constantly and a camera he can remotely activate without your knowledge. When you go to the bathroom he stands next to you. When you take a lunch break with your wife you have to take the camera with you and leave it on so he can watch and listen to the entire break. If you don't take it, you get suspended or fired. And this happens all day every day, for your entire career. And despite being told it wouldnt be used for, its used almost exclusively to punish you for not filling a quota.
Intrusive? Yes. Demoralizing? Absolutely.
Now let's say a little more realistically that you have a dangerous job and one of the ways you keep from having your chest ventilated from a distance is by emplying a bit of stealth. So you've worked for YEARS to get the option of a soft uniform that uses patches instead of big shiny reflective targets on your chest to make being stealthy in the dark a bit easier. And now you have something with an actual blinking light that has to be carried in the same place, and if you cover the flashing kill me sign you get suspended or fired.
Or if your job sometimes requires you take make right now decisions to keep from dying, but now you have the added concern of "how will this look on camera?"
They can be useful tools to collect evidence, and few officers wont acknowledge their usefullness when manually activated or triggering with the lights. But the always on and remote activation that most systems use destroys morale and hampers productivity.
I had already given my resignation when they did the installs and either suspending me or firing me would have been doing me a favor. So i had no issues not carrying any of the new required equipment. And i definitely wasnt being proactive at that point anyway. But before i left town entirely the people i spoke with confirmed the worst of what people feared when the dept did the installs. Supervisors that NEVER left the lot and spent all shift on the computer cycling through different officers mics and cameras.
Morale was low when i left to say the least, and it was deep in the negative range when i moved.
Good examples, but i have bad news for you.
I can look up and right now see 4 camera's in the office. There is a log of every thing i do all day at work. They know every single website and all the information for those sites.
The only place there isn't a camera is the bathroom.
I have to badge in, so they know what time i got here, I have to badge out. They know the logs of what i have done, the emails i have sent, and yes my manager can look at the meetings, review the logs of the phone calls (all recorded) and everything i have done, every section of the building i have gone to, and who i talked to is recorded.
Yes, it does make you rethink what you are going to say or respond. Yep.
There is a camera on the front of the Computer. Just because you don't see a light, doesn't mean it's not on.
It's simple, there is code that says to turn on the camera. record images to X.. Turn red light on as soon as the camera is turned on.. But a piece of tape over the red light doesn't mean that device is not recording. Troops wear body cameras in the raids and do just fine.
But that means that it comes back to accountability for the time spent.
You admit there are quota's. Those are tied to what did you do over the period of the hours you worked. Same thing. It should be suspicious when there is a big push of traffic enforcement being done at the end of the month or end of a quarter.
I believe that each day, a log of hours worked, miles driven, gallons of gas used, stops made, contact made, tickets issued, and so on should be filed, There should be camera backup for all of it to support the reporting. Which should be reviewed and periodically, randomly sampled to ensure that it's accurate and complete.
LEOs work for the people and it's reasonable to expect they are doing everything by the written manual all day, every day, while on the job.
I can look up and right now see 4 camera's in the office. There is a log of every thing i do all day at work. They know every single website and all the information for those sites.
The only place there isn't a camera is the bathroom.
I have to badge in, so they know what time i got here, I have to badge out. They know the logs of what i have done, the emails i have sent, and yes my manager can look at the meetings, review the logs of the phone calls (all recorded) and everything i have done, every section of the building i have gone to, and who i talked to is recorded.
Yes, it does make you rethink what you are going to say or respond. Yep.
There is a camera on the front of the Computer. Just because you don't see a light, doesn't mean it's not on.
It's simple, there is code that says to turn on the camera. record images to X.. Turn red light on as soon as the camera is turned on.. But a piece of tape over the red light doesn't mean that device is not recording. Troops wear body cameras in the raids and do just fine.
But that means that it comes back to accountability for the time spent.
You admit there are quota's. Those are tied to what did you do over the period of the hours you worked. Same thing. It should be suspicious when there is a big push of traffic enforcement being done at the end of the month or end of a quarter.
I believe that each day, a log of hours worked, miles driven, gallons of gas used, stops made, contact made, tickets issued, and so on should be filed, There should be camera backup for all of it to support the reporting. Which should be reviewed and periodically, randomly sampled to ensure that it's accurate and complete.
LEOs work for the people and it's reasonable to expect they are doing everything by the written manual all day, every day, while on the job.
NdIndy
New member
I guess be happy you get private pee time
Quotas do exist. Anyone that says otherwise is either lying or playing lawyerball. Every dept calls them something else but they're quotas. Mine calld it "productivity". RegaRdless of the name is in no way linked to anything other than the cities budget and are wrong in every sense. The difference between you being a criminal or not being a criminal shouldn't be decided 8 months ago by the city accountant.
Quotas do exist. Anyone that says otherwise is either lying or playing lawyerball. Every dept calls them something else but they're quotas. Mine calld it "productivity". RegaRdless of the name is in no way linked to anything other than the cities budget and are wrong in every sense. The difference between you being a criminal or not being a criminal shouldn't be decided 8 months ago by the city accountant.